EVER BANGED A CHEAP PROSTITUTE?

[pierdog]

Why would any man waste more than a short paragraph trying to reason with a woman on a forum dedicated to masculine virtue? In more virtuous times when men were virtuous, she'd be lucky to avoid a bitch-slap to the mouth for talking back bc women can't recognize their own banality or their errors, neither can men who take them seriously, hence they lack virtue.

[Kelly Jones]

According to wikipedia, German prostitutes actually prefer being called whores (hure), because prostitute is a bureaucratic term. Apparently the word "whore" derives from an old term that translated means "desire", so "whore" is not misleading, and not necessarily pejorative.

So for all those posters here getting twitchy about the use of the word "whore", try to disengage your moral indignation about the word, and look at pierdog's attitude to prostitution instead. That is, he refuses to satiate his lust hypocritically, such as by having sex with a woman he doesn't care about personally but whom would be unwilling to have sex with him consistently if she wasn't getting something in return, e.g. the message she is loved and looked after. Compared to that alternative, his decision is quite reasonable. He's not lying, and the woman gets what she asks for in return.

Most women who are having sex with a single partner would refuse to do so if they weren't given promises and signs of affection and care. Many women are duped this way. Why are they so foolish as to negotiate for sex in a way that always leaves them open to getting a bad deal? How can you really know if someone cares about you, or is only offering cupboard love? Yet women set the situation up so that the exchange is always ambiguous, then complain that it's the man's fault for duping them.

So prostitution is simply an open exchange, where there is no ambiguity, and both parties know what is expected. There is no dreamy promise of unconditional love (which is impossible anyway for egotists). So there is no disappointment.

Unfortunately, this is wholly hypothetical. In reality, a prostitute is a person used to satiate another's physical desires (e.g. sex, intimacy, touch, feelings of excitement, etc.) and sex isn't the only thing people use prostitutes for. Masseuses, for instance, aren't far remote from sex services. Geriatric nurses and diversional therapists often use touch, massage, and emotional arousal to make their old dementia patients feel "loved". A personal trainer hyping up their client to push their body harder, telling them that pain feels good, is also being used to help satiate physical desires, and the egotistical desire to be praised. A florist for funeral services or romantic gifts is often employed for their "emotional intelligence" and ability to sell flowers that satiate emotional needs. There are whores all over the place. So the situation becomes more ambiguous: people are using services ostensibly for practical aims, but in reality the services are egotistical: truly, desire industry.

So if you don't use a prostitute, then you can cast the first stone at pierdog. Otherwise, really, shut up.

.

[guest_of_logic]

Carmel: We live in a misogynistic society, Diebert..or hadn't you noticed?

Diebert: And this forum is one of the places that isn't. Or hadn't you noticed?

Why would any man waste more than a short paragraph trying to reason with a woman on a forum dedicated to masculine virtue? In more virtuous times when men were virtuous, she'd be lucky to avoid a bitch-slap to the mouth for talking back bc women can't recognize their own banality or their errors, neither can men who take them seriously, hence they lack virtue.

pierdog: she'd be lucky to avoid a bitch-slap to the mouth for talking back

Diebert: Or hadn't you noticed?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

dream on... She might be beat senseless on a regular basis, by her pimp or sociopathic, sadistic men. I don't understand why you're still trying to romanticize the situation.

That sounds more like TV.

Such beatings, as well as human trafficking or hooker addictions are related to the criminalized environment some prostitution is forced to take place in. You cannot make the case that it's something inherent to prostitutes. Many spouses are beaten senseless by sociopath husbands. Now if you want to make a case about the nature of marriage based on that, be my guest!

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Why would any man waste more than a short paragraph trying to reason with a woman on a forum dedicated to masculine virtue?

When it comes to prostitution, I've always been much of a talker. And one can take that [up] anyway one likes!

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Diebert: Or hadn't you noticed?

And pierdog represents this forum, how? His frustration is real enough, although slapping would never stop your banalities, Laird. You'd just come back for more of the same. In that respect pierdog is wrong; those virtuous times contained plenty of virtuous women. Being slapped, or worse, was the fate of anyone speaking outside the limits imposed by his or her class.

