Statement about Solway and Trump

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Post Reply
Serendipper
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:43 pm

Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Serendipper » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:16 am

Pam Seeback wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:19 am
The 'self' is made up of poetic or reasoned memories projected as 'other' and if these two ways of thinking are not clearly distinguished as being very different causalities they can become a congealed stew of a mixture of both. I am not saying that this is what is happening in this thread, only that it is a possibility. Traditionally on this forum, the poetic has been repressed in favour of the reasoned which is understandable in the early stages of awakening, but clearly for the three founders of this forum, this early stage has long past.

To clarify what I mean by 'poetic' in relation to this thread, I'll refer to a term Serendipper used in a previous thread, that of 'oceanic feeling.' The poetic then would be the natural desire to form 'other' from the oceanic feeling, as if one is rising into forms of infinite love, goodness and beauty. I realize not all forms of poetry are feeling-based, some are reasoned and hard (the Diamond Sutra comes to mind), but in the context of 'other' idealization, which I believe is the underlying 'theme' of this thread, feeling is the prime mover. From my experience, politics (and religion) is the futile attempt to blend the irrational idealized with the logically reasoned; no wonder the mental world of man is, for the most part, a hot mess. Give me the poetic or give me the reasoned, both are equally valid expressions of the infinite-in-time, but please, never the twain shall meet!
Wow that's insightful, Pam! Good work! I think this thread is one of the most valuable on the forum because we can really get to the nuts and bolts of what we are, but be careful what you say because 'they' might be reading ;)

I'm guilty of the occasional personification of some concept of "them" and it's perfectly natural to do so. The white nationalists call "them" jews. The mgtows call "them" feminists. The boomers call "them" communists. Without enemies, we can't have friends, so there must always be a line in the sand.

Join with us in the fight against collectivism https://freedomforceinternational.org/collectivism/ Seriously? LOL! It's us vs them.

Serendipper
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:43 pm

Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Serendipper » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:26 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:33 pm
So a fire is started and then needs to be put out, by the same person! It's madness! The definition of ignorance in action. Perhaps it was a conflict in search for a man to have it? Out-of-whack Trump hatred projected on general disappointment in parents -- even spiritual parentage?
Trump has been a boon to the psychiatric industry http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... -1.3414933

Otherwise sane people have absolutely lost their minds due to PTSD.

Serendipper
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:43 pm

Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Serendipper » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:23 am

Kevin Solway wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:32 am
I don't know when David wrote these comments, but I may as well respond to them now:
Hi Kevin! I was merely keeping notes as I read the thread, so the comments came from here and there throughout. I read yours and David's posts in one sitting (omitting everyone else due to time and mental fatigue).
David Quinn wrote:
From what I can see, the liberal establishment still represents the side of knowledge, science, facts
There's no way that a clear-seeing person can look at the avowedly "liberal" culture of Google and think that it is on the side of knowledge, science, and facts. They proudly fire people who speak the facts, such as with James Damore.
That pisses me off too. Are you in favor of declaring Google a public utility?
Likewise with the entire "liberal" media.
The media was once mandated to be "fair and balanced" with the fairness doctrine. Reagan ended that. Ironic that it would lean left promptly after.
Indeed, half the time when I speak to Kevin nowadays, I feel as though he is talking not to me but to those SJWs who are obviously causing him so much grief. It's as though he is in a perpetual fight with them in his brain.
I have an issue with people who claim the media is balanced and unbiased, and who treat the media as an authority - like a Christian who holds the Bible as gospel truth. I have an issue with those who dismiss large swathes of other people as sub-human because of their political views, and who malign others as "misogynist" or "racist", or "Nazi" or any other damning label, and who diagnose other people with mental illnesses, as though that means something. Calling people haters of women, and racists, is the primary, and most brutal, weapon of all SJWs, and I have no patience for it. I also don't like people claiming to be enlightened in an attempt to win some credibility for their political or social views. To do so is deeply fallacious, and in a multitude of ways. If reason is on your side then your reason will be persuasive.
The goodie-goodies are the thieves of virtue. The righteous ideological wars are the most damaging. When people embark on a crusade to do what is righteous, then everyone who doesn't do what is righteous is seen as sub-human. Hitler, after all, was doing god's work. https://youtu.be/UFfzVwGYs78?t=18m35s
Only when a person doesn't have reason on their side do they feel the need to claim authority, and to call names.
Slander is the tool of the loser - Socrates.

