'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apart

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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SeekerOfWisdom
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'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apart

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

"Outward" contemplation being when a person contemplates an external topic. Science, politics, society and so on.

"Inward" contemplation being when a person contemplates one's own emotions, mistakes, thoughts, beliefs, views, actions, and so on.

Everyone is capable of the first, but most are utterly incapable of the second. The perceived mistakes and flaws of others are pointed out and discussed enthusiastically, but personal mistakes and flaws are incomprehensible, invisible or completely ignored. Criticizing or critiquing others is common place, but usually rare or non-existent for oneself. This lack of 'self-awareness' (ignorance) is so prevalent that I couldn't describe it sufficiently if I were to give a thousand examples. Is there a solution to this? It seems like a person will do anything to avoid having to contemplate inwardly, or simply doesn't know "how" to go about it, since it is an activity they have never engaged in, the possibility itself goes unrecognized. The only contemplation for the ignorant seems to be a sort of rash conjecture. So how does one lead another to gain an interest in extensive 'self-awareness' and contemplation?
Pam Seeback
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by Pam Seeback »

Emotions and beliefs are not separate from politics and science. It is impossible to reason the latter without involving the former.

The first step then to leading one to right view (I deliberately did not use your term 'self awareness') is to question the idea(s) of an external topic/internal self (wrong view).
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

You said "without involving the former", clearly such reasoning would involve emotions and beliefs, but you derail the clear point- that the emotions, beliefs and so on, are not the subject of that contemplation. The post made it clear that the terms 'inward' and 'outward' were not literal or local terms.

The first step you provided is unrealistic, wouldn't you agree? These people have never genuinely spent ten minutes contemplating anything close to what you suggest. They would likely either ignore, laugh at, scorn, or be completely uninterested by any such thing. How does one lead another to gain an interest? It seems as if their entire mindset is perfectly designed for avoiding such things, of course there might be a minute or two of rash conjecture in an entire year if you're lucky! Remember we're talking about the large majority of people here, as far as all the evidence I've been exposed to shows. How do you turn one into a philosopher?
Pam Seeback
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by Pam Seeback »

I have discovered from personal experience that if a person has no interest in questioning why they experience a sense of loss/incompleteness, they are not ready to find out the reason why.

I have been married for 40 years and my husband has made it clear to me that he has no interest whatsoever in exploring the nature of self/reality. There have been brief moments during the few philosophical conversations we have had when he has glimpsed what I am 'pointing to' but immediately he 'pulls back' and tells me he is afraid. This is not a problem for us as we have always had great respect for one another's individual life experiences. The truth is, except for one person in my non-online life who is drawn to Buddhism (but is not ready for its 'cold hard' truth of Anatta), there is no one I would identify as having any interest in truth inquiry.

What's the old adage? When the student is ready the teacher comes. Readiness is the key. When did you first question the truth of things? If you're anything like me, it began early.
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amerika
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by amerika »

SeekerOfWisdom wrote: "Inward" contemplation being when a person contemplates one's own emotions, mistakes, thoughts, beliefs, views, actions, and so on.
I agree that most are incapable of this, but I tend to see inward contemplation as use of logic and intuition to understand the world, so it is not merely self-focused. How does that fit with your vision?
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by SeekerOfWisdom »

movingalways wrote:I have discovered from personal experience that if a person has no interest in questioning why they experience a sense of loss/incompleteness, they are not ready to find out the reason why.

I have been married for 40 years and my husband has made it clear to me that he has no interest whatsoever in exploring the nature of self/reality. There have been brief moments during the few philosophical conversations we have had when he has glimpsed what I am 'pointing to' but immediately he 'pulls back' and tells me he is afraid.


I have had almost the exact same experience you describe, I was hoping there would some experience of a 'solution', but it really does seem near impossible without that readiness. Still, I will try and figure it out since whenever I am asked a question or advice it's not often in me to change my answer to suit what one might prefer to hear. For those without that interest, there are only ever temporary 'fixes', emotional salves, distractions, and so on. But I won't leave it unchallenged that suffering-causing ignorance has more power and prevalence than wisdom/liberation. Luckily, there's no rush.
movingalways wrote: When did you first question the truth of things? If you're anything like me, it began early.
About five years ago when I was seventeen, and it happened specifically because I thought that things were 'dream-like'. I was also never closely associated with any worldview, group or identity, and I never held others in too high a regard, such as teachers, priests, parents, public figures. Those may be related traits.
Pam Seeback
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by Pam Seeback »

I also have experienced a lifelong distrust in group-think. As a child I both longed to be a part of 'the group' but was repelled by the idea at the same time. I joined one group as a child, Brownies, only to leave after the first meeting when collective prayer was presented as a compulsory requirement. Being drawn to solitariness does seem to be a critical part of awakening.

Once truth is realized (beyond intellectual inquiry) 'others' may not want to hear the reason for one's steadfastness and single-mindedness, however, causality ensures that 'they' are effected just by being in the presence of truth realization. It can't be forgotten that most of life's 'analyses' are hidden from the conscious mind. The metaphor of the iceberg comes to mind.
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amerika
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by amerika »

movingalways wrote:I also have experienced a lifelong distrust in group-think.
Group-think creates a false target, a replacement for reality. No bueno.
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jupiviv
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by jupiviv »

@ amerika, Welcome to the forum.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you should calm down a bit with the posting. You're of course free to do whatever you want, but limiting the discussion to one or two topics at a time is more in line with the forum's theme. This is not a Twatter-like forum, where discussions are binary and current event oriented. Discussions often span weeks, with the number of posts sometimes roughly equalling the number of weeks.
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amerika
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by amerika »

jupiviv wrote:Don't take this the wrong way, but you should calm down a bit with the posting.
Let me tell you a story:

A man uses forums for thirty years. He comes to recognize certain toxic behaviors and their root.

He also develops a counter-strategy: accelerate past comfort zone.

:)
interchange
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Re: 'Outward' And 'Inward' Contemplation Are Lightyears Apar

Post by interchange »

Most do not learn to look inward because they never have needed to. To the rest of us, our early outside environment provided a hostility that we could not adapt to without looking inward and changing ourselves. Thus, we learned to do this and are baffled at the lack of this capacity in others and the lack of desire for such a capacity.
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