[guest_of_logic]

And pierdog represents this forum, how?

He represents the seething underbelly of the forum. You'd have to have your head in the sand not to have noticed it.

slapping would never stop your banalities, Laird. You'd just come back for more of the same.

Diebert, you hide your banalities under a veneer of sophistication: that you would slap seems entirely appropriate. God forbid you would punch out a direct thought, unladen with sophistry.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

And pierdog represents this forum, how?

He represents the seething underbelly of the forum.

He certainly shows he's got the stomach. With a bit more head a full human might rise up!

God forbid you would punch out a direct thought, unladen with sophistry.

Before a stomach, one needs first a spine. How about that? Too advanced perhaps?

[jupiviv]

It's no surprise that the worldly matters forum is even more insane than the main forum.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

I was referring to the chronic accusations by many men that women are whores.

And that's considered a hateful remark because of the "inherent judgment" you perceive it to contain? Many men are faced with the reality of having to give or demonstrate some wealth and impressions of security before sexual acts or loyalty [the bonding which sex seeks to affirm] is coming back to them. It's nature at work, no misogyny. You can give it different names or list the many exceptions but it's how most of the world still works, no matter what progressives claim has changed. A truly insane "worldly matter", indeed.

[Tomas]

Kelly:

So if you don't use a prostitute, then you can cast the first stone at pierdog. Otherwise, really, shut up.

lol Thanks Kelly. You can shut your hole now. You've whored out to the medical community who you let diagnose you with mental disability in exchange for the dole. ---I haven't been with a prostitute, I guess I should really smash pierdog, in case he's used to bitch-slapping.

Lots of shiftless people inhabit this forum. Barack Obama would be proud! Kelly appears to be liking getting fucked by the government in exchange for receiving a handout. Great, claim you're mentally deficient (a nutcase) in exchange for welfare for life.

Out goes masculine-feminine thinking. Kind of a gay, bisexual in drag. Don't know if you are a boy or a girl. What a mask. Run with whatever the government tells you to be. Sad.

Pierdog sounds like a real-life degenerate. Born loser. Probably wouldn't even help his birth mother out of the gutter.

[Carmel]

Diebert:
That sounds more like TV.

Carmel:
Yes, a tv documentary. I saw a documentary about the human slave trade in which journalists who, under the pretense of seeking the company of prostitutes, using hidden cameras, filmed the conditions under which they lived...and died. Their souls die bit by bit under the horrid conditions which they are repeatedly exposed to. Some of the abducted women/children were chained to furniture or bed posts to prevent them from running away, they're abused regularly and severely... Some were rescued and taken to a shelter which specialized in rehabilition. Upon arrival, they looked like zombies, they had completely mentally dissociated, a psychological defense mechanism, which once complete, is difficult to reverse. After about a year of therapy and, yes LOVE, from the therapists and other recovered victims, most of the women are able to laugh again.

Diebert:
Such beatings, as well as human trafficking or hooker addictions are related to the criminalized environment some prostitution is forced to take place in.

Carmel:
In America, most prostitution takes place in cheap hotels and back alleyways. Drugs, disease and violence are rampant. It must be very different where you live.

Diebert:
You cannot make the case that it's something inherent to prostitutes.

Carmel:
I can and I did.

Diebert:
Many spouses are beaten senseless by sociopath husbands. Now if you want to make a case about the nature of marriage based on that, be my guest!

Carmel:
Sure, it'd be an easy case to make, in fact, we may have a future wife beater in this very forum...and you're supporting this low life loser. You're only as good as the company you keep and there's more than one way to whore yourself, Diebert. You're whoring your soul out.. for what? To keep the dynamic of bigotry firmly in place? I hope it's worth it.

[guest_of_logic]

He certainly shows he's got the stomach.

You only destroy your already weak objection, phrased as a question: as a "mainstream" forum contributor, here you are supporting a darker current of the forum without qualification. There's no question about representing the forum anymore. But that's just your thing: you object reflexively to any real or perceived criticism of this forum or its philosophy, without first considering the merits of the criticism. It has to be spelt out to you.

