"Empirical Disproof"

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Leyla Shen
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"Empirical Disproof"

Post by Leyla Shen »

Is this guy serious?

If there is a single empirical proof for the theory of evolution that refutes at the same time just one claim in the so-held infallible Bible (which the Kuran attests is the work and title of the same god), then the Abrahamic god has indeed been "empirically disproven".
If he empirically disproved the existence of God tomorrow I would laud him for his fine work in the pursuit of truth, [...]
.

Greenwald and Hussain on Sam Harris and Racism
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Tomas
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Tomas »

Leyla Shen wrote:Is this guy serious?

If there is a single empirical proof for the theory of evolution that refutes at the same time just one claim in the so-held infallible Bible (which the Kuran attests is the work and title of the same god), then the Abrahamic god has indeed been "empirically disproven".
If he empirically disproved the existence of God tomorrow I would laud him for his fine work in the pursuit of truth, [...]
.

Greenwald and Hussain on Sam Harris and Racism
Another reason I don't ascribe to Abraham, Isaac nor Jacob.

All are myth.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

How to empirical "disproof" anything at all? You can falsify in scientific sense a statement, hypothesis, or theory but not some concept or belief. Or a complex body of fluctuating interpretations and scholarship which is all bible/Kuran reading. The veracity of the books in the Bible does not equal the veracity of God and its possible "infallibleness" is depending on the interpretative school one happens to be in.

Evolution might be able to falsify the theory of a superior being creating humans from dust and clay but only if that is positioned as science which it isn't since there are no real details in that sense to verify or deny. One can only conclude that it's no scientific description of any event in the first place. That there's no "alternative" theory here. Some believers whose world view is summed up by a collection of simple stories of course do see those alternatives since the "devil is in the details". Together with God perhaps?

I do not understand much of Harris' indignation at all. Murtaza Hussain seems to say he wouldn't object to Harris challenging God, Allah, Kuran (or if he "blasphemed a million Quran’s") but is instead objecting to perceived Islamophobia. And for Harris to even suggest that currently European fascists are "talking sensibly about the threat that Islam poses to Europe" qualifies Harris as having submitted his brain to idiocy and ignorance in my opinion.
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Leyla Shen »

(Hi, Tomas.(: )
Together with God perhaps?
Who/what?
Diebert wrote:
Murtaza Hussain seems to say he wouldn't object to Harris challenging God, Allah, Kuran (or if he "blasphemed a million Quran’s") but is instead objecting to perceived Islamophobia.
It does seem that way, doesn't it?

He demonstrates a wonderfully graceful command of the English language, with the singularly distinct (and I suggest quite deliberate) exception of the phrase "disprove empirically".

What is Islamophobia? I myself was called a Nazi by a socialist because I said I supported the French proposal to "ban" the burqa.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Leyla Shen wrote:
...the "devil is in the details". Together with God perhaps?
Who/what?
The devil. In the details. Whole pantheons reside there often organizing holy festivals and sublime parades on the tip of a needle. ;-p
What is Islamophobia?
Exaggerated fear for the corruption of Western society, its mores and values by some generic Muslim "ideology". In some instances there are very practical issues to be addressed but there's often no clear link to Muslim thought as a whole (those details again!) and also it's unsure what's being corrupted exactly.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Tomas wrote:Another reason I don't ascribe to Abraham, Isaac nor Jacob. All are myth.
Myth or not but the city Abraham was supposed to originate from is not: 4000 year old administative building of Ur uncovered.
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Kunga »

Islamophobia is prejudice against, hatred towards, or irrational fear of Muslims
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

So good of you that you can quote Wikipedia's first sentence! And that for what seems to have been a rhetorical question (look that up too) from someone who knows that shit better than I would ever do.

Read this twice to absolve: Sam Harris, the New Atheists, and anti-Muslim animus
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Kunga
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Kunga »

[quote="Diebert van Rhijn"]So good of you that you can quote Wikipedia's first sentence! And that for what seems to have been a rhetorical question (look that up too) from someone who knows that shit better than I would ever do.

