Is there anyone here genuinely seeking enlightenment?

[Rhett]

I havent been here for a long time.

Is there anyone here genuinely seeking enlightenment?

[jupiviv]

I havent been here for a long time.

Is there anyone here genuinely seeking enlightenment?

Forum population of the past year is 8 by my estimation, so your question is somewhat academic. But whatever, count me in. Seeking enlightenment is just a fancy name for trying to make sense of the world. I'd say all 8 of us currently posting semi/regularly seem to be genuinely doing that, each in their own way.

[Rhett]

Okay.

So if becoming enlightened is about, as you say, "trying to make sense of the world", how do you see it as different to science, or different at all?

[Eric Schiedler]

I havent been here for a long time.

Is there anyone here genuinely seeking enlightenment?

In what direction are you taking your inquiry?

The recent archives on this forum speak for themselves.

If a man seeks Truth or gains Wisdom, it quite typically is first manifest through an awakening during early adulthood or even early adolescence. He directly experiences a lifting of the veil of inherent existence and for a brief period becomes spirit. He simply wakes up and remembers that he has done so. That is why he can properly interpret philosophical or religious texts at a later time.

On the other hand, the vast majority of people seem to have either forgotten these experiences or only encounter spirit for the first time in presentations or texts. Unprepared, they desire egotistical answers to the mystery of inherent existence. They want an explanation for how the magic they perceive is in fact real.

And yes, I am aware that you already know this about people.


Eric Schiedler

[Rhett]

Eric, what do you think makes this awakening occur?

[Maximiliano Vignaga]

Me.

[Rhett]

Maximiliano, what do you think makes that awakening happen?

[Maximiliano Vignaga]

The right dose of suffering.

[Rhett]

Suffering is a motivator. But suffering in and of itself doesnt create awakening.

[Maximiliano Vignaga]

It doesn't, but it is a necessary component, not just a motivator.

Suffering + reading David's and Kevin's works + honestly, deeply reasoning + some luck = awakening.

[Rhett]

Yes, for there to be enlightenment there must first be delusion, and delusion in humans involves egotism and suffering, but no, suffering should not be on the list of things 'to do' towards becoming enlightened. You do not focus on or invoke suffering in order to gain ground towards enlightenment. You focus on coming to understand the nature of reality.

If a person has motivational issues because they think the process will involve more suffering than what they already experience, then maybe they need to focus on the value of investing in this, and net lifetime suffering. If someone hasnt thought about things enough to cause their delusion to more fully bring them into this world, they just need to keep working through it all.

One thing i would add to your list is lots of discussion

[Eric Schiedler]

Eric, what do you think makes this awakening occur?

At various times, I find that I forget the name of something. When I am talking about a famous movie, I may be able to describe parts of the movie but discover that the formal title escapes my memory. After an indeterminate period, the name clearly enters my mind and I further know that it is correctly so. And if I observe quite carefully, this pattern applies to all of my thoughts, as they either enter my mind or they do not. I can only predict my thoughts for practical purposes. How then could I presume to say how wisdom awakens in others?!

However, a bit more can be said in general terms.

An awakening is a clear, logical thought that contains complete and utter belief without any desire whatsoever. The mind holds an idea as true everywhere and everywhen. Therefore the thought lacks any time and contains no form whatsoever. The spirit awakens in this manner and I suspect the crucial factors are memory and concentration.

More poetically, I would say a will to know everything and to know oneself utterly, whatever the cost, becomes manifest in a given individual instead of another due to sufficient capacity to become everything.

Eric Schiedler

[Rhett]

Eric, what do you think makes this awakening occur?

At various times, I find that I forget the name of something. When I am talking about a famous movie, I may be able to describe parts of the movie but discover that the formal title escapes my memory. After an indeterminate period, the name clearly enters my mind and I further know that it is correctly so. And if I observe quite carefully, this pattern applies to all of my thoughts, as they either enter my mind or they do not. I can only predict my thoughts for practical purposes. How then could I presume to say how wisdom awakens in others?!

However, a bit more can be said in general terms.

An awakening is a clear, logical thought that contains complete and utter belief without any desire whatsoever. The mind holds an idea as true everywhere and everywhen. Therefore the thought lacks any time and contains no form whatsoever. The spirit awakens in this manner and I suspect the crucial factors are memory and concentration.

More poetically, I would say a will to know everything and to know oneself utterly, whatever the cost, becomes manifest in a given individual instead of another due to sufficient capacity to become everything.

Eric Schiedler

In all people, the process involves directing the intellect towards breaking down delusions, seeking truth, seeking Ultimate Truth, thinking about the nature of reality, no matter how threatening it is to the ego. The ego is an unnecessary and painful artifact, freedom requires its absence.

It is like chopping down a tree with a scalpel. The mind is always turning over, so set it to the task of enlightenment, and you will have an endless supply of blades. It could be said that the older you are generally the thicker is the trunk of the tree. You must remove more material than the tree can grow, and it will try to heal the wound, so ideally, hack at it with impunity.