Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

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Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:32 am

Will we ever know THE TRUTH ?

http://www.montalk.net/alien

http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/cooper/s ... rnment.htm




edited for adding another link 3/19/12
Last edited by Kunga on Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby cousinbasil » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:15 am

Kunga wrote:Will we ever know THE TRUTH ?

http://www.montalk.net/alien

If one applies a measure of discernement, perhaps one might eliminate the fringe theories...

Come on Kunga, seriously! Have you never heard the ring of truth? The WWW is replete with pages spewing ignorance, and this is just the start. With TCP/IPV6 already being deployed, the proliferation of pap has just begun.

I may have outlined the difference between v4 (current) and v6 elsewhere at GF. But rest assured, if the number of fringe thoughts out there have been kept off the Internet because of logical limitations (like there are just so many places your browser can land), that is no longer the case.

You need a rudder, Kunga. Think. And don't stop!
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:59 am

cousinbasil wrote:If one applies a measure of discernement, perhaps one might eliminate the fringe theories...


Discernment, to pacify your mind ? Yes, we would rather have the choice of picking and choosing what is the truth, because some fringe theories do not fit into whats logical in our comfortable world of normallacy.

Belive me...I would love to slam the door on the possibility of our being controlled and manipulated by a higher intelligence,( not of this world,) but to me (having a mind so open, my brains have fallen out)....this possibility remains open.

BTW, this link is probebly one of the most well presented and examined , I have encountered. The writer sounds very logical and rational...not like it was written by someone with a mental illness. If, this stuff is purely fiction, made to embellish this culture of science-fiction, UFO's, etc., then you got to admit they are quite good at this .
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby cousinbasil » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:22 am

Yes, we would rather have the choice of picking and choosing what is the truth, because some fringe theories do not fit into whats logical in our comfortable world of normallacy.

That is not what I meant. I mentioned the ring of truth. No matter how carefully worded an untruth is, it will not have the ring of truth.

May I also say - horrors - that by "untruth" I mean that which is not the truth. I do not mean a lie. Because many if not most people believe the untruths which they espouse.

I am just asking, how does it sound to YOU, Kunga? If two things, no matter how skillfully worded or presented, claim logically incompatible things, shouldn't one of them lack that ring? They both may lack it, but can they both have it?

Here's an example: almost nothing that DonaldJ has written here smacks of falsehood on any level. Yet how much of it has the ring of truth? By that I mean, it doesn't matter who you hear it from, it is true on the face of it?
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:04 am

cousinbasil wrote: No matter how carefully worded an untruth is, it will not have the ring of truth.


Yes, but some people hear the ring of truth, and others hear it as untruth. Many people do not like to hear anything reguarding aliens, ufo's , crop circles, etc. They automatically turn off at the mensioning of these subjects, try to make you look foolish for even considering the possibilities without (their) qualified protocols of evidence. Even if there was empirical evidence, they wouldn't see it as such.

Tom Montalk is either a talented science-fiction writer, or knows what he's talking about .

http://montalk.net/about/87/truth-analysis
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:16 pm

Whatever he is, only a genius could come up with all this detail and fluency of thought :

http://montalk.net/matrix/64/emotional-management


The more I read of him, the more I feel he must be telling the truth. He is rational and logical :

http://montalk.net/matrix/157/spiritless-humans
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby guest_of_logic » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:24 pm

Kunga,

I've only read a little of what you've linked to, but so far it's pretty good stuff. The author seems intelligent and rational, and seems to have put in a lot of effort, not just in researching and writing, but also in presenting the material through website design and proofreading. I've bookmarked it but will probably do some more reading now too. It's an interesting question, how we can know the truth, and his "Truth Analysis" page is an excellent one. I'm certainly open to the possibility, even likelihood, of alien visitation - there are too many reports from credible sources to dismiss it without thought. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:47 am

Thank you Guest_of_Logic. I've been reading material on this subject for many years, like cousinbasil said, (about the ring of truth), the stuff that sounds like a hoax & b.s. automatically turns me off..like I can instantly detect someone lying.....like looking at a fake crop-circle & a real one. Another advantage to knowing what is fake or real, is your own experiences....It's easier for me to relate to things if I've had direct contact/experience.