If it was a rhetorical question, why did you attempt to answer it Diebert ? Also, why are you so pissed off ? Because you gave a wrong definition & I gave the correct definition ? Get a grip ! What difference does it make if I copy/pasted from Wiki ? Giving the correct answer is more important.


p.s. i knew what it ment....but i just wanted to be sure ....so i checked (because you're answer sounded wrong and you are always right... :)
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Captain Crunch
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Captain Crunch »

Tea?

Leyla,

All-these infallible, so-called, Deities play an important role in the "New Jerusalem'. Whether, it be Neitsche's so-called Anti-Christ, or, the biblical/Hebrew term for 'Christ.'

The beauty of Creation/vs. the Evolution. Is. that-the Koran and the Bible haven't missed One-Jot of information. '

For better words' you've heard of the 10 commandments'? That's proof i.e. enough that you play an important role in God's Creation. Now, the 'Creator' doesn't have abide in your' lifestyle. You're circumstances' are what they are. Just' the proof' which you've underlined' isn't big enough' to fit the whole picture. I'm talking about a New' Creature'; a real-Posieden.

I will' rally this' message' later...BTW
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Leyla Shen »

Kunga wrote:Islamophobia is prejudice against, hatred towards, or irrational fear of Muslims
So, Kunga; do you think Harris is Islamophobic, or are you just chasing Diebert around the forum?
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Kunga »

Leyla Shen wrote:
Kunga wrote:Islamophobia is prejudice against, hatred towards, or irrational fear of Muslims
So, Kunga; do you think Harris is Islamophobic, or are you just chasing Diebert around the forum?
Yes he is. No I isn't.
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Leyla Shen »

Then you should be informed that the only possible "correct answer" to a rhetorical question is an actual argument refuting the opposing position.
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Cahoot »

Book of Matthew:

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

"Firstborn son" has been deemed a convention of speech, but perhaps siblings were simply obscured by the big shadow.
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Kunga
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Kunga »

Some Information on the Highly Sensitive Person
Roughly 20% of the population struggle with high sensitivity. Typical traits include the following:

1. As students, they work differently from other people. They often pick up on subtleties and may think deeply about a subject before sharing in a discussion or contributing in a classroom setting. (This does not necessarily mean they don’t understand the material, or are too shy to speak in public. It has more to do with the way the person processes information.)

2. They tend to be highly conscientious in their work. They notice and pay attention to details, and they think things through very carefully. Also, often being highly sensitive is equated with higher levels of intelligence, being highly intuitive and having a vivid imagination. Highly sensitive individuals work and learn best in quiet and calm environments.

3. Highly sensitive students and employees generally underperform when they are being evaluated. They are highly conscious of being watched, and this inhibits their ability to function at their peak.

4. Although some individuals who are born with this trait may seem to be more introverted by nature, being introverted and highly sensitive do not always go together. Instead, environmental factors have a greater influence on how the individual feels and reacts.

5. People with high sensitivity are more sensitive to both negative and positive experiences. Thus, they are more affected by rough treatment, pain, heartaches and insensitivity from others … but also seem to benefit more from being treated with kindness, care and thoughtfulness.

6. Other common characteristics of the highly sensitive person being easily over-stimulated (hence the need for quiet and calm), being more emotionally reactive than others, and having higher levels of empathy.
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Kunga
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Kunga »

Leyla Shen wrote:Then you should be informed that the only possible "correct answer" to a rhetorical question is an actual argument refuting the opposing position.

Thank you Leyla. I know I am not sophisticated when it comes to debating....i know nothing about the rules of engagement. So I learned something today :)
I just thought rhetorical questions were those that didn't require a response....

_/\_
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Kunga
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Kunga »

facepalm
Leyla Shen
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Leyla Shen »

"Do you mean that you think you can find out the answer to it?" said the March Hare.

