Moderation issues

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jufa
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Moderation issues

Post by jufa »

[split from http://theabsolute.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7697]
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
jufa wrote:I truly understand your position encode, for censorship, and manner of speech to another, by an individual who does not follow the guideline of the board is frustrating. This forum use to be alive. Every post was brisking with answers, now just look for yourself and see how far and in-between post are being posted.
You are taking some effect and invent possible causes. From each ten thousand forums started around 2001-2004, 9999 have perished altogether. It's perfectly okay for this forum to be quiet after it ran its course. If anything, many people stopped visiting because at times the mindlessness and other abuse on display became a bit too much. Or they just had other things to do.
Restriction brings about animosity. Of course this is only my opinion, but is not philosophy a unrestricted venue?
He was not given any restrictions though. He appears to have been running into his own limitation and sensitivities. Also he kept substantially changing his original posts after the conversation already move on. That's a bit odd.

And now suddenly leaving, erasing, removing accounts? I think E.D should have stayed and worked it out, something was bugging him from the start (a passive aggressive thing if you ask me). In general I didn't mind his posts at all. It was unclear what he wanted though, just thinking out loud I suppose.
Diebert, we are not talking about other boards here, we are talking about the Genius Forum. It has survived. it is still up and running. yet, because of attitudes, or dislikes on the moderator part concerning certain individuals, and what they post deemed to be from a high minded person, and spamming post, contrary to the guideline,
Genius does not necessarily discourage or denounce ideas and beliefs, only the false reasoning that underpins them. This is the essence of what serious philosophical inquiry ought be. Overt attempts at spamming or disrupting the board for malicious purposes or continual gratuitous abuse of members will not be tolerated. Other than that the theme is, basically - go for it
banning is an issue, Example:
Message subject: Board warning issued
From: Diebert van Rhijn
Sent: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:17 am
To: jufa
Message

The following is a warning which has been issued to you by an administrator or moderator of this site.
Quote:
Your thread was removed as I consider it spamming. They are just proclamations and you have not shown willingness or capacity(?) to discuss your contributions. Your next attempt will be a permanent ban. Just try once to read and comment on what others are saying, no matter the topic. Come down from your thrown!
This particular warning came because of a political post I posted. Yet, I find when David Quinn resumed posting again after a long absence, his first post was political and degrading to Kevin Solway which is outside of the guidelines: see Statement about Solway and Trump.

I say people stopped visiting because of your censorship and partiality.

Now you say "He [encode_decode] was not given any restrictions though. He appears to have been running into his own limitation and sensitivities. Also he kept substantially changing his original posts after the conversation already move on. That's a bit odd." but you cannot say the same for me, and who knows how many others because of your feelings towards them, and the topic they post. You are the only individual who complained about my post, respond to, and in post, and when I came and went, as well as what you deemed to be my high throne approach.

Be fair to people is all I am saying, don't allow your attitude to become self-righteous towards them. This post may get me banned, but life moves on, or run it course as you stated Diebert.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Farewell Everyone :)

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

jufa wrote: It has survived. it is still up and running. yet, because of attitudes, or dislikes on the moderator part concerning certain individuals, and what they post deemed to be from a high minded person, and spamming post, contrary to the guideline
There have been over the years various moderators active here, all banning, moving threads, closing and even deleting them! Most of it you even haven't seen so you just think it didn't happen. The difference you seem to make here is that you started noticing it when it happened to you or someone whispered to you >I< was doing it from all sinners. Or so it seems.
Me: Your thread was removed as I considered it spamming. They are just proclamations and you have not shown willingness or capacity(?) to discuss your contributions. Your next attempt will be a permanent ban. Just try once to read and comment on what others are saying, no matter the topic. Come down from your thrown!
Yes I deleted the topic "Only vessels” as I considered it spamming since you had started a few more of those already. Note that the exact same text was posted on two other sites by you. And it were not conversations: they looked like pamphlets.

