Police State

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Police State

Postby Elizabeth Isabelle » Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:55 pm

America prides itself on being "land of the free." Freedoms seem to be vanishing, and instances of police abusing their power are starting to look commonplace.

Australia was strongly considering censoring the internet. Is there freedom of speech in Australia?

I've seen enough of these sorts of stories on the In the News thread, and the second news thread, that I think the topic of the growing police state deserves its own thread.

The first time, the cop says "Get down on the ground; you're going to get tasered." He then tells the guy to get down on the ground now OR he will get tasered, so the guy calmly gets down on the ground, lays there passively but asks why the cop is kicking his legs around, lays there calmly while 5 of the 6 cops back away from him, and then he gets tasered.
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Re: Police State

Postby mystex » Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:36 pm

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Re: Police State

Postby Elizabeth Isabelle » Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:56 am

This whole set covers the incident during the American Presidential debate at Hofstra where the Iraq Veterans Against the War had sent two vets to represent them and ask the candidates one question each - one to McCain about his poor voting record regarding veteran issues, and the other to Obama to ask him if he would support those who refuse to fight in an illegal war (Obama had already said this war is illegal, and apparently there is a military law that a soldier is required to refuse orders to participate in an illegal action).

The vets had made advance contact, but not only were they not allowed in, one was trampled by a police horse, crushing his head and causing him to lose consciousness. They were then arrested, and the one who was knocked unconscious when his head was crushed by a police horse was denied medical attention. The reason given was that the prisoner did not ask for medical assistance.

article - not as complete as the videos.
If you only watch one of these videos, watch this one.
The incident, starting from the beginning of the protest
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North American Army created - without OK by Congress

Postby Tomas » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:47 am

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North American Army created - without OK by Congress

U.S., Canada military ink deal to fight domestic emergencies (see photo)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php? ... geId=57228
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SWAT raid on food co-op called 'entrapment'

Postby Tomas » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:32 am

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SWAT raid on food co-op called 'entrapment'

-snip-

Lawyer says family badgered by agent to 'sell' eggs
(see photo of Jacqueline and John Stower)

-Click URL for complete article-

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php? ... geId=84594
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Re: Police State

Postby Carl G » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:33 am

Help!! Police!! Tomas is back on the links rampage.
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Re: North American Army created - without OK by Congress

Postby Elizabeth Isabelle » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:22 pm

Tomas wrote:North American Army created - without OK by Congress

U.S., Canada military ink deal to fight domestic emergencies (see photo)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php? ... geId=57228
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The mere fact that the governments didn't say anything to the people of either country until after this was done is concerning.

Tomas wrote:SWAT raid on food co-op


This is frightening. Gotta wonder if part of this is that the government wants to make sure that as many of us as possible are eating the chemicals they are adding to foods, and not getting anything that might be too healthy, allowing brains to think...

Carl G wrote:Help!! Police!! Tomas is back on the links rampage.


Can it Carl. He's on a current topic.
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Re: Police State

Postby Carl G » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:04 pm

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The new Guidelines now encourage the FBI to snoop around looking for people who might be suspicious, creating files on anyone who catches their fancy. Agents can now investigate people, organizations, websites, chat rooms and forums for any reason or for no reason at all. They can enter your home without a warrant and are not required to inform you that they have invaded your home if you are not present.

Click URL to check out website:

http://www.hermes-press.com/police_state.htm

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Re: Police State

Postby Carl G » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:13 pm

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The Police State Road Map


First published January 2004.
Last updated March 2005.

Download as PDF.

http://policestateplanning.com/id19.htm

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Re: Police State

Postby DHodges » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:59 am

Carl G wrote:They can enter your home without a warrant and are not required to inform you that they have invaded your home if you are not present.
Seriously? Is this referring to some particular piece of legislation? The Fourth Amendment pretty directly forbids such a thing.
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Re: Police State

Postby Carl G » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:16 am

Why yes, I believe this is part of the Patriot Act, of 2001.
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Re: North American Army created - without OK by Congress

Postby Tomas » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:05 am

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-Tomas earlier-
North American Army created - without OK by Congress
U.S., Canada military ink deal to fight domestic emergencies (see photo)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php? ... geId=57228

-Elizabeth-
The mere fact that the governments didn't say anything to the people of either country until after this was done is concerning.

-tomas-
From where I've been, it isn't gonna get any better. This reminds me of a signing ceremony I witnessed back in the late 1970s regarding Carter and the Torrijos regimes. The US can always intervene at a later date (to be determined) when the Panama Canal is threatened by alien? subversion. Monroe Doctrine is in full force as we speak.


-Tomas earlier-
SWAT raid on food co-op

-Elizabeth-
This is frightening. Gotta wonder if part of this is that the government wants to make sure that as many of us as possible are eating the chemicals they are adding to foods, and not getting anything that might be too healthy, allowing brains to think...

