A Dialogue on the Sexes, by the Sexes, for the Sexes
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:27 pm
A Dialogue on the Sexes, by the Sexes, for the Sexes.
by Scott
Feb 22nd, 2004
April and Scott are talking about marriage…
April says:
It’s possible to be self-sufficient, right?
Scotty says:
It’s possible, if that's what you really want.
April says:
Oh, who really knows what they want? It changes all the time.
Scotty says:
My wants don't change really.
April says:
Maybe when it stops changing, maybe that's when you're ready [for marriage]. Hey, good for you!
Scotty says:
I don't know if it stops changing for most women.
April says:
Well, good for me because I’m a girl.
Scotty says:
lol....
April says:
If it never stops changing for women, then how come it's the men that go through mid-life crises?
Scotty says:
They don't want to die.
April says:
Women don't want to die...
Scotty says:
On realization that you're getting old, you try and be young again, or to live. Women don't go through crises?
April says:
I don't know! Women might go through some sort of crisis, but I honestly believe they are so attached to their husbands at that point that they'd never think of going all crazy.
Scotty says:
I don't know; a lot of women cheat a lot. Don't they?
April says:
Some girls do. The majority don't.
Scotty says:
Why don't they? And why do the ones that do, do?
April says:
Because women are pretty loyal.
Scotty says:
Are you sure?
April says:
The ones that cheat; they're selfish, have no morals...and basically, I think they're immature.
Scotty says:
I think most women are selfish, have no morals, and are immature. No one has proven me wrong yet. Maybe you; still, I don't know you well enough.
April says:
Well, I can't argue against the selfish thing. Of course I’m selfish. I mean if I really loved a guy, I wouldn't cheat on him because the aftereffects would be damaging to our relationship, and therefore I’d suffer a lot, especially from guilt. But I also think if I really loved the guy, I wouldn't be thinking about other guys. I tend to get tunnel vision; but I do think I have morals…the maturity thing...I’m working on that. I don't think most women are immature, selfish and lacking morals.
Scotty says:
Based on evidence, I do, but I guess I just don't know women, and I only know girls.
April says:
Then you're hanging out with the wrong girls.
Scotty says:
Well no, mostly all of them are like that.
April says:
I really don't think...a lot of girls I know are like that. Some yes, but.
Scotty says:
They don't base their decisions on how they feel?
April says:
How is that related to immaturity?
Scotty says:
If at one moment, they feel they like a person, and the next they stop liking them...it’s immoral and immature. Well, at least if they act on their momentary feelings
April says:
Men do that more than women.
Scotty says:
What evidence do you have for that?
April says:
Guys will like a girl and she will, um, please them. The next day he's like "I’m out of this".
Scotty says:
That isn't the same thing, he never really liked the girl, and he only wanted the sexual stuff.
April says:
That’s immoral and immature, either way.
Scotty says:
I agree.
April says:
That’s acting on momentary feelings, right?
Scotty says:
Not really. Guys seem to have more of an overall feeling towards objects. Let’s say, for example, a guy and his car. He loves the car, and when it breaks down he gets pissed at it, but he fixes it and maintains his love for it…but a girl and her car, she will love it when it's doing something good for her, making her look cool or feel good with her hair blowing in the wind and stuff, but if it breaks down she lets it go. Do you see that at all?
April says:
No, my car was sick a couple weeks ago and I cried over it.
Scotty says:
You must have missed my point.
April says:
No...I’m a girl, I love my car, it was breaking down, and I fixed it.
Scotty says:
Okay, let’s talk about your guitar. Is it like a best friend, or is it like something you pick up when there's nothing else, or only if you want to accomplish something with it?
April says:
Hmm. I fluctuate between my piano and my guitar, but I love my guitar. If I’m playing and I get tired, I’ll take naps with it because I don't want to let it go.
Scotty says:
You are definitely less wishy-washy than other girls, but I think you're swaying your answers, trying to prove a point
April says:
I know, I was thinking about that, but I think I’m arguing pretty clear-headedly, not swayingly. My car, I’m completely serious about; I talk to it sometimes. Yikes!
Scotty says:
It’s clear headed, but is it portraying the truth of the matter? That doesn't mean it's the same type of relationship that a guy has with it
April says:
My guitar...I feel a bit guilty about that argument because I originally picked it up because I thought it was cool, but now it's like my child.
Scotty says:
How is it like your child?
April says:
I like playing it and even just holding it...I don't get sick of it and I feel I share some strange sort of bond with it. I don't know how to explain it. I'm sure my relationships with my car and guitars are a bit different from guys, but I don't see how that has to do with anything.
Scotty says:
It’s about how the sexes form relationships with things....and people are things to other people.
April says:
So…to a guy, a girl is just another “thingâ€. Nice.