But I admit this happened in a midst of an attempt I made on the forum to raise standards during a time when not much of philosophical value was being posted at all, which I feel qualified to judge. The forum was starting to sink back again in a sea of muddled thought, self-advertising, new-age mumbling and drunken rants. If anyone wants to make the case that trying changing that was not "supposed" to be my task, as if I had some kind of job description, a boring conversation might follow.
You said "He [encode_decode] was not given any restrictions though" ..... but you cannot say the same for me, and who knows how many others because of your feelings towards them, and the topic they post.
But I wasn't talking about anyone else. You do now! You've something bugging you! Which is, of course, fine, to bring it out.
You are the only individual who complained about my post, respond to, and in post, and when I came and went, as well as what you deemed to be my high throne approach.
You've started at least ten threads on this forum where nobody ever reacted on. And another ten where only low quality responses appear from people who were banned by Dan or David at some point (not me! or are those you think "left"?) So we could also say you're so far not attracting a very good audience then.
This post may get me banned, but life moves on, or run it course as you stated Diebert.
As long as you're willing to have a conversation, that would never happen. But I do think you might benefit from some more focus and resistance. Which I'm happy to provide.
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Re: Farewell Everyone :)

Post by jufa »

Diebert, there have been a many threads posted here where no responds came, or few responses. The issue is not whether there is a response, it is are they being read. Low quality or lack of attention is not a subject put in the guidelines of this forum, but "go for it" is.

And of course I am going to speak out when it happens to me. Had other spoke out because of your partiality of who and what is to be posted here according to Diebert, you would have received more agitation to such behavior. I did not respond until now because it was not an open issue for fear of being banned. But it is an issue in this thread, as another post you are actively in right now with another member who also states you are incompetent to "monitor" their post, and was going to write Kevin Solway concerning your moderating.

The guidelines do not say censorship anywhere. And why would you ease drop on what member are posting on other sites? You speak on ten of my post which received little or no response. But you failed to mention the many post of mine, and lengthy of other post I participated in along the way. And should it be noted, all my post are statements, which could be considered spamming from your point of view.

On well, this conversation between you and I have overstated in time. You are the moderator, all I ask is leave your attitude at the door, and be fair. I'm not asking for equality, I'm asking for justice shown towards all members.

I say you should post the article/pamphlet "Only vessels” you depleted [which were not depleted as spamming anywhere else] and let the member decide if you did the right thing. I have voiced myself, and need not go any further here. Thank you for allow me this.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
encode_decode
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Re: Farewell Everyone :)

Post by encode_decode »

@Diebert - Please understand that by raising these concerns we have a much clearer understanding of acceptable behavior on this forum - I never wanted to come here and misbehave - I might have approached it in a rather unorthodox way but now at least I am getting a more defined understanding of what constitutes conversation here.

I have been reading many posts including your own and what I see overall is impressive. There was only a hint of inconsistency to me and that is the only reason I ever made anything of it. I take responsibility of my misinterpretations and endeavor to focus on the main theme of the forum being enlightenment.

Anyhow it seems your are a reasonable person so I have nothing more to add except that I hope we get into good conversations involving enlightenment.

@jufa - I am glad you are still here - I am glad I am still here - I am glad we are all still here.

@Pam Seeback - Let me put this simply as I am very tired through lack of sleep: Thank you :)
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David Quinn
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Re: Farewell Everyone :)

Post by David Quinn »

jufa wrote:This particular warning came because of a political post I posted. Yet, I find when David Quinn resumed posting again after a long absence, his first post was political and degrading to Kevin Solway which is outside of the guidelines: see Statement about Solway and Trump.
That was my fault. I just barged onto the forum after a few years away and began that political thread as though I still owned the place, without considering the views of Diebert and Russell who are now the moderators. They were good enough to indulge me out of respect, but it did place them in an awkward position. I apologize for that. Diebert, if you want to move the thread, then by all means do so. Meanwhile, I'll try and behave like a normal poster.
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Santiago Odo
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Re: The map is not the territory

Post by Santiago Odo »

When Diebert meddles it results in harm done to communication and to the forum environment. I do not participate in meddled threads. ‘Launch away’! ;-)
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Moderation issues

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Your views are noted but since this forum is organized into topics and threads, your requirements for being boundless might not fit the format.

This topic for example is for discussing moderation issues. This is why the post was moved here and you're being notified of it. It's not good when such difficult, personalized discussions "invade" other topics, also out of respect for the topic starter and other participants.

You don't have to agree or even understand. But you need to accept this relatively small thing or simply "leave" again.
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Santiago Odo
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Re: Jordan Peterson

Post by Santiago Odo »

You are so wrapped up in this forum, Diebert, and seduced by the unchecked power of your authority as moderator (which you abuse so obviously, and so continually) that it is you yourself that do the greater harm to the forum. Therefor, and with no other effort to rein you in, I suggest that you undertake a reality check and correct yourself. Your recent ‘moderation’ is not moderation. It is meddling. And meddling is a rather light and neutral word. You can delete posts you do not like but then you allow yourself every right to voice your own — skewed — opinions and let them stand in a given thread after eliminating the comments you do not like. It is over-the-top, Diebert.