Pam Seeback
Posts: 2378
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Pam Seeback » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:33 am

Hi Serendipper:
I think this thread is one of the most valuable on the forum because we can really get to the nuts and bolts of what we are, but be careful what you say because 'they' might be reading ;)
To me this thread is valuable because it opened up the underbelly of enlightenment in relation to worldly matters.
I'm guilty of the occasional personification of some concept of "them" and it's perfectly natural to do so. The white nationalists call "them" jews. The mgtows call "them" feminists. The boomers call "them" communists. Without enemies, we can't have friends, so there must always be a line in the sand.
It may be perfectly natural to personify 'them' if one mixes worldly matters with the trans-personal wisdom of emptiness, but I am not one of 'them.' To me, there are two simple principles at work in the minds of men: ignorance of attachment and wisdom of emptiness. Trumpism clearly falls into the first category, with no political figure or collective system coming to mind that falls into the second.
Join with us in the fight against collectivism https://freedomforceinternational.org/collectivism/ Seriously? LOL! It's us vs them.
It is my experience that what frees man is enlightenment of causality and emptiness, nothing more is required, certainly not a collectively-assembled creed. Such a man can be born into the world of collectivism by whatever name it wears and not identify at all with its ideology. The saying "to be in the world but not of the world" comes to mind. An obvious question I am sure you have been asked before: do you not see the irony in forming a group (collective) that fights collectivism?

Serendipper
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:43 pm

Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Serendipper » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:01 pm

Pam Seeback wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:33 am
Hi Serendipper:
Hello :)
I think this thread is one of the most valuable on the forum because we can really get to the nuts and bolts of what we are, but be careful what you say because 'they' might be reading ;)
To me this thread is valuable because it opened up the underbelly of enlightenment in relation to worldly matters.
Yes and it's inspired some personal reflection as well.
I'm guilty of the occasional personification of some concept of "them" and it's perfectly natural to do so. The white nationalists call "them" jews. The mgtows call "them" feminists. The boomers call "them" communists. Without enemies, we can't have friends, so there must always be a line in the sand.
It may be perfectly natural to personify 'them' if one mixes worldly matters with the trans-personal wisdom of emptiness, but I am not one of 'them.'
What is the wisdom of the emptiness?

I think it's good not to label things. Even though labels facilitate communication by providing a tidy box in which to place complex concepts for expedited transport, labels cause people to gravitate together under a particular ideology (since people tend to gravitate anyway, any excuse will do). When folks started talking about MBTI, I thought, "Oh boy... another reason to segregate ourselves as if race, religion, politics, astrology et al weren't enough."

So people ask me what religion I am and I can only reply that I don't know; it doesn't have a name and would take forever to explain. Politics; same way. MBTI, I can't get past the first question :( So, I can't be one of 'them' because it seems I'm always standing alone... though often I feel in opposition to 'them' and can relate to the context of this thread.

I definitely feel Kevin's frustrations about silicon valley and it certainly feels like an entity unto itself. Google went from "do no evil" to aspiring to become evil incarnate via its righteous crusade of censorship against hate speech (whatever that means... I guess I'm being hateful now by being critical of 'dear leader'.) I go to other forums anxious to jump in the conversation only to find I'm neutered from the get-go because I may say something wrong or spam... presumed guilt. I just hate the SJW mindset that seems to have infested itself like a disease into culture and has taken a personhood all on its own. I think it's human tendency to personify things... somehow it works to the advantage of survival:

Maybe partly because of language and culture, humans have a hair-trigger tendency to attribute consciousness to everything around us. We attribute consciousness to characters in a story, puppets and dolls, storms, rivers, empty spaces, ghosts and gods. Justin Barrett called it the Hyperactive Agency Detection Device, or HADD. One speculation is that it’s better to be safe than sorry. If the wind rustles the grass and you misinterpret it as a lion, no harm done. But if you fail to detect an actual lion, you’re taken out of the gene pool. To me, however, the HADD goes way beyond detecting predators. It’s a consequence of our hyper-social nature. Evolution turned up the amplitude on our tendency to model others and now we’re supremely attuned to each other’s mind states. It gives us our adaptive edge. The inevitable side effect is the detection of false positives, or ghosts. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... urce=atlfb
Join with us in the fight against collectivism https://freedomforceinternational.org/collectivism/ Seriously? LOL! It's us vs them.
It is my experience that what frees man is enlightenment of causality and emptiness, nothing more is required, certainly not a collectively-assembled creed. Such a man can be born into the world of collectivism by whatever name it wears and not identify at all with its ideology. The saying "to be in the world but not of the world" comes to mind.
I see what you're saying.
An obvious question I am sure you have been asked before: do you not see the irony in forming a group (collective) that fights collectivism?
Yup, that's why I posted it. It's funny! Actually, Griffin makes a lot of sense in books and video, but when I went to his page, I could only laugh at the irony. I'm honestly not sure if he is aware.