This subject [to me], has ultimate importance...but I don't dwell on it. Every once and a while I gotta do more exploration, and get my fix of science-fiction & alien movies....then I move on again & live my life as best I can....but always/daily keeping focused on spiritual/truth understanding....



guest_of_logic wrote: there are too many reports from credible sources to dismiss it without thought.


Yes, the evidence is really overwhelming, you gotta be blind not to see it. I think this subject is just too rivoting for most people to handle. People really do not want to see evidence, and if there was evidence, those people would not accept it.

I guess my stance on life has never been set in stone & I am not deeply affected by change, but go with the flow....whereas people that have all their ducks in a row & their dogmas firmly established, would be the most vunerable.
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:24 am

Credible evidence is everywhere, if you look for it, you will find it. This is just a fraction of many credible people comming out openly :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YULv2cnwfus
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby movingalways » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:02 am

Kunga, for you:

The self-originated Clear Light, which from the very beginning was never born,
Is the child of Rigpa, which is itself without any parents - how amazing!
This self-originated wisdom has not been created by anyone - how amazing!
It has never experienced birth and has nothing in it that could cause it to die - how amazing!

Although it is evidently visible, yet there is no one there who sees it - how amazing!
Although it has wandered through samsara, no harm has come to it - how amazing!
Although it exists in everyone everywhere, it has gone unrecognized - how amazing!
And yet you go on hoping to attain some other fruit than this elsewhere - how amazing!
Even though it is the thing that is most essentially yours, you seek for it elsewhere - how amazing!

THE FOUR PHASES OF DHARMATA

Luminosity - the Landscape of Light


In the bardo of dharmata, you take on a body of light. The first phase of this bardo is when "space dissolves into luminosity". Suddenly you become aware of a flowing vibrant world of sound, light, and colour. All the ordinary features of our familiar environment have melted into an all-pervasive landscape of light. This is brilliantly clear and radiant, transparent and multicoloured, unlimited by any kind of dimension or direction, shimmering and constantly in motion. Its colours are the natural expression of the intrinsic elemental qualities of the mind: space is perceived as blue light, water as white, earth as yellow, fire as red and wind as green.

How stable these dazzling appearances of light are in the bardo of dharmata depends entirely upon what stability you have managed to attain in Togal (spiritual) practice. Only a real mastery of this practice will enable you to stabilize the experience and so use it to gain liberation. Otherwise, the bardo of dhamata will simply flash by like a bolt of lightning; you will not even know that it has occurred.

Union - the Deities

If you are unable to recognize this as the spontaneous play of Rigpa, the simple rays and colours then begin to integrate and coalesce into points of balls of light of different sizes, called tikle. Within them, the "mandalas of the peaceful and wrathful deities" appear, as enormous spherical concentrations of light seeming to occupy the whole of space.

This is the second phase, known as "luminosity dissolving into union," where the luminosity manifests in the form of buddhas or deities of various size, colour, and form, holding different attributes. The brilliant light they emanate is blinding and dazzling, the sound is tremendous, like the roaring of a thousand thunderclaps, and the rays and beams of light are like lasers, piercing everything. They unfold, taking on their own characteristic mandala pattern of five-fold clusters. This is a vision that fills the whole of your perception with such intensity that if you are unable to recognize it for what it is, it appears terrifying and threatening. From yourself and from the deities, very fine shafts of light stream out, joining your heart with theirs. Countless luminous spheres appear in their rays, which increase and the "roll up," as the deities dissolve into you.

Wisdom


If again you fail to recognize and gain stability, the next phase unfolds, called "union dissolving into wisdom."

Another shaft of light springs out from your heart and an enormous vision unfolds from it; however, every detail remains distinct and precise. This is the display of the various aspects of wisdom, which appear together in a show of unfurled carpets of light and resplendent spherical luminous tikles.

First, on a carpet of deep blue light appear shimmering tikles of sapphire blue, in patterns of five. Above that, on a carpet of white light, appear radiant tikles, white like crystal. Above, on a carpet of yellow light, appear golden tikles, and upon that a carpet of red light supports ruby red tikles. They are crowned by a radiant sphere like an outspread canopy made of peacock feathers.