Whether you like what I write or don’t, and whether you like or don’t any of the contributors who you have driven from this forum by your bizarre and autocratic *moderation* is irrelevant. It is your opinion and nothing more and you are, like everyone, entitled to it. But you are not entitled to remove other people’s content at your whim nor lord over their contributions.

My purpose here on GF is to continue the intellectual and also spiritual work that was initiated and inspired (in a reactionary sense largely) but those who began this forum. My next effort is going to be a commentary on David’s very important post which, as I see things, is a crucial statement. (I should also point out that at the time that David posted it you had banned my user-name as part of your extended meddling game as you were, then and again now, abusing your powers for personal reasons and driving your dire *enemies* from participation here).

David posted it in the main forum — as he was well to do — and I will continue it in the same locale. The reason is that it demonstrates precisely a man’s relationship with his present as a self-defined spiritual man. That is, his comments and his ideas indicate how his philosophical and also his metaphysical position determines how he relates to and understands the world, the place where he himself is manifest. And indicates a peculiar turn of mind in a later manifestation of ‘liberalism’. The reason I will not simply add items to the existing thread (in the thread I began and which you meddled in you moved the post to ‘worldly affairs’ and then made your typical over-lording comments) is because 1) I have good reasons to *start fresh* and a plan as to how I will proceed, 2) a good deal of time has passed since the hysteria of Trump’s election and new perspectives are available, and 3) my own understanding of things has increased as, over years now, I have researched titles, gotten hold of them, read them. Whether you understand it or not, you dope, my interests supercede your own postmodern limitations. It is, in my view, of quintessential importance to *answer* David’s concerns, which is also to respond to the astoundingly powerful liberalizing drive that has infested all our thinking, from material and political and social areas all the way up to so-called ‘spiritual zones’.

The ‘threat’ I make is only that if you meddle and abuse the authority of the moderator you leave people — me in this case — no option but to retire from participation. You would do well to mediate on what it is to deal with you — you as Spider-Moderator — who can disappear comments, move posts around, bring people into the humiliating postion of having to argue their case in the Kafkaesque ‘Help Desk’, and do this with no fair-minded rhyme or reason but simply because Genius Form has been made into Diebert’s Personal Forum, an extension of your philosophical neurosis. Your lack of integrity in this role is disgusting. This is not to say that you do not perform many moderator’s tasks that are good and helpful, you do. But your excessive intervention is completely inappropriate and you should control it on your own. And that is how you play it. You give your *personal enemies* no choice but to retire as so many have. Thus, you destroy the forum and do not help it.

I write this with no interest at all, ever, to engage with you in rabbit-hole debate with you as Moderator; not here, not in PMs or emails, and definitely not down in your Spider-Den-of-Death, the Help Desk. I write this to clarify my relationship with what I do here and in all my writing. It is not up for debate. I cannot control what you do but I heartily suggest that you bite your tongue and keep your comments to yourself. The only reason I have written out what I just have is because your inapprpriate actions force a statement like this to be made.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Moderation issues

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Sure, start any thread you want on David's original anti-Solway-Trump thread and fire away!

If you really feel it belongs in the main philosophy forum, that's fine. And perhaps it does. But it would make more sense to just add to the existing topic there, as people have notification on it and might be interested in additions. Otherwise I envision threads just there to comment on a thread which was started just to comment on another thread and so on. Seems to me superfluous but I'm not going to meddle to that extent.

You can even weave every topic of the world into your "own" threads, I do not care. Just do not bring it all multi-page sized inside another topic started on eg Peterson or Causality. In my view it's a simple request, nothing ominous or personal behind it.
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Santiago Odo
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Re: Moderation issues

Post by Santiago Odo »

The absurdity in what you say is that you did not remove your own posts from that thread, just mine. You give yourself the right to make any sort of comment you wish but then you can remove or erase other people’s posts at your whim. It is an abuse of moderation rights. And though I would not ask for it and do not want you to remove any posts written by anyone, ever, yet Jupi’s inane post remains, inspired by your meddling.

That is what the result of your improper moderation is. You set a bad standard.

Your entire relationship to everything I write, and things other people have written, became obviously personal ... except to you. You just will not see that. What I write, why I write, is of no concern to you. If you have anything to say about the ideas I express, express them in that place. But stop this transparent game of writing what you desire to but removing the responses that you don’t like. I assume that you have no sense of what it is like to be on the receiving end of it. You should gain that sense.