Scotty says:
Guys seem to have more of a transcending love for things, where girls have that more sentient love, which is momentary. To a girl, a guy is a thing. We are all things.
April says:
No, there are more specific words in the English language that convey a more powerful respect. And that is how I view guys, if they deserve respect.
Scotty says:
What??
April says:
“Thing†is like...something to be thrown away. It's property.
Scotty says:
Yeah. That isn't how people view relationships, subconsciously?
April says:
It doesn't sound like it has much value. I don't think that's the way it should be.
Scotty says:
It isn't actual, but it's how things are in society.
April says:
Like...my boyfriend or husband would say, "This is my thing, I like my thing, she's a really nice little thing, you know?"
Scotty says:
You aren't a thing?
April says:
Like I’m some suit coat he picked up somewhere.
Scotty says:
If you aren't a thing, you're nothing and you don't exist. No, it isn't implying that.
April says:
There are thousands of words in the English language. Using a specific word is the least you can do for someone you love. Don't you agree?
Scotty says:
lol…well yeah.
April says:
Exactly. I don't care if I am in actuality a thing.
Scotty says:
You’re embodying "girl" right now.
April says:
No I’m not! And even if I am…I'm right! Would you want your girlfriend to call you her thing?
Scotty says:
No, but in actuality I am a thing, and in actuality I am not her thing.
April says:
But guys view their girls as their thing; their property.
Scotty says:
Girls view guys the same way. This whole "thing" business isn't even what we were talking about, April.
April says:
I know; where were we?
Scotty says:
See what I mean by being momentary? You reacted to that idea of people being things. What I was saying was...the way a man loves his guitar is the way that man loves his woman; same for girls, and other objects, and whatever.
April says:
But that's not true...
Scotty says:
Why not?
April says:
…Because a woman loves her lover more than anything else. It’s different from any other love. It stands on its own when she truly loves him.
Scotty says:
Of course a man will love a woman more than his guitar; he'd give up his guitar for her, or probably most anything else…that isn't what I’m talking about though. I'm talking about the nature of his love, from himself to the object of love; the idea of commitment.
April says:
He doesn't like commitment.
Scotty says:
What?
April says:
Men don't really like commitment…the majority.
Scotty says:
What evidence do you have for that? They commit themselves to whatever they do, generally.
April says:
Yeah, for a night…oh, that was harsh.
Scotty says:
lol no, if they view a girl as a sex object, that's all the girl will be unless she proves his idea of her wrong and becomes more like an equal in personality.
April says:
So what if she really likes him? And she really wants to please him? And she thinks he really likes her? But the whole time he's like "this girl has no personality, but I’m going to screw her, oh yes." That happens a lot.
Scotty says:
It does, and I hate that. It's why I’m being the way I am lately - moral towards girls.
April says:
And that's why it's easier for me to live a moral life, because I know guys are like that.
Scotty says:
Moral doesn't mean "without guys".
April says:
I know, but I don't meet many who have different interests.
Scotty says:
…Different than getting some?
April says:
Yeah.
Scotty says:
Yeah, there aren't many, it seems men are committed to getting some
April says:
lol…my point!
Scotty says:
Yeah I agree with that point. Do you see mine?
April says:
Let me tell you something, Scott.
Scotty says:
K.
April says:
Sometimes, girls don't want to hear that their position in a man's life is comparable to a guitar. It may be true, but slightly disturbing. However…
Scotty says:
You missed the point!
April says:
I do agree that…wait!
Scotty says:
K.
April says:
I do agree that if and when a man is actually committed to a girl, he really does love her; then there is a man who works really really hard for her. I have seen some marriages where I could not imagine life with a wife like that (if I were male) and yet the husband handles her beautifully and kindly all the while, whereas she will snap and cuddle when she pleases. In that, men are less momentary. In that situation! But I don't see it terribly often.
Scotty says:
Why in that situation only?
April says:
Well, what are the other situations? A lot of times a guy will put up with his woman's nuances just to get some at the end up the day.
Scotty says:
Yeah that does happen a lot, but what I meant by my question was that it must be something in the guy's nature which makes that situation generally happen the way it does; something in the way a guy is towards objects...pardon me for calling a guy's girlfriend or spouse an "object". Do you agree with that?
April says:
Yeah, I just don't see the application?
Scotty says:
What do you mean?
April says:
The point you were making with it...
Scotty says:
Girls are generally momentary, and guys aren't.
April says:
Maybe you should explain a bit more how girls are momentary.
Scotty says:
That’s hard for me to do!
April says:
Why?
Scotty says:
…Because it's subtle, kind of hidden from view. You can only know how it is by the way girls are towards things.
April says:
If it's so subtle, maybe you're mistranslating!