Before a stomach, one needs first a spine.

It doesn't take spine to imply that women who "talk back" ought to be slapped, nor that doing so would be "virtuous", nor to implicitly affirm both of those assertions. Quite the opposite.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Yes, a tv documentary....slave trade... horrid conditions...

Are you serious? You're changing the whole scope and subject of the discussion. There's no point in pursuing this avenue that way.

In America, most prostitution takes place in cheap hotels and back alleyways. Drugs, disease and violence are rampant. It must be very different where you live.

Yes, and that's the point. It's different everywhere but the prostitution element remains fairly the same.

... we may have a future wife beater in this very forum...

How dramatic! My concern is with the truth in what's being said, not speculation. Pierdog is right about the danger of wasting time reasoning with women who will keep shifting the terms and are not 'fixed' or grounded in discussions like this. He's also right it's near impossible for women to recognize their banality in these circumstances. His description of more virtuous times where they could get slapped is ambiguous to me. The virtuous men in this scenario would be responsible for the virtue of their women. If they lacked in this, I'd say it's the failing of these not-so-virtuous-after-all men. Personally I've come to learn to be careful before judging other times and cultures. It would certainly be unwise to suggest one could lift practices of older times and apply them now. I'm not hearing Pierdog say that but I'd not get wound up about it either if he did. There are way more serious and further reaching delusions to counter.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

here you are supporting a darker current of the forum without qualification

You've no idea how pitch black it is where I'm swimming. Your hinting at some tinted currents mean nothing to me.

[Tomas]

So prostitution is simply an open exchange, where there is no ambiguity, and both parties know what is expected. There is no dreamy promise of unconditional love (which is impossible anyway for egotists). So there is no disappointment..

Mental disability? For real or just a blowjob for your social worker?

Okay, this is why you decided to get laid by the government. For a sweaty wad of cash every month?

You prostitute..

[Kelly Jones]

Kelly: So prostitution is simply an open exchange, where there is no ambiguity, and both parties know what is expected. There is no dreamy promise of unconditional love (which is impossible anyway for egotists). So there is no disappointment.

Unfortunately, this is wholly hypothetical. In reality, a prostitute is a person used to satiate another's physical desires (e.g. sex, intimacy, touch, feelings of excitement, etc.) and sex isn't the only thing people use prostitutes for. Masseuses, for instance, aren't far remote from sex services. Geriatric nurses and diversional therapists often use touch, massage, and emotional arousal to make their old dementia patients feel "loved". A personal trainer hyping up their client to push their body harder, telling them that pain feels good, is also being used to help satiate physical desires, and the egotistical desire to be praised. A florist for funeral services or romantic gifts is often employed for their "emotional intelligence" and ability to sell flowers that satiate emotional needs. There are whores all over the place. So the situation becomes more ambiguous: people are using services ostensibly for practical aims, but in reality the services are egotistical: truly, desire industry.

So if you don't use a prostitute, then you can cast the first stone at pierdog. Otherwise, really, shut up.

dejavu: lol Thanks Kelly. You can shut your hole now. You've whored out to the medical community who you let diagnose you with mental disability in exchange for the dole.

This is total rubbish. I knew, and still know, that the majority of people - if they knew me - would regard anyone with such a purpose, and views, as mine, to be insane. They would agree that a person like me has a serious disability, even though I do not have one. This situation means I can not pursue my purpose within society. It's as simple as that. I would not be able to interact with people as efficiently as I do. Therefore, I accepted the truth, and told it to representatives of society, who agreed to make room for one such as me. I have not once desired any satiation of desire. If you disagree, read again what I wrote about prostitution.

But then, I don't really expect you to understand. You are only too happy to get on your moral high-horse when it suits you, and then pretend you are joking as soon as you realise what mistakes you are making.

pierdog: Why would any man waste more than a short paragraph trying to reason with a woman on a forum dedicated to masculine virtue? In more virtuous times when men were virtuous, she'd be lucky to avoid a bitch-slap to the mouth for talking back bc women can't recognize their own banality or their errors, neither can men who take them seriously, hence they lack virtue.

dejavu: Virtue! Sweet virtue. The strength of street-knowledge. A few people are talking about it dog, how old is your girl?

