I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:22 pm

I know exactly what you mean and I see how it would happen, but I very much doubt she suggested this, how the heck does one end up having so many sessions of just looking at eachother? Did you convince her into it or something?

I see your point but I don't see why it is a better option.

Dennis Mahar
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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:08 pm

I saw the girl around, life had beat her up a bit, she thought I was OK and she came around Saturday's to hang out.

I listened to her bullshit drama for a couple of months out of politeness 'cos she's a good kid.

Listen seeker, you've realised concepts and conceptual constructs are a load of rubbish.
that truth is nonconceptual.


anyway,
being-there with another person without speaking and trying to look cute,
develops a profound respect for each other and clears the mind.
a relationship of extraordinary subtlety becomes possible.



pissing concepts into each others ear and trying to impress is disgusting.

sitting in a room alone meditating is OK.
but open eyed meditation with a real life person in front of you is confronting and powerful because the thoughts/feelings are heightened.
You don't get around in the world sitting on a cushion with your eyes closed do you?
No! you face people.

SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:03 pm

That's some intelligent shit.

But people cling, I have no reason to attempt to end that clinging, it would be close to impossible, and even if it weren't, still not much of a reason, she is fairly enlightened and I'm one of the few not desiring more than "what has been given" to me.

Btw, your impression? It will clearly be a good one but there is a follow up.

"This body will be dissolved
and no amount of sacrifice will save it.
Therefore, seek the life that is of the mind.
Where self is, truth cannot be;
When truth comes, self will disappear.
Therefore, let your mind rest in the truth;
propagate the truth, put your whole will in it, and let it spread.
In the truth you shall live forever.

Self is death and truth is life.
The cleaving to self is a perpetual dying,
while moving in the truth
is partaking of Nirvana
which is life everlasting."

Dennis Mahar
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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:01 pm

It's a crock of shit that verse.
When Buddha gave his teaching and noticed the response he said:
They're gonna muck this up.
That verse mucks it up.

Buddha was talking to you, the individual.
Transforming your consciousness.
Individuating you.

Confirm this for me,
when you 'grokked' emptiness,
wasn't your consciousness instantly made fresh, expansive,
were you not filled with an unshakeable conviction,
were you not filled with warmth and generosity of spirit,
did not worldly matters diminish in importance,
were you not filled with courage,
whether a beggar or king there is no difference

was there not a swelling of pleasure,
afflictive emotions a thing of the past

SeekerOfWisdom
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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:48 am

Others probably would muck it up but I understand completely what it means and it rings true, "make a fortress of your mind" or "clinging to self is a perpetual dying", the only problem people might have had is misunderstanding the eternal life part.

Yes I can relate to those things although I also stopped caring a whole lot, the conviction you speak of was an early thing, eventually it comes down to non-action. I was filled with happiness and ease with the incredible nature of life and still am, that is due mostly to the great freedom of removing attachment to delusions.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:05 am

The worlds experienced by the one bound by suffering and the one
freed from suffering are not different worlds. Nirvana is nothing more
than a shift in understanding the world and a new way of reacting to it.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:37 am

It's not like I think eternal life means going up to heaven after death lol, it's already here, that shift in understanding/perspective is what removes the delusions and frees you, the fear of death and self attachment.

Was it much better after having emptied all ties or attachments? I deal with some people simply because I don't see the reason to end having to deal with them, but if it is a considerable difference in freedom I will take it.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:14 pm

I deal with some people simply because I don't see the reason to end having to deal with them, but if it is a considerable difference in freedom I will take it.
A reason would be if they started giving you a hard time.
for the time being they are filling the hole pleasantly.

holes and fillers.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dan Rowden » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:25 pm

Yes, there's nothing worse than having your hole filled unpleasantly.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:22 pm

Lol a new profound way to look at pincho's TOE.

Some people do give me hard times, and even family members put their holes On display, but a lot of the time I just don't have it in me to intentionally bring people pain or loneliness, "good kids"as you say, surely you can understand, there isn't a good enough reason, I'd rather put up with attachment than have to crush people.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:59 pm

We'd have to discuss 'bounded' and 'freedom'

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:25 pm

Freedom is retained in the mind not the situation. I'm fine with whatever happens to me, if I weren't then I would have reason to change things.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:20 pm

freedom is a 'lack', it's not a thing,
it's a lack of boundedness.

as emptiness is not a thing,
emptiness is a lack of self nature

phenomenally, a lack of self-nature is not evident,
it has to be 'grokked'.

if the girl lacks self-nature,

what is she?