Yup! Right on, Eliz.. Cloning chickens (literally domesticated pheasants) is designed to cut out the middle man, Tyson Foods will be back in vogue once Hillary holds sway. The Man is already clearing out the Kosher food market what with the Iowa raid some time back using "illegal immigrants" (poor homeless Mexican-indians) as chattel now clogging up the legal system not to mention jails everywhere. Human life is also being devalued to pave way for Canada/US/Mexico corporate hegemony.
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Last edited by Tomas on Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Police State

Postby Elizabeth Isabelle » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:04 pm

Rex 84, short for "Readiness Exercise 1984" - Readiness for what? George Orwell's 1984? Isn't it reassuring to know that in case of massive civil unrest in America, the government has plenty of prison space for their "continuity of government" plan? Don't you feel good that your tax dollars have gone to prepare for a war on you?
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Study: DoD May Act On US Civil Unrest

Postby Tomas » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:46 am

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Study: DoD May Act On US Civil Unrest

-snip-

A U.S. Army War College report warns an economic crisis in the United States could
lead to massive civil unrest and the need to call on the military to restore order.

-Click URL for complete article-

http://www.military.com/news/article/st ... ESCR=eb.nl
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Change In The Nick Of Time (Part One)

Postby Tomas » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:05 pm

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Change In The Nick Of Time (Part One)

-snip-

A militarized police state is coming to this country-into your own neighborhood, and with you and your family as its targets

The government of the United States is a type of political machinery. When in doubt about how to use any pieces of machinery safely and effectively, the prudent operator should first consult the manufacturer's set of instructions-in this case, the Constitution. The Constitution explicitly provides for four, and only four, "homeland-security" establishments:

-Click URL for complete article-

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin187.htm
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Re: Police State

Postby Carl G » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:09 pm

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Supreme Court ruling foreshadows police state

-snip-

On June 21, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that citizens no longer have the right to remain silent when questioned by the police. That “the state's interest in protecting police and investigating crime” takes priority over the constitutional rights of citizens.

Click URL to read more

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20 ... coming.htm


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Re: Police State

Postby Carl G » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:14 pm

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Special Report:Katrina/Rita Fallout Part One
Martial Law: Police State America - We're So Close Now

For years we have warned that the police state is coming, how Martial Law will become the norm, how ancient laws, rights and freedoms are being overturned and replaced with repressive mechanisms of control.

Click on URL to read article.

http://infowars.net/Pages/Sept05/270905Martiallaw.htm

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Last edited by Carl G on Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Police State

Postby Carl G » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:18 pm

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Top 10 Signs of the Impending U.S. Police State

From secret detention centers to warrantless wiretapping, Bush and Co. give free rein to their totalitarian impulses.

Click on URL to read article

http://www.alternet.org/story/36553

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Re: Police State

Postby Carl G » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:23 pm

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Is America Becoming a Police State?
by REP. RON PAUL

-snip-

The question is no longer rhetorical. We are not yet living in a total police state, but it is fast approaching.

-click on URL for complete article-

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel ... entid=1729

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Re: Police State

Postby Tomas » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:55 am

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Rex 84, short for "Readiness Exercise 1984" - Readiness for what? George Orwell's 1984? Isn't it reassuring to know that in case of massive civil unrest in America, the government has plenty of prison space for their "continuity of government" plan? Don't you feel good that your tax dollars have gone to prepare for a war on you?


Wow, i can't remember where or what was doing during that time period.

PS - Come to think of it .. neither did Reagan. That was about the time the rumors began to surface he had some form of Alzheimer's coming on..

Yup, It's Morning in America :-(
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Re: Police State

Postby DHodges » Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:37 am

Okay, I have a problem with all this.

I agree that America is turning into a police state, or is at least heading in that direction. There are many examples of government growing out of control and ignoring the limits that were originally placed on it.

But when you dig into many of the sources on the internet, you find that the people writing about this are generally not so much concerned with the expansion of government power, but just particular uses to which it is being put. It's not that they really want to limit the government; they want to harness its power to their own ends. And it seems that there is often an underlying Christian theme to it - they really want America to be a theocracy.

For instance, dig a bit into the World Net Daily that Tomas has been referencing so often, and you will find things like this :
How Atheism is being Sold to America

World Net Daily wrote:No question about it. America was founded by Christians. Its very purpose for being was the furtherance of biblical Christianity, according to the Pilgrims and succeeding generations. Our first school system was created expressly to propagate the Christian faith. Almost all the Founding Fathers who drafted and signed the Constitution were believers. Even Supreme Court Justice David Josiah Brewer, in the high court's 1892 "Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States" decision, proclaimed the obvious: "This is a Christian nation."


So, what is the answer? I don't know. It's easy to be against something. But just because someone else is against the same thing as you, doesn't mean you are for the same thing.
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Re: Police State

Postby Elizabeth Isabelle » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:21 pm

DHodges wrote:It's not that they really want to limit the government; they want to harness its power to their own ends.