Your meddling in the Peterson thread was unnecessary and was motivated not by any desire to *help* or to contribute, despite what you say, and the result of it, as has always been the case, is stopping on-going conversations. Every time you meddle, the same results. Therefor, one concludes that the purpose of your meddling is to stop conversations you do not like. That is what happened in the Peterson thread and you have no right and no business to intervene. That is bad moderation.

You meddled where and when you should not have and had no right nor privelage to do so. And the result is as you desire: the chilling of speech and expression that you do not like. That is a very *personal* issue and your relationship is therefor personal, not objective.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Moderation issues

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

It's unclear where you are referring to exactly. Only some posts addressing the moderator or moderation directly have been moved & replied on here as not to meddle with someone else's thread. Your analysis of the situation appears as completely overblown, hypersensitive & overestimating your own significance perhaps but surely overselling the importance of this forum or tiny adjustments to the overall discussion format.

The idea of any "chilling" of speech seems rather baseless. You are actually getting fired up by it. For the rest I think there are only crickets. Unless you went to dig up that fantasy again that the forum was once a thriving place without moderation by anyone until I came along. Let me say it again, never has this forum enjoyed less moving, deleting of posts & threads and banning. It's also very quiet but that was already before I was asked to moderate it. The reasons for the forum becoming "chill" are complex and is very much linked to the normal development cycles of these type of affairs.

Personally I do like the quiet. Once in a while a spat or two; it's another stage. Perhaps tomorrow a founder moves in and closes the place. Fine with me although I do like the occasional life sign of some stranger or a regular. And in tiny doses even you!
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Foolish warning for God knows what!

Post by Queen Solomon 1 »

She stuck her middle finger up at his foolish warning of God knows what that was.
He must think he's teaching a class of followers eh! You know like students who only follow and don't have what it takes to lead. I lead myself, put that in your pipe and smoke it! I won't tolerate inferiority to lead me.

She deals with inferior behavior on a regular basis, (He's no different) she can no longer expect pearls from swine. She decides not to "throw pearls to swine any longer. They simply don't know what realism is nor appreciate it when they're confronted by reality. It's as though some realities cannot shine their light with brighter lights. Some shine a dimmer light while the brighter light can shine with all lights.

She bids her farewell never to return again not even to touch base with a hello. She'll come once more when she's dying and only to say goodbye Geniasses.

"Take your "Warning" and shove it, I ain't coming here no more"


Donna Thompson Queen Solomon 1st

---------------
GodsDaughter1 in 2011 wrote:I will disassociate myself with Genius Forum once-and-for-all because if I stick around here I can expect inferior frivilous bullshit to continue.

I can say goodbye to Genius Forum now, because I've grown to accept rejection here, so essentially I'm saying goodbye to the rejection.

(...) I'm not blaming this place, I'm blaming myself for putting myself in a situation that is difficult for me to handle.

--source
Last edited by Diebert van Rhijn on Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: added some old history
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Santiago Odo
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Re: Moderation issues

Post by Santiago Odo »

Ooooh. This is a new twist. And how fun! Now, our Spidery Moderator feels entitled to post within other’s posts!

Will this become a feature just here, in the Spider’s Prison? or is this a right you give yourself across the board, as it were?

;-)
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Moderation issues

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Quoting someone in ones own post? Perhaps as absurd as the striking similarity between Donna's protest and your own. Dog days.
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Santiago Odo
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Re: Moderation issues

Post by Santiago Odo »

And that is not the point. The point is that you have been seduced by moderator's powers and that you abuse them (and there is no one to stop you).

That is all you need to succeed in looking at Madame Spider. It might be Donna today, me tomorrow, Brokenhead, Jufa, Laila ...

It is a looooonnggg list of your Favorite Enemies, n'est-ce pas Old Bean?

Any of this making sense?
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Santiago Odo
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Re: The ‘Solway Statement’, revisited

Post by Santiago Odo »

OK, that's it. Diebert, I am taking this down to the SPIDER'S PIT / HELP DESK! You've gone too far this time. Too far. It cannot be tolerated! Consider this a 'board warning'.
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Santiago Odo
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Meddling

Post by Santiago Odo »

I just want to politely make mention of the fact that when you meddle in the threads, Brother Diebert, you destroy them.

Every time.

And you do that for that purpose.

Your meddling does not serve a creative purpose.
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Avolith
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Re: Meddling

Post by Avolith »

Santiago Odo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:36 am I just want to politely make mention of the fact that when you meddle in the threads, Brother Diebert, you destroy them.

Every time.

And you do that for that purpose.