I don't think you can identify a person through their words, but have leapt to a conclusion based on your own desire to belittle.

pierdog seems the type who would probably not attempt to reason philosophically with a sex worker, though he might like to express a diluted form of his views, a little like the character in Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment".* I don't think he would even want to employ a sex worker who had an obstreperous personality. So it's pretty obvious to me that pierdog would never hit a female, but would think this kind of thing beneath him, though he might hit a male. He's not wise, but he has rare insight into human psychology and the egotistical nature of most human interactions.

.

[edit: *Note. The young girl, the daughter of his drunken friend who let her become as a prostitute to pay off drinking debts, was a quiet, submissive character, only too eager to help her parents financially by dropping into a domain of filth. Yet she remained completely invulnerable to that filth, being a religioius manic. Raskolnikov's interest in her was as someone who was forced by impecuniousness into an existence outside standard morality, like himself, but who remained the same morally coherent and dignified person. In other words, neither of them were actually degraded by their status, one as prostitute, the other as murderer, but were able to see a deeper reality: that they themselves had a higher morality through accepting the dysfunctionality of their society, than those who fitted-in to it and claimed to be "clean" and "moral".]

[pierdog]

Thanks Diebert & Kelly! Your assessments of me are accurate and largely correct, a big surprise especially coming from a woman! In fact, they are the most accurate out of any judgement ever made about me online...maybe even ever.

[Kelly Jones]

dejavu: You've whored out to the medical community who you let diagnose you with mental disability in exchange for the dole.

Kelly: This is total rubbish. I knew, and still know, that the majority of people - if they knew me - would regard anyone with such a purpose, and views, as mine, to be insane. They would agree that a person like me has a serious disability, even though I do not have one. This situation means I can not pursue my purpose within society. It's as simple as that. I would not be able to interact with people as efficiently as I do. Therefore, I accepted the truth, and told it to representatives of society, who agreed to make room for one such as me.

dejavu: lol

In other words, you've whored out to the medical community to whom you let yourself be diagnosed with mental disability in exchange for the dole.

Explain how my decision to become enlightened and help others become enlightened deliberately aims to satisfy a psychiatrist's desires, rather than the opposite. Explain how a psychiatrist's inability to reason, or to recognise the importance of wisdom, is what my life aims to support and promote, rather than the opposite. If you can't do this, then you don't have a leg to stand on.

.

[Tomas]

It's no surprise that the worldly matters forum is even more insane than the main forum.

Hmmm, missed this one.

Yes, this thread is about 50/50 of people on psychiatric drugs. Of the remaining 50%, it's 50/50 of people who refuse to hold down a tax-paying job to support the remaining people who have never held down a job because they claim they cannot fit in to society based on their 'rules of the game'. Finally, another 50/50 of the remaining people who have concluded that it is best to have a job and bless (be thankful for) their food before every meal knowing that they bought the food with their own hard-earned money the old-fashioned way .. by working for it.

I think it was Carl G who said something along the lines 'that most people here are short on work-related skills but are top-notch on Enlightenment'. I guess for them they believe that money does indeed grow on trees. Their mind is so deluded that they don't realize they are the reason why the world is overpopulated.

[Carmel]

Diebert:
Are you serious?

Carmel:
Yes, I expected an apathetic response. It's too much ugly, reality for you to face the oppression of fellow human beings. Some of the slaves are young boys...do you care now, or are you dead inside?

Diebert:
You're changing the whole scope and subject of the discussion. There's no point in pursuing this avenue that way.

Carmel:
Yes, that does happens quite often in discussion forums. This certainly isn't the first time. You made a claim. I refuted it. It rather seemed like the logical thing to do.

Anyway, What avenue would you like to pursue?
Continuing to conflate the ego of your bigoted friend. That's the point of this thread. He's not here to learn about enlightment or Ultimate Reality...or hadn't you noticed?

Diebert:
Yes, and that's the point. It's different everywhere but the prostitution element remains fairly the same.