This brilliant display of light is the manifestation of the five wisdoms: wisdom of all-encompassing space, mirror-like wisdom, equalizing wisdom, wisdom of discernment and all-accomplishing wisdom. But since the all-accomplishing wisdom is only perfected at the time of enlightenment, it does not appear yet. Therefore, there is no green carpet of light and tikcles, yet it is inherent within all the other colours. What is being manifested here is our potential of enlightenment, and the all-accomplishing wisdom will appear when we become a buddha.

If you do not attain liberation here through resting undistracted in the nature of mind, the carpets of light and their tikles, along with your Rigpa, all dissolve into the radiant sphere of light, which is like a canopy of peacock feathers.

Spontaneous Presence


This heralds the final phase of the bardo of dharmata, "wisdom dissolving into spontaneous presence." Now the whole of reality presents itself in one tremendous display. First the state of primordial purity dawns like an open, cloudless sky. Then the peaceful and wrathful deities appear, followed by the pure realms of the buddhas, and below them the six realms of samsaric existence.

The limitlessness of this vision is utterly beyond our ordinary imagination. Every possibility is presented from wisdom and liberation, to confusion and rebirth. At this point you will find yourself endowed with powers of clairvoyent perception and recollection. The entire vision then dissolves back into its original essence, like a tent collapsing once its ropes are cut.
Now when the bardo of dharmata dawns upon me,
I will abandon all fear and terror [suffering],
I will recognize whatever appears as the display of my own Rigpa,
And know it to be the natural appearance of this bardo; [realm]
Now that I have reached this crucial point,
I will not fear the peaceful and wrathful deities, that arise from the nature of my very own mind.

* The Tibetian Book of the Living and Dying, Sogyal Rinpoche
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:25 am

movingalways wrote:I will not fear the peaceful and wrathful deities, that arise from the nature of my very own mind.


Thank You Pam _/\_

BTW, I'm not afraid.

Ever read the autobiography of Milarepa ?
His confrontations with Demons,
Then realizing it's his own Mind.
The Demons leave .

There is a good reason for my on/off obsession with Extraterrestrials.
It's Spiritual.

I think I will be more prepared for (something).


_/\_
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby movingalways » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:22 am

You are welcome, Kunga.

I have not read the biography of Milarepa, but it sounds very much like the experience Jesus had in the wilderness when he told satan "to get thee behind me."

In approaching the Dharmata, one has to look deeper into the meaning of the word fear than the ordinary human understanding of what fear means. Fear in the deepest sense is any reaction one has to the appearance of form, regardless if it is an appearance of sight, of sound, of smell, of taste or of touch and regardless if it is deemed to be a positive reaction or a negative reaction. Why? Since everything arises from one's own mind, any reaction to the thing is therefore, wrong view or delusional thinking. Your signature says it all. :-)

Spiritual practice then, in this context, is the practice of not reacting to "extraterrestrials", of standing strong and firm and unmoving on your Clear Light when they appear in your mind. Not an easy practice, indeed!
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:53 am

lol
another one of my signatures (on another forum) is :

Look as if you were not seeing, hear as if you hear nothing.

_/\_


i still feel like i;m 2
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby movingalways » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:46 am

Kunga wrote:lol
another one of my signatures (on another forum) is :

Look as if you were not seeing, hear as if you hear nothing.

_/\_


i still feel like i;m 2


I haven't met anyone who doesn't at least whimper when they stub their toe! :-)
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby movingalways » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:24 am

P.S. I have found that the reactions that best help me while I am practising non-reaction to the appearance of my "rope" are compassion and laughter. I do notice that when I am practising compassion, my "rope" is tender and raw and when I am laughing, my "rope" is dancing wildly in the breeze of my own delight at my own mis-taken identity!
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Dennis Mahar » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:23 am

P.S. I have found that the reactions that best help me while I am practising non-reaction to the appearance of my "rope" are compassion and laughter. I do notice that when I am practising compassion, my "rope" is tender and raw and when I am laughing, my "rope" is dancing wildly in the breeze of my own delight at my own mis-taken identity!