Your meddling does not serve a creative purpose.
I personally don't mind that the thread went into a discussion on Trump, but isn't it obvious that a discussion on trump is a worldly matter outside of the main focus of the forum, and was also off-topic for the thread?

I could just as well claim that you destroyed the thread (about a tao te ching verse) by discussing Trump in it.
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Re: Meddling

Post by Santiago Odo »

As far as I am aware I did not bring up Trump at any point. What I did bring up is perhaps encapsulated here:
Well, there you have a general outline. We are at a very odd juncture in our civilization. In my view this is the first order of business and where consciousness needs to be focused. We need to bring life back into ourselves by connecting with ourselves as living, incarnated beings, and to pursue those projects that are part of our life and of life. This is part of the reversal of nihilistic death- and suicide-process (that is what nihilism results in). This too requires expository amplification. So, the actual direction to go is 180 degrees in opposition to the outline David neurotically offers! I mean this literally. I said that I would 'rewrite Genius Forum' and re-ground it on a proper base. I have done it. It is just a question of following through.
I believe -- and can successfully argue -- that spiritual life must encompass a range of different things that you and others might classify as mundane.

When I am seen as 'disruptive' it is because I mention these things.

I 'politely mention' that Diebert has a controlling streak. He cannot do else but *clean up* a thread because some aspect of it disturbs his sensibilities about what is appropriate and non-appropriate in a given conversation.

Inevitably it destroys the movement of the thread and usually brings the conversations there to a close.

And I have determined this is what he desires. It is one down side of a controlling nature.

Best to let things develop and flow as they will.
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Avolith
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Re: Meddling

Post by Avolith »

Santiago Odo wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:35 am As far as I am aware I did not bring up Trump at any point. What I did bring up is perhaps encapsulated here:
Well, there you have a general outline. We are at a very odd juncture in our civilization. In my view this is the first order of business and where consciousness needs to be focused. We need to bring life back into ourselves by connecting with ourselves as living, incarnated beings, and to pursue those projects that are part of our life and of life. This is part of the reversal of nihilistic death- and suicide-process (that is what nihilism results in). This too requires expository amplification. So, the actual direction to go is 180 degrees in opposition to the outline David neurotically offers! I mean this literally. I said that I would 'rewrite Genius Forum' and re-ground it on a proper base. I have done it. It is just a question of following through.
I believe -- and can successfully argue -- that spiritual life must encompass a range of different things that you and others might classify as mundane.

When I am seen as 'disruptive' it is because I mention these things.

I 'politely mention' that Diebert has a controlling streak. He cannot do else but *clean up* a thread because some aspect of it disturbs his sensibilities about what is appropriate and non-appropriate in a given conversation.

Inevitably it destroys the movement of the thread and usually brings the conversations there to a close.

And I have determined this is what he desires. It is one down side of a controlling nature.

Best to let things develop and flow as they will.
The death of one thing is the birth of another, and you could also take your own advice when you say it's best to let things develop and flow as they will
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Re: Meddling

Post by Santiago Odo »

I could say that, and indeed that is the only choice possible. But I suggest -- politely of course -- that on a forum like this it is best not to deliberately kill a thread.

Your logic would be -- is -- that it might be best to kill a topic so that a new one will develop.

Why not 'kill' all of them then? And the forum?

And let things start anew?
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Avolith
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Re: Meddling

Post by Avolith »

Santiago Odo wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:38 am I could say that, and indeed that is the only choice possible. But I suggest -- politely of course -- that on a forum like this it is best not to deliberately kill a thread.

Your logic would be -- is -- that it might be best to kill a topic so that a new one will develop.

Why not 'kill' all of them then? And the forum?

And let things start anew?
You should regard my post as countering your one valid argument against breaking the thread, which was 'it is best to let things flow as they will'
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Meddling

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

The particular side-discussion had simply come to its natural conclusion and this action was even announced around a week ago.

Is any effort towards such judgment and creating boundaries a form of destruction to someone somewhere? I guess it could.

In any case there's only one person in the history of this forum who has ever voiced complaints about polite, tender, carefully weighed transfusions of a few posts to another section. And others have voiced even a clear positive reaction after similar actions.

Perhaps it should be examined why it feels to bad, so personal, so evil when a man, in error or not, draws up some boundary.
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Re: Meddling

Post by Santiago Odo »

Far simpler: choose not to meddle.
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Re: Meddling

Post by Pam Seeback »

Alex, confession time, you have a secret bromance-crush on Diebert. Why else would you stalk him as you do?
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