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:02 pm

An illusion, a possibility in a dream, nothing more than something seen, the same as my own form. It isn't a lack of boundedness in things to do, it's a lack of feeling bounded/attached to the things you do.

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Kunga
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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Kunga » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:06 am

Dennis Mahar wrote:freedom is a 'lack', it's not a thing,
it's a lack of boundedness.

as emptiness is not a thing,
emptiness is a lack of self nature

phenomenally, a lack of self-nature is not evident,
it has to be 'grokked'.

if the girl lacks self-nature,

what is she?

If form is emptiness and emptiness is form
then emptiness is also boundless...and lacks nothing...
as everything is empty, it is also full (of it), lol

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:34 am

emptiness and dependent origination are observations concerning phenomena.
they are in the empirical domain.

they provide an identity.
that all phenomena lacks self-nature and arises dependently.
That means a condition.

they are a framework to hang all things on.

They are in the empirical domain of differentiation.

Finally they have to be 'let go' because ultimately, Reality is seamless, undivided, undifferentiated.
The original nature is unconditioned.

form is empty
empty is form
empty is empty

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:17 pm

non-attached sight of the seamless to see that bad isn't any worse than good, nor good any better than bad. I would say this is the essence of our lack of ambition, from non-attachment also comes non-attachment to feeling.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:07 pm

Reality is prior to language, concept and conceptual construct.

seeker, when you say 'illusion' and 'dream',
they are merely conventional terms,
perhaps useful as pointers, but certainly differentiations that generate duality, as Dan said, and obfuscating.

when you and the girl pair off, languaging happens,
a conceptual construct emerges which is shared,
a Story to 'live' as a possibility.
a make-believe.
Cinderella and the dashing prince probably.

not saying good/bad, right/wrong.
it's that language generates meaning.
meaning is 'what to do'.
doing is the meaning 'what now'.
a project.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:16 pm

Any description is a wrong one, but language is only ever pointers, vision of the mind is a pointer, but it has a meaning that describes these understandings. Yes make believe, but is your option to end all interaction? I just live and keep this whole perspective to myself mostly, you still have to spend yourlots of time, what differs in doing it this way or that way, none is more correct or beneficial, nothing left to gain, change comes by itself.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:38 pm

the utter purposelessness
and futility of all things and yet at the same time that meaninglessness of life, the very motivation for joy,
humour, zest, vitality,
Zen!

you are the meaning maker
it's up to you

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by SeekerOfWisdom » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:19 pm

Was it as nice this morning where you are in Aus as it was in Sydney? If so... that's some meaning for ya.

'Majesty' seems to be the source of meaning.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Pam Seeback » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:45 am

Dennis Mahar wrote:emptiness and dependent origination are observations concerning phenomena.
they are in the empirical domain.

they provide an identity.
that all phenomena lacks self-nature and arises dependently.
That means a condition.

they are a framework to hang all things on.

They are in the empirical domain of differentiation.

Finally they have to be 'let go' because ultimately, Reality is seamless, undivided, undifferentiated.
The original nature is unconditioned.

form is empty
empty is form
empty is empty
Indeed.

Which means that when one lets go of the last thread of the empirical domain of differentiation, they are seamless, undivided, undifferentiated, unconditioned. As far as I can see, that final letting go into the unconditioned happens, for the enlightened one, at physical death. No rebirth into the empirical domain of differentiation! Until then, 'he' [it] is sustained by the condition of bliss.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:48 pm

Hooray!
Thanks Pam.

I am empty.
Universe is empty.

As such I am Universe.
Nonduality.

Correct view empirically.

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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Pam Seeback » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:35 am

Thanks Dennis. A poem about the condition of bliss:

I see you now without my clothes.
You have always seen me without my clothes.
When I say nothing of Wisdom's sight
You fill me
Until you say something.

Will your rainbow words
Say world come with me
I will show you your nakedness.
Or will they sing only of lovelight
No breadcrumbs laid down
Only your spilling.

I do not know your rainbow's dress.
This is the blessing.

Dennis Mahar
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Re: I, Unidian, "Naturyl," James Quirk, am a popcorn maker.

Post by Dennis Mahar » Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:07 am

the 'understanding' gets conceptual clarity,
how, when ,who, where, what, why dissolves ultimately.

understanding and mood are experienced not in isolation,
thought carries feeling carries thought,
as if machinery.

being-there as bliss,
dependently arisen,

a possibility for continuum

breakthru'.

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