The 'rope' appearing or conditioned mind spinning off on a tangent, in that noticing, incredibly funny,
it's not so much a vocalised laughter, rather the body/mind dissolves into a smile and a marvellous 'lightness' or incredible lightness of being suffuses.

When another is recounting their little 'storm in a teacup' drama,
the inward smile radiates,
as the 'getting it, getting it, getting it' rolls out,
It's hard to keep a straight face,
ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do,
convention apparently dictates.

Why oh why is Serenity abandoned for 'troubled Being'?

How do you 'ground' the ecstasy of simply being, empty of contents,
it's so overpowering at times,
one could disappear,

there's always chop wood, carry water as a context to come back to earth.
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby movingalways » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:36 am

The 'rope' appearing or conditioned mind spinning off on a tangent, in that noticing, incredibly funny,
it's not so much a vocalised laughter, rather the body/mind dissolves into a smile and a marvellous 'lightness' or incredible lightness of being suffuses.


If you don't have the wisdom of what this rope is and how it is cut away, then this dissolving continues eternally.

When another is recounting their little 'storm in a teacup' drama,
the inward smile radiates,
as the 'getting it, getting it, getting it' rolls out,
It's hard to keep a straight face,
ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do,
convention apparently dictates.


Until one has the wisdom of the nature of convention, that is, to be their reflection or image of SELF, then it is true, convention apparently dictates.

Why oh why is Serenity abandoned for 'troubled Being'?


Serenity is non-reflected awareness, therefore, by definition, 'troubled Being' is reflected awareness. What is the cure? Seems obvious to me. :-)

How do you 'ground' the ecstasy of simply being, empty of contents,
it's so overpowering at times,
one could disappear,

there's always chop wood, carry water as a context to come back to earth.


Dennis, since you must 'ground' ecstasy and it is experienced as being overpowering, ecstasy is not awareness of simply being, to be empty of contents. In being, in emptiness, there is no rising up present that needs 'grounding', is this not true?

This is why I say, in the truth of knowing the difference between reality and the appearance, that if one desire to 'simply be', they must cease rising up to meet their projected objects, they must cease appearing to themselves. Look what happens when you try to hold the overpowering appearance of ecstasy in your mind? You cannot. You are forced to return to the earth, the reflected image of SELF. Do you desire to live this dual, imagined awareness of ecstasy/chopping wood and carrying water for the eternity of your awareness?
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:26 am

What is the cure? Seems obvious to me. :-)


I don't mind 'separate self'.
Who cares anyway?

You like teacher with sharp stick Pam,
Good work.

Sitting quietly, without fear or joy, beyond time, one recognises unbounded Being that belongs to neither you or me.
There could have been only nothing,
yet there is something,
astonished there is something and what a marvel it is.

What is seen is of little account,
The fact of seeing, that seeing is, thrills.
Joie de vivre!

When the joy hits I snuggle in my doona till it passes and clears.
When the grief hits I snuggle in my doona till it passes and clears.
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby movingalways » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:49 am

Dennis, I desire to be real. You desire to communicate with your reflection. At least now we know exactly where each of us stands in our relationship to truth.

While you snuggle in your doona, a gentle poke of Pam's stick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxyqhyhSEXc

In the context of the lyrics and the mood of Leonard's voice, I believe that if ecstasy was made of one syllable and not three, Leonard might have titled the song "Ecstasy Itself." :-)
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:39 am

Lenny went broke in the Global Financial Crisis.
He's constantly touring to get a Cash Supply.

and the beat goes on...

We are reflections.
Moons in water.

drums keep pounding rhythm to the brain..

marching to the beat of a different drum.
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:22 am

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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:19 pm

http://www.truthism.com/

as I pondered over the implications in this thought provolking essay....I came to the conclusion that it is bullshit.....on the basis that there is so much beauty & diversity in life that only nature could create it.....not some alien barbaric intelligence.
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Re: Fringe Fiction or Truth ?

Postby Kunga » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:15 am

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