Enlightenment

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Dennis Mahar wrote:It lacks inherent existence. That recognition dissolves affectivity in the form of afflictive emotion. The conceptualising mind is understood.
But you don't sound like you understand that much about your own mind yet. Dissolution of affectivity is not being demonstrated by violence against even simple sentence structure, logic, reasoning and proper discourse. All those twists and aborted sentences express more like a hurt and a fix, a way to ban affliction by repeat, by empty words, by the fantasy of teaching anyone, to calm the nerve ends. What is shown is a troubled mind, although as well an unusual sensitive and intelligent mind perhaps, once, which ran into trouble and found a string of "fixes", a set of convictions and tricks which could wipe the black board. But it has to be maintained since it's not based in understanding. And you're maintaining it right here and in your class. You have to! It's not philosophy at all upon examination but it uses that language and some of the books to give it cover.
Dennis Mahar wrote:The Buddha sat down by the tree disgusted because all reasoning failed him to that point.
But you're twisting the story around here to benefit your own belief. The story tells with some detail about failure with material wealth, marriage, extreme asceticism, begging, yogic meditation achieving "high levels of meditative consciousness" but also deprivation and self-mortification. He rejected all that in the end. Although the self-mortification brought some collapse, some insight, like Nietzsche embracing that horse in Turin perhaps. And that brings hope because in communication you're self-mortifying as well as method for some "high consciousness" which might not be what you think it is.

But nothing there in Buddha's conversion at all about any reasoning "failing'. If anything only now he ventured into finding "truth" and started teaching "pathways" using the language of reason and introspection. Only written in a specific way to relay and memorize it easier. In modern times we don't need to speak and write that way anymore.
Dennis Mahar wrote:It's about the object appearing, an object-oriented philosophy. Seeing thru the names and forms.
There's nothing to "see" beyond names and forms. One can reason beyond it though. Essence, understanding, path and liberation of ignorance.
TheImmanent
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by TheImmanent »

There is no one letting go. A recognition taking place, and the one who would let go is gone, along with that which he would let go.
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ardy
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by ardy »

TheImmanent wrote:There is no one letting go. A recognition taking place, and the one who would let go is gone, along with that which he would let go.
TheImmanent: Your statement agrees with my understanding.

There is no logic that can take you to this point. No words, no rational discussions, no reading, will take you there.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Everyone is under house arrest in 'DiebertWorld'.
all the little broken tools (;
crimes and misdemeanors.
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ardy
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by ardy »

Just posted this on another thread but it may be useful here. This is Shantanand discussing enlightenment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1YXUfs9lcw
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Dennis Mahar wrote:Everyone is under house arrest in 'DiebertWorld'.
all the little broken tools (;
crimes and misdemeanors.

You mean a world of discussion and laying out ones thought with discernment and rationality? Imperfect as they can be?

Yes, that's the prison you keep on trying to escape. You can't stand it! But no fear: you can always rely on good old ridicule and debasement: ressentiment of the thought criminal!

Which is different from any strong critique which is actually making points and valid references. You don't see the difference, of course.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »


And Dennis, why not just be a man and show honesty before others and admit your claim "The Buddha sat down by the tree disgusted because all reasoning failed him to that point" is nonsense and not based on anything at all. It's just your view and your own disgust speaking. Just stick it out but not put it in the mouth of some imagined Buddha! If Buddha would be a puppy dog you'd let him wear a shock collar, way too much reasoning barking in your ears! And you'll think of a reason to do so.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

You and not-you is Buddha mind.
geddit?
conceptualising mind.
meaningmaker.
your insistence that difference is true nature hurts sanity.

all things must pass.
grist for the mill.

pardon me boys, is this the chattanoogoo choo choo.
big wheel turnin'.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

You and not-you is Buddha mind.
your insistence that difference is true nature hurts sanity.
geddit?
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Buddha mind is a condition.
In order to for the sake of.
tool-being.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

Insanity is a condition.
In order to for the sake of.
tool-being.
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Bobo
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Bobo »

I won't say I did warn you.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Causes/conditions.
dependent arising.
you can't say anything else.
cannot be refuted.

don't say you weren't warned.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

Well, the warning might've been worth it if I couldn't discern what it was in the first place.

The only thing caught in a reflection is the reflection.
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Leyla Shen
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Who is Alice?

Post by Leyla Shen »

Alice came to a fork in the road. "Which road do I take?" she asked.
"Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire Cat.
"I don't know," Alice answered.
"Then," said the Cat, "it doesn't matter."
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Bobo
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Bobo »

Well, all words lead to home...
Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

Yes, they do. It's quite clear then whose words lead to Wonderland.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

You contradicted yourself there.
Bobo
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Bobo »

Then, there is not where it is coming from.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Bobo wrote:Then, there is not where it is coming from.
That form?
An idea?
tool-being.
Leyla Shen
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Leyla Shen »

Dennis Mahar wrote:You contradicted yourself there.
No, I didn't. You're just far too simple-minded to grok it.
causes/conditions
geddit?
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Leyla Shen
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No doors

Post by Leyla Shen »

Houseflies, buzzing around glass windows inside a mansion built by men.
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Bobo
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Bobo »

Form that idea being a tool.
An idea tool being that form.
Form that tool being an idea.
An idea that form being tool.
An idea being tool form that.

Wonder woman. Roads are built by man.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Dennis Mahar wrote:You and not-you is Buddha mind. Geddit? Conceptualising mind. Meaningmaker.
And Dennis mind is about reveling in meaninglessness. Safe house. Understandable as we're born into bunkers inside a war.
Like some fearful children, hiding in the bomb shelter, closing their eyes and going to a happy place. Bliss.
Buddha grenade was alarm bell: life is suffering. Wake-up! Only now we can start looking for truths about it.
your insistence that difference is true nature hurts sanity.
It only hurts you. Gettit? Sharp objects, always a threat even to the biggest of snails.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Enlightenment

Post by Dennis Mahar »

I foresaw you could only write or speak causes/conditions thus affirming dependent arising.
cannot be refuted.

uncanny.

emptiness/bliss.
wonderfulness.
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