Scotty says:
Maybe.
…and the conversation went onto other things.
by Scott
Feb 22nd, 2004
April and Scott are talking about marriage…
April says:
It’s possible to be self-sufficient, right?
Scotty says:
It’s possible, if that's what you really want.
April says:
Oh, who really knows what they want? It changes all the time.
Scotty says:
My wants don't change really.
April says:
Maybe when it stops changing, maybe that's when you're ready [for marriage]. Hey, good for you!
Scotty says:
I don't know if it stops changing for most women.
April says:
Well, good for me because I’m a girl.
Scotty says:
lol....
April says:
If it never stops changing for women, then how come it's the men that go through mid-life crises?
Scotty says:
They don't want to die.
April says:
Women don't want to die...
Scotty says:
On realization that you're getting old, you try and be young again, or to live. Women don't go through crises?
April says:
I don't know! Women might go through some sort of crisis, but I honestly believe they are so attached to their husbands at that point that they'd never think of going all crazy.
Scotty says:
I don't know; a lot of women cheat a lot. Don't they?
April says:
Some girls do. The majority don't.
Scotty says:
Why don't they? And why do the ones that do, do?
April says:
Because women are pretty loyal.
Scotty says:
Are you sure?
April says:
The ones that cheat; they're selfish, have no morals...and basically, I think they're immature.
Scotty says:
I think most women are selfish, have no morals, and are immature. No one has proven me wrong yet. Maybe you; still, I don't know you well enough.
April says:
Well, I can't argue against the selfish thing. Of course I’m selfish. I mean if I really loved a guy, I wouldn't cheat on him because the aftereffects would be damaging to our relationship, and therefore I’d suffer a lot, especially from guilt. But I also think if I really loved the guy, I wouldn't be thinking about other guys. I tend to get tunnel vision; but I do think I have morals…the maturity thing...I’m working on that. I don't think most women are immature, selfish and lacking morals.
Scotty says:
Based on evidence, I do, but I guess I just don't know women, and I only know girls.
April says:
Then you're hanging out with the wrong girls.
Scotty says:
Well no, mostly all of them are like that.
April says:
I really don't think...a lot of girls I know are like that. Some yes, but.
Scotty says:
They don't base their decisions on how they feel?
April says:
How is that related to immaturity?
Scotty says:
If at one moment, they feel they like a person, and the next they stop liking them...it’s immoral and immature. Well, at least if they act on their momentary feelings
April says:
Men do that more than women.
Scotty says:
What evidence do you have for that?
April says:
Guys will like a girl and she will, um, please them. The next day he's like "I’m out of this".
Scotty says:
That isn't the same thing, he never really liked the girl, and he only wanted the sexual stuff.
April says:
That’s immoral and immature, either way.
Scotty says:
I agree.
April says:
That’s acting on momentary feelings, right?
Scotty says:
Not really. Guys seem to have more of an overall feeling towards objects. Let’s say, for example, a guy and his car. He loves the car, and when it breaks down he gets pissed at it, but he fixes it and maintains his love for it…but a girl and her car, she will love it when it's doing something good for her, making her look cool or feel good with her hair blowing in the wind and stuff, but if it breaks down she lets it go. Do you see that at all?
April says:
No, my car was sick a couple weeks ago and I cried over it.
Scotty says:
You must have missed my point.
April says:
No...I’m a girl, I love my car, it was breaking down, and I fixed it.
Scotty says:
Okay, let’s talk about your guitar. Is it like a best friend, or is it like something you pick up when there's nothing else, or only if you want to accomplish something with it?
April says:
Hmm. I fluctuate between my piano and my guitar, but I love my guitar. If I’m playing and I get tired, I’ll take naps with it because I don't want to let it go.
Scotty says:
You are definitely less wishy-washy than other girls, but I think you're swaying your answers, trying to prove a point
April says:
I know, I was thinking about that, but I think I’m arguing pretty clear-headedly, not swayingly. My car, I’m completely serious about; I talk to it sometimes. Yikes!
Scotty says:
It’s clear headed, but is it portraying the truth of the matter? That doesn't mean it's the same type of relationship that a guy has with it
April says:
My guitar...I feel a bit guilty about that argument because I originally picked it up because I thought it was cool, but now it's like my child.
Scotty says:
How is it like your child?
April says:
I like playing it and even just holding it...I don't get sick of it and I feel I share some strange sort of bond with it. I don't know how to explain it. I'm sure my relationships with my car and guitars are a bit different from guys, but I don't see how that has to do with anything.
Scotty says:
It’s about how the sexes form relationships with things....and people are things to other people.
April says:
So…to a guy, a girl is just another “thingâ€. Nice.