Carmel:
A one dimensional, shallow person would see it that way. Sexuality is one of many facets of both genders. So what? Why do you keep spinning in way that appears to be a negative judgement about women, but not men?

Diebert:
How dramatic! My concern is with the truth in what's being said, not speculation.

Carmel:
It's not dramatic at all. He's showing his true colors, but you refuse to look at the ugly reality of it. The men here who possess integrity, Tomas, dejavu, Laird see it quite clearly.

Diebert:
Pierdog is right about the danger of wasting time reasoning with women who will keep shifting the terms and are not 'fixed' or grounded in discussions like this.

Carmel:
Pierdog has not demonstrated any capacity for logical debate or desire to become "enlightened" whatsoever. He's here for the bigotry. He'd be better served to discuss his problems at a forum for sex addicts, than one for enlightment.

..and preemptively, I'll say that his inability to keep it in his pants is his own cross to bear as I already know, you'll try to blame WOMAN for HIS failings and weaknesses, in this case, greed, lust and the need to feed his ego, by indulging his pathetic and pathological need to have power over a woman, even if for only 1/2 hour. I almost feel sorry for the weak willed lil' creature...almost, but not quite.

Diebert:
He's also right it's near impossible for women to recognize their banality in these circumstances. His description of more virtuous times where they could get slapped is ambiguous to me.

Carmel:
Is it ambiguous to you? It isn't to me and several others. It's glaringly obvious what he meant, but again, you refuse to recognize it for what it is.

Diebert:
The virtuous men in this scenario would be responsible for the virtue of their women. If they lacked in this, I'd say it's the failing of these not-so-virtuous-after-all men.

Carmel:
I'd say you're wrong. Women are responsible for their own virtue, unless of course, they're forcibly abducted and chained to furniture by sociopathic men. In which case, it's most definitely the failing of the "not-so-virtuous-after-all men".

Women are much stronger(internally) than you seem to think. Women's strength doesn't manifest in the same way that a man's does, but it most definitely exists...and always has...and I'm not just referring to modern women.

Diebert:
There are way more serious and further reaching delusions to counter.

Carmel:
There most certainly are. ;)

[Dan Rowden]

You know, what might be taken from this discussion, and others like it of late, is that women, speaking in general terms, seem to have little capacity to discuss anything per se. Not a single female (including dejavu who is a bigger girl than anyone else here), other than Kelly, has been able to discuss prostitution in any pure, conceptual sense. It's as though their emotional selves - which may well be the only one they have from the look of things - takes over and runs off on all sorts of irrelevant, or at least highly tangential paths. This is utterly typical of how the female mind works - it constantly makes connections that are emotional and not conceptual/logical, and it wrongly holds these connections to be of the latter kind.

If one asks the question of the ethical status of prostitution - per se, it is neither helpful, pertinent or rational to start pontificating on the various injustices and abuses that exist within that "industry". Such musings are 100% irrelevant to the question at hand. It is quite astonishing, and more than a little bit depressing, that the females here cannot seem to comprehend this. If I was to go back and point out the myriad and glaring logical fallacies in these posts it would take me a week.

That injustices and abuses exist within the rubric that is prostitution is a given. It is a fact that is not in dispute. It does not require attention within the scope of the question at hand.

If pierdog is involved in a non-abusive, non-exploitative transaction (in the sense of power dynamics), then that is all that needs to be discussed. All this other stuff is just histrionics for the sake of it.

[Carmel]

Dan:

If pierdog is involved in a non-abusive, non-exploitative transaction (in the sense of power dynamics), then that is all that needs to be discussed.

Carmel:
Good, then this thread is done right? Pierdog continues "banging the cheap prostitute". No more discussions. If it were that simple, Dan, he would never have posted in the first place. He wouldn't be asking the men here for their opinion of his exploits. He would be happily whoring it up, no discussion necessary.

Also, if his problems were merely a concern of physical relief, he could simply masturbate. As I expressed already, he clearly is having psychological/ego needs met, as well, by seeing the prostitute. It gives him a sense of power over women. Talking about hitting women gives him this same sense of power. In summary, he feels powerless over women, and tries to relieve this with his bigoted statements and his whoring.