We need to ask what government is, and what it is for.

In my opinion...
Really, we are all just a bunch of people plunked on this planet, trying to figure out how best to get by in our lives. We have these funky things called "history" and "tradition" that mess with our minds a bit. Some want to hold on to these things, figuring that they've worked well enough to get us here, so they work - but others feel they don't work, or at least not well enough.

Look at the rest of the creatures on this planet. None of them seem to have a discernible government, although a lot of them seem to have a hierarchy. Humans did that too, as far as I can tell, in the early days. He who could beat up the most other people got to be king. Of course it didn't stay just like that, especially as his group got bigger. He needed other people who could beat the masses into submission, so he had to pay/bribe/coerce some others into helping him. Make them feel special or indebted and gain their loyalty. Then, in humanitarian countries, the special or indebted meme grew to all the people and suddenly it got called nationalism. In fierce dictatorships, the punishments got harsher and the control got stricter.

Of course along the way some groups rebelled and made their own nations. A fairly recent example of this rebellion was in colonial America. There are probably some tribes that did the same sort of thing, but nothing on the scale of the USA. Anyway, the founders figured that in order to protect ourselves from these other nations, we had to have some kind of centralized organization kind of like the other countries, but better. They had history and tradition haunting them too, so they couldn't get past the basic fact that "kind of like" would mean the seeds of being basically the same.

Although a figurehead is switched out every 4-8 years, a lot of people wiggled their way into being essentially American royalty. Meanwhile some of the more established and overt royalties were being outgrown by their countries, and were making personal cutbacks in how lavish their lifestyles and scrambling to make themselves look useful because their people just wouldn't put up with it anymore. Now, Americans are looking at our covert royalty and asking why we should support their lavish lifestyles when they don't seem to be doing anything, just like people of some other countries did with their royalty. In the humanitarian countries, the perks for belonging to one nation or another picked up. Government became more of a provider than a dictator.

It seems that when people question their government, one of two things happens: either the government says "you're right, let's make this better for everyone" or it says "shut up or eat lead." Americans are starting to question our government. We're right to be concerned if the outcome is more like North Vietnam, or more like France.

Hodges, the adage "you can't please all the people all the time" is true. Maybe there is a better way to deal with life than through government, or maybe government is a beast that can be tamed with the right kind of populace. Maybe it's both, but we first have to learn to control the beast before we can vanquish it... like a social evolutionary step.

We have a lot of choices on how we, as a human race, can live our lives - but most people can't see them. I can't even begin to touch on all the options in one post, and even if I could - there would not likely be one that fit everyone perfectly. At least not at this stage of evolution.

Maybe we can't all agree on being for the same thing, but I think that an overwhelming majority agreeing "not that" is a step in the right direction.
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Re: Police State

Postby Hegarty » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:49 am

You can question the government but they only react to numbers/averages. If an area of a country has a high crime rate the government will make it easier and more accessible to become a police officer, hence a lower quality of policing.

Higher crime rate and bad policing is a product of high populated areas with extreme cultural/class differentiations, which is the product of greed...... isn't that the issue.

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Re: Police State

Postby DHodges » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:29 am

Elizabeth, you might find this interesting (attributed to "whiskey contributor" but actually written by Thoreau):
Ideal Governance Is The Lack Thereof


Hegarty wrote:Higher crime rate and bad policing is a product of high populated areas with extreme cultural/class differentiations, which is the product of greed...... isn't that the issue.

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Hi, Ed. Welcome.

I think there's more to it than that, it some cases. Certainly it seems that some highly populated areas (Chicago, New Jersey) are especially susceptible to corruption. But in the US, there were a few historical events that had a major influence on the way things are today.

Perhaps the most important of these was Prohibition. Since a huge number of people - perhaps the majority - broke the law during Prohibition, the general respect for the law was diminished, a network of corruption was put into place, and organized crime increased.

Prohibition was put into place by a minority of people who thought they knew what was best for everyone else. It's a great example of that mentality, and the (unintended) consequences of legislating morality.
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Re: Police State

Postby Elizabeth Isabelle » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:33 pm

Yes, welcome Ed.

D - yeah, that looked familiar. I believe that there is room for debate about whether or not government is still necessary, and debate about whether government can be a good thing. The issue I'm pointing at in this thread, though, is like this lawyer's protest sign says "Fear Totalitarianism" - for which she was shot twice with rubber bullets (once in the back of her leg, and later on her forehead), and then later the police (looked like maybe 50 of them) had a big laugh over it.

And it isn't just a matter of a cop going bad here and there, although that happens too. Bigger concerns are when it starts looking like at least 9 cops try to cover up when a cop dislocates the shoulder of a reporter because another cop got concerned about her cameraman filming him.

DHodges, these videos make your point moot, as the police are not part of the government. Supposedly, they are private citizens. Therefore, getting rid of the government would not change occurrences like these.
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