Scotty says:
Guys seem to have more of a transcending love for things, where girls have that more sentient love, which is momentary. To a girl, a guy is a thing. We are all things.
April says:
No, there are more specific words in the English language that convey a more powerful respect. And that is how I view guys, if they deserve respect.
Scotty says:
What??
April says:
“Thing†is like...something to be thrown away. It's property.
Scotty says:
Yeah. That isn't how people view relationships, subconsciously?
April says:
It doesn't sound like it has much value. I don't think that's the way it should be.
Scotty says:
It isn't actual, but it's how things are in society.
April says:
Like...my boyfriend or husband would say, "This is my thing, I like my thing, she's a really nice little thing, you know?"
Scotty says:
You aren't a thing?
April says:
Like I’m some suit coat he picked up somewhere.
Scotty says:
If you aren't a thing, you're nothing and you don't exist. No, it isn't implying that.
April says:
There are thousands of words in the English language. Using a specific word is the least you can do for someone you love. Don't you agree?
Scotty says:
lol…well yeah.
April says:
Exactly. I don't care if I am in actuality a thing.
Scotty says:
You’re embodying "girl" right now.
April says:
No I’m not! And even if I am…I'm right! Would you want your girlfriend to call you her thing?
Scotty says:
No, but in actuality I am a thing, and in actuality I am not her thing.
April says:
But guys view their girls as their thing; their property.
Scotty says:
Girls view guys the same way. This whole "thing" business isn't even what we were talking about, April.
April says:
I know; where were we?
Scotty says:
See what I mean by being momentary? You reacted to that idea of people being things. What I was saying was...the way a man loves his guitar is the way that man loves his woman; same for girls, and other objects, and whatever.
April says:
But that's not true...
Scotty says:
Why not?
April says:
…Because a woman loves her lover more than anything else. It’s different from any other love. It stands on its own when she truly loves him.
Scotty says:
Of course a man will love a woman more than his guitar; he'd give up his guitar for her, or probably most anything else…that isn't what I’m talking about though. I'm talking about the nature of his love, from himself to the object of love; the idea of commitment.
April says:
He doesn't like commitment.
Scotty says:
What?
April says:
Men don't really like commitment…the majority.
Scotty says:
What evidence do you have for that? They commit themselves to whatever they do, generally.
April says:
Yeah, for a night…oh, that was harsh.
Scotty says:
lol no, if they view a girl as a sex object, that's all the girl will be unless she proves his idea of her wrong and becomes more like an equal in personality.
April says:
So what if she really likes him? And she really wants to please him? And she thinks he really likes her? But the whole time he's like "this girl has no personality, but I’m going to screw her, oh yes." That happens a lot.
Scotty says:
It does, and I hate that. It's why I’m being the way I am lately - moral towards girls.
April says:
And that's why it's easier for me to live a moral life, because I know guys are like that.
Scotty says:
Moral doesn't mean "without guys".
April says:
I know, but I don't meet many who have different interests.
Scotty says:
…Different than getting some?
April says:
Yeah.
Scotty says:
Yeah, there aren't many, it seems men are committed to getting some
April says:
lol…my point!
Scotty says:
Yeah I agree with that point. Do you see mine?
April says:
Let me tell you something, Scott.
Scotty says:
K.
April says:
Sometimes, girls don't want to hear that their position in a man's life is comparable to a guitar. It may be true, but slightly disturbing. However…
Scotty says:
You missed the point!
April says:
I do agree that…wait!
Scotty says:
K.
April says:
I do agree that if and when a man is actually committed to a girl, he really does love her; then there is a man who works really really hard for her. I have seen some marriages where I could not imagine life with a wife like that (if I were male) and yet the husband handles her beautifully and kindly all the while, whereas she will snap and cuddle when she pleases. In that, men are less momentary. In that situation! But I don't see it terribly often.
Scotty says:
Why in that situation only?
April says:
Well, what are the other situations? A lot of times a guy will put up with his woman's nuances just to get some at the end up the day.
Scotty says:
Yeah that does happen a lot, but what I meant by my question was that it must be something in the guy's nature which makes that situation generally happen the way it does; something in the way a guy is towards objects...pardon me for calling a guy's girlfriend or spouse an "object". Do you agree with that?
April says:
Yeah, I just don't see the application?
Scotty says:
What do you mean?
April says:
The point you were making with it...
Scotty says:
Girls are generally momentary, and guys aren't.
April says:
Maybe you should explain a bit more how girls are momentary.
Scotty says:
That’s hard for me to do!
April says:
Why?
Scotty says:
…Because it's subtle, kind of hidden from view. You can only know how it is by the way girls are towards things.
April says:
If it's so subtle, maybe you're mistranslating!
Scotty says:
Maybe.
…and the conversation went onto other things.