"Exactly so," said Alice.

"Then you should say what you mean," the March Hare went on.

"I do," Alice hastily replied; "at least—at least I mean what I say—that's the same thing, you know."

"Not the same thing a bit!" said the Hatter. "You might just as well say that 'I see what I eat' is the same thing as 'I eat what I see'!"
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Kunga »

I almost stopped to get a bottle of wine , after drining tea all day too........this will have to do now..

http://www.mindthesciencegap.org/wp-con ... 040071.jpg
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Tomas
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Tomas »

Leyla Shen wrote:(Hi, Tomas.(: )
Hello Dear :-)

Busy time of year for me.

We bought another house (we've 27 now) a couple weeks ago. Just closing on it this week. Then its to go in and tear out the floors and walls. Gut the basement and put in a hot water heat system before winter. A few solar panels on the roof after shingling. New siding etc.

Much love...
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Leyla Shen »

27?!

Blimey, Tomas!

Sounds like your life's work?

Do you/did you used to do the renovations yourself?
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Tomas
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Tomas »

Leyla Shen wrote:27?!

Blimey, Tomas!

Sounds like your life's work?

Do you/did you used to do the renovations yourself?
About 15 years ago, I had a change of life moment. Spoke back and forth with the girlfriend (common-law wife of 45 years - we never married) about what I was going through. She operates her own business and we would work out the gigs together and amalgamate them as smoothly as possible. Christie graduated from University of North Dakota law school. Never took the bar exam. She is my intellectual equal if not more. I am blessed (and danged happy) that she accepted me into her life all those years ago.

They are all residential properties, one of our daughters (she has her mom's smarts) runs the financial operation (and collecting, detailing the rents etc) as smoothly as can be. She is good with her mind and hands thus the repair work needed to get the house to local code and then is rented out generally with a five year lease. Remember, North Dakota has a five to six month winter season. The melt just begun in earnest some two days ago, lots a snow this last winter.

The electrical is contracted out and most of the plumbing is given to my cousin who is a plumber. I do the phone and computer wiring which is low tech to think out with phones and computer hookups in the double / triple garages. They are also heated by a pig tank hot water heat system. My daughter does the work on gas pipes, hot water heat work. We change all our furnaces to hot water heat so only a pig tank is needed to hold the water along with the pipes etc. Some of the more detailed carpentry is left to another family friend going back three generations. Any brick work and windows are done by this union guy that goes back a long time. Concrete, foundations, sidewalks, driveways etc done by an old friend of mine. Same with the sodding it goes to an old buddy of mine and I help out on that. The girlfriend does the tree planting and flowers etc. "Ernie" does the composting and the solar panels on roof, garage etc.

My knees haven't liked to shingle the roof so that work is done by a friend of the family. I do the drywall, lay carpet if the tenant wants it wherever or not. The daughter and I do the floors in all other respects, tiling whatever.

We pay above the going rate on whatever work we have others do. One can never have enough real friends.

We're in talks for another house in a couple months. The economy is booming due to the Bakken oil fields nearby. I have mineral and land rights on some 900 acres. My property is some five, ten years from the crude fields. If I don't live to see the oil wells my children will.
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Leyla Shen
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Re: "Empirical Disproof"

Post by Leyla Shen »

Well, Tomas. You sound very busy!

One thing I must ask:
We pay above the going rate on whatever work we have others do. One can never have enough real friends.
Bought friendships are real friendships? So, then, the wealthier you are the more genuine you are as a human being, and the poorer the lesser?
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THE POWER OF MONEY

Post by Leyla Shen »

Here's one of my favourite quotes from Marx:
He who can buy bravery is brave, though he be a coward. As money is not exchanged for any one specific quality, for any one specific thing, or for any particular human essential power, but for the entire objective world of man and nature, from the standpoint of its possessor it therefore serves to exchange every quality for every other, even contradictory, quality and object: it is the fraternisation of impossibilities. It makes contradictions embrace.
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