Enlightenment

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

What's interesting is innate generic images such as mother, father, god, friend, self etc

'All is empty' a conceptualised generic image (all).
brought to bear on existence.
.
TheImmanent
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:46 am

Re: Enlightenment

Post by TheImmanent »

Dennis Mahar wrote:What's interesting is innate generic images such as mother, father, god, friend, self etc

'All is empty' a conceptualised generic image (all).
brought to bear on existence.
.
Nothing sticks.
Pam Seeback
Posts: 2619
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Enlightenment

Post by Pam Seeback »

TheImmanent wrote:
Dennis Mahar wrote:What's interesting is innate generic images such as mother, father, god, friend, self etc

'All is empty' a conceptualised generic image (all).
brought to bear on existence.
.
Nothing sticks.
By "sticks" do you mean that nothing is reflected upon?
Leyla Shen
Posts: 3851
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: Flippen-well AUSTRALIA

Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

Dennis Mahar wrote:What's interesting is innate generic images such as mother, father, god, friend, self etc

'All is empty' a conceptualised generic image (all).
brought to bear on existence.
.
They're not innate. If anything, they're developmental. This is why Lacan, for example, isolates the mirror stage as a significant psychological moment. Seeing its own image in a mirror, the child makes the first self/other distinction in image (visual and phonological) form. Lacan, for instance, goes even so far as to say that the signifier brings the signified into being*, and not the other way around. What is your position, the reason you find this so interesting?

These things are not "brought to bear on" existence, but are what constitute the abstract aspect of human existence. You can no more annihilate them than you can annihilate speaking and abstraction. In buddhist speak, it's only when you comprehend their nature that you no longer cling to them: that is the only way to the "cessation of suffering".

*EDIT: What is meant by this is strictly not a referent (for an objective form), but that these pure signifiers signify nothing. That is Lacan's structure of the "unconscious".
Last edited by Leyla Shen on Sun May 25, 2014 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

And for Nietzsche, of course, they will be overcome!
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TheImmanent
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by TheImmanent »

movingalways wrote:
TheImmanent wrote:
Dennis Mahar wrote:What's interesting is innate generic images such as mother, father, god, friend, self etc

'All is empty' a conceptualised generic image (all).
brought to bear on existence.
.
Nothing sticks.
By "sticks" do you mean that nothing is reflected upon?
Infinite things are reflected upon. Nothing sticks in the sense that nothing is a thing-in-itself. The ego-experience is the view of things as separate things-in-themselves, thus a misconception. A privation of essence.
Pam Seeback
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Enlightenment

Post by Pam Seeback »

Dennis: All is empty' a conceptualised generic image (all).
brought to bear on existence.
Is spirit not always at-one-with its finite things?
Pam Seeback
Posts: 2619
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:40 pm

Re: Enlightenment

Post by Pam Seeback »

TheImmanent wrote:
movingalways wrote:
TheImmanent wrote:
Dennis Mahar wrote:What's interesting is innate generic images such as mother, father, god, friend, self etc

'All is empty' a conceptualised generic image (all).
brought to bear on existence.
.
Nothing sticks.
By "sticks" do you mean that nothing is reflected upon?
Infinite things are reflected upon. Nothing sticks in the sense that nothing is a thing-in-itself. The ego-experience is the view of things as separate things-in-themselves, thus a misconception. A privation of essence.
Now we're getting somewhere! Reflection on things = conceptualizing. Conscious reflection on things/reasoning cause and effect = wisdom.
TheImmanent
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:46 am

Re: Enlightenment

Post by TheImmanent »

movingalways wrote: Is spirit not always at-one-with its finite things?
Spirit is always at-one-with its finite things. Its finite things are not always at-one-with spirit in their own view. The ego-experience is the view of separation from the infinite spirit — that is, the expression of a misconception.
Dennis Mahar
Posts: 4082
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

And for Nietzsche, of course, they will be overcome!
Thomas the Tank Engine!
ultra positive.
Dennis Mahar
Posts: 4082
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm

Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Immy,

Nothing sticks[quote][/quote]

the past is in the past
the future is in the future

stuck is to confer significance upon
thus categorical thinking overcome.
Last edited by Dennis Mahar on Sun May 25, 2014 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

Dennis Mahar wrote:
And for Nietzsche, of course, they will be overcome!
Thomas the Tank Engine!
ultra positive.
Cute, for a two-year-old.