Pam Seeback
Posts: 2378
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Pam Seeback » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:44 am

What is the wisdom of the emptiness?
This forum deals with wisdom of ultimate reality, the concept 'emptiness' is a Buddhist term that suggests the ultimate (absolute knowledge) of the nature of things. If you are interested in pursuing the concept, it is also known as "Sunyata".
I think it's good not to label things. Even though labels facilitate communication by providing a tidy box in which to place complex concepts for expedited transport, labels cause people to gravitate together under a particular ideology (since people tend to gravitate anyway, any excuse will do). When folks started talking about MBTI, I thought, "Oh boy... another reason to segregate ourselves as if race, religion, politics, astrology et al weren't enough."
While it is true that 'emptiness' is a concept, it is not a label. Instead, once intuitively understood, the concept 'emptiness' has the unique distinction of being the concept that cuts away attachment to all labels. And even though on the onset that sounds nihilistic, it is not, because there is a rich world of meaning to be revealed for the one who enters the conceptual world of 'Sunyata' or 'The Void.' Remember the truth that the self arises with thought of Other? Well, in this case Other is 'emptiness.'
So people ask me what religion I am and I can only reply that I don't know; it doesn't have a name and would take forever to explain. Politics; same way. MBTI, I can't get past the first question :( So, I can't be one of 'them' because it seems I'm always standing alone... though often I feel in opposition to 'them' and can relate to the context of this thread.
"I don't know" is an excellent answer in relation to belief systems of the I because it keeps the I open to receiving wisdom wherein one can say (and mean it) "I know." That is, of course, if that is one's goal.
I definitely feel Kevin's frustrations about silicon valley and it certainly feels like an entity unto itself. Google went from "do no evil" to aspiring to become evil incarnate via its righteous crusade of censorship against hate speech (whatever that means... I guess I'm being hateful now by being critical of 'dear leader'.) I go to other forums anxious to jump in the conversation only to find I'm neutered from the get-go because I may say something wrong or spam... presumed guilt. I just hate the SJW mindset that seems to have infested itself like a disease into culture and has taken a personhood all on its own. I think it's human tendency to personify things... somehow it works to the advantage of survival:
Every self has a narrative but only the self that knows that no narrative is ultimately true can "be in the world (of Silicon Valley for example) and not be of the world.

Serendipper
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:43 pm

Re: Statement about Solway and Trump

Post by Serendipper » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:43 am

Pam Seeback wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:44 am
What is the wisdom of the emptiness?
This forum deals with wisdom of ultimate reality, the concept 'emptiness' is a Buddhist term that suggests the ultimate (absolute knowledge) of the nature of things. If you are interested in pursuing the concept, it is also known as "Sunyata".
Oh I get it. Thanks! So, we're not to be married to ideas, yet we have this idea lol. Reminds me of Lao Tzu saying, "Those who know, do not speak; those who speak, do not know." And yet he said that.

I'm a little-bit drawn to the 4th way.. the middle way.
I think it's good not to label things. Even though labels facilitate communication by providing a tidy box in which to place complex concepts for expedited transport, labels cause people to gravitate together under a particular ideology (since people tend to gravitate anyway, any excuse will do). When folks started talking about MBTI, I thought, "Oh boy... another reason to segregate ourselves as if race, religion, politics, astrology et al weren't enough."
While it is true that 'emptiness' is a concept, it is not a label. Instead, once intuitively understood, the concept 'emptiness' has the unique distinction of being the concept that cuts away attachment to all labels. And even though on the onset that sounds nihilistic, it is not, because there is a rich world of meaning to be revealed for the one who enters the conceptual world of 'Sunyata' or 'The Void.' Remember the truth that the self arises with thought of Other? Well, in this case Other is 'emptiness.'
So, labeling is clinging. Subscribing to ideologies is clinging. Therefore we'll cling to the ideology of not clinging. This goes back to the old problem of how to desire not to desire and where the 4th way comes in, which is put nicely by Mark Twain, "All things in moderation; including moderation." We can't have an ideology of no ideology, but we can practice the ideology of no ideology in moderation which means we're not strictly adhering to any ideology (ie it's random... a muddling along... a dance we learn as we go). And that lack of a plan is true emptiness.
So people ask me what religion I am and I can only reply that I don't know; it doesn't have a name and would take forever to explain. Politics; same way. MBTI, I can't get past the first question :( So, I can't be one of 'them' because it seems I'm always standing alone... though often I feel in opposition to 'them' and can relate to the context of this thread.
"I don't know" is an excellent answer in relation to belief systems of the I because it keeps the I open to receiving wisdom wherein one can say (and mean it) "I know." That is, of course, if that is one's goal.
The goal is simply fun :)
I definitely feel Kevin's frustrations about silicon valley and it certainly feels like an entity unto itself. Google went from "do no evil" to aspiring to become evil incarnate via its righteous crusade of censorship against hate speech (whatever that means... I guess I'm being hateful now by being critical of 'dear leader'.) I go to other forums anxious to jump in the conversation only to find I'm neutered from the get-go because I may say something wrong or spam... presumed guilt. I just hate the SJW mindset that seems to have infested itself like a disease into culture and has taken a personhood all on its own. I think it's human tendency to personify things... somehow it works to the advantage of survival:
Every self has a narrative but only the self that knows that no narrative is ultimately true can "be in the world (of Silicon Valley for example) and not be of the world.
Seems right. There is no such thing as good or bad and it seems there is no way to fight monsters without also becoming a monster.

Post Reply