[Dan Rowden]

Dan:

If pierdog is involved in a non-abusive, non-exploitative transaction (in the sense of power dynamics), then that is all that needs to be discussed.

Carmel:
Good, then this thread is done right?

It is unless you're able to say something relevant, like offer a per se moral objection to prostitution. That I'd be interested in because I think it's possible to have one.

Pierdog continues "banging the cheap prostitute". No more discussions. If it were that simple, Dan, he would never have posted in the first place. He wouldn't be asking the men here for their opinion of his exploits. He would be happily whoring it up, no discussion necessary.

Indeed. Nevertheless, the discussion has mostly been gratuitous tangents somewhat transparently designed to impugn his character, when that is hardly necessary. Why not just limit the scope of the discussion to the moral dimensions applicable to what he's actually doing? Could we do that? I'd be all for it, really.

Also, if his problems were merely a concern of physical relief, he could simply masturbate.

That is a good point. His need for sex is self-evidently not just about physical relief or pleasure. But then, it hardly ever is, right?

As I expressed already, he clearly is having psychological/ego needs met, as well, by seeing the prostitute.

That's a given, and at least relevant material to discuss.

It gives him a sense of power over women.

Ah, sexual power dynamics! Now you're talkin'! Actually, it's debatable that it does this. You realise, right, that his need for female attention places the power with the woman? You realise as well that many, perhaps most prostitutes intuitively know this? i.e. women generally intuitively know this?

Talking about hitting women gives him this same sense of power.

Well, I sometimes feel like slapping hysterical women too. Men as well, for that matter, but those buggers can hit back even harder...

In summary, he feels powerless over women, and tries to relieve this with his bigoted statements and his whoring.

I don't think that much stock can be placed in his rhetorical devices. You'd have to be psychic to divine anything real from that and I know you're not. As for his whoring, well, that is a consequence of his need for female contact, which would include not just the pleasure of sex but things like validation and all that jazz. Men who use prostitutes are most emphatically not in a position of power.

I don't know whether this is funny or not, but I initially misspelled "jazz". Nah, maybe it's not.

[Carmel]

Dan:

Indeed. Nevertheless, the discussion has mostly been gratuitous tangents somewhat transparently designed to impugn his character, when that is hardly necessary. Why not just limit the scope of the discussion to the moral dimensions applicable to what he's actually doing? Could we do that? I'd be all for it, really.

Carmel:
Sure Dan, I'd be all for it too. I'd also be all for not being callled a "twat" by pierdog and prefer that he stopped making unsubstantiated ad hominen attacks against women. Can he do that? can he? Really, that would be terrific.

Dan:
That is a good point. His need for sex is self-evidently not just about physical relief or pleasure. But then, it hardly ever is, right?

Carmel:
agreed

Dan:
Ah, sexual power dynamics! Now you're talkin'! Actually, it's debatable that it does this. You realise, right, that his need for female attention places the power with the woman?

Carmel:
Yes, I realize this, but it's his "need" which should be the object of discussion. If he wants to continue to give his power away to women, then fine, but he needs to man up and stop blaming women for his own weakness.

Dan:
You realise as well that many, perhaps most prostitutes intuitively know this? i.e. women generally intuitively know this?

Carmel:
yes, women know that many men are slaves to their animal instincts...but, here's a secret. Women find men sexy. Do you guys really not know this? Not all of the power lies with the women.

Dan:
Well, I sometimes feel like slapping hysterical women too. Men as well, for that matter, but those buggers can hit back even harder...

Carmel:
yes, I can relate to this. I sometimes feel like smacking Diebert when he inundates me with his convoluted evasions, girlish prose and duplicitous speech. :)

Dan:
As for his whoring, well, that is a consequence of his need for female contact, which would include not just the pleasure of sex but things like validation and all that jazz. Men who use prostitutes are most emphatically not in a position of power.

Carmel:
I agree completely that he is not in a position of power, but does he know that?

Dan:
I don't know whether this is funny or not, but I initially misspelled "jazz". Nah, maybe it's not.

Carmel:
lol! good one. ;)