And in that light, it's not difficult for those with their eyes open to see, like Nietzsche, even at this time how distant is the possibility.

As for Nietzsche, Preacher Dennis, his is the voice of a realist:
Now it seems to me, if you will hear my answer and its perhaps extravagant supposition, that the subtlety and strength of consciousness are always in proportion to the capacity for communication of a man (or an animal), the capacity for communication in its turn being in proportion to the necessity for communication: the latter not to be understood as if precisely the individual himself who is master in the art of communicating and making known his necessities would at the same time have to be most dependent upon others for his necessities. It seems to me, however, to be so in relation to whole races and successions of generations: where necessity and need have long compelled men to communicate with their fellows and understand one another rapidly and subtly, a surplus of the power and art of communication is at last acquired as if it were a fortune which had gradually accumulated, and now waited for an heir to squander it prodigally (the so-called artists are these heirs, in like manner the orators, preachers, and authors: all of them men who come at the end of a long succession, "late-born" always, in the best sense of the word, and as has been said, squanderers by their very nature).
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Fred is all about embeddedness.

embodied
encultured
enactive
affective
extended environmentally

he is concerned about Supply.
he is afraid of loss and wants to protect something.
what?

His 'coming from' and 'out of which' is thoughts and reality the magnum opus.
'You provide the meaning'.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

No worries, love. Thanks for the unsolicited sermon, ad nauseum.

You and I have nothing to discuss.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Do you get eternal recurrence as embeddedness?

you're not preaching to me?

tell me, are we not consciousness-embedded?
Leyla Shen
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:12 pm
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Mirror, mirror...

Post by Leyla Shen »

What's interesting is innate generic images such as mother, father, god, friend, self etc

'All is empty' a conceptualised generic image (all).
brought to bear on existence.
.
They're not innate. If anything, they're developmental. This is why Lacan, for example, isolates the mirror stage as a significant psychological moment. Seeing its own image in a mirror, the child makes the first self/other distinction in image (visual and phonological) form. Lacan, for instance, goes even so far as to say that the signifier brings the signified into being*, and not the other way around. What is your position, the reason you find this so interesting?

These things are not "brought to bear on" existence, but are what constitute the abstract aspect of human existence. You can no more annihilate them than you can annihilate speaking and abstraction. In buddhist speak, it's only when you comprehend their nature that you no longer cling to them: that is the only way to the "cessation of suffering".

*EDIT: What is meant by this is strictly not a referent (for an objective form), but that these pure signifiers signify nothing. That is Lacan's structure of the "unconscious".

And for Nietzsche, of course, they will be overcome!
...:
"And for Nietzsche, of course, they will be overcome!"

Thomas the Tank Engine!
ultra positive.
A preacher does not engage in discussion, particularly one who preaches absolute meaninglessness. Even his questions are sermons.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

I did not say absolute meaningless.

I said an argument is empty and meaningless that its empty and meaningless until you provide the meaning.
the argument lacks its own essence.
an argument is for enrolment or otherwise.

tell me, are we consciousness-embedded?
Leyla Shen
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: Flippen-well AUSTRALIA

Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

Why, Dennis. You don't have to literally say it! You actually embody it since you never provide an "argument" with meaning. You just keep giving us that same old sermon. And then you do it again when you are told there's nothing to discuss with you. You're the only one who doesn't get what it is you're preaching, and that's the essential subtlety in the Nietzsche quotes which, as a result, keep flying right past you. So, we end up witnessing the same old exchange over, and over, and over again. Strangely, you appear to think it has something to do with enlightenment, the reason which, of course, you never disclose in favour of...your usual sermon.
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Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

tell me, are we consciousness-embedded?
I will not answer any of your questions, latent and otherwise, until you actually answer directly and coherently every question I have asked you. You're in deficit, Preacher Man!
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Neitzsche is concerned about Supply.

He even mentioned in passing he never met a gash worth the effort.
Lack of Supply.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

...said the Gash.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The MO of philosophy/philosophers is to make out conditions are terrible/ something is wrong/ something to fix.
something is lacking and there's something to protect.
a protection racket.
a player becomes a king by convincing of 'suffering' with winning formula supplied.
suffering is the easy access to get in.
there's nothing wrong with that and nothing to fix.

Dependent arising.
bliss.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

What?
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Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

I can't hear you.
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Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

dependent arsing.

Bliss
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