A few topics...what are your thougts?

[KiraIsJustice]

I welcome you to my thread.

What in your opinion is the main goal(s) an intelligent being has in this universe?
What on earth actually has a value?

I think the only value on earth is the intelligence, which we can see in all the complex structures of the universe and also
becomes manifest in a few chosen human beings, like us.
Of course, this thougt is relative, there might be a species out there which considers itself as superior, and us as in inferior.
So there is some sort of relativity in intelligence, and at least we are at a point in evolution, where this intelligence really matters.
Just think of the nuclear bomb. What power that came from the thougts of some physicists, that can unfold almost the greatest known power in the universe.

And the univerese itself creates these human beings and with this human beings it can feel itself.
Just imagine a universe which doesn't have consciousness or the 5 senses.
Such a universe would just oversleep it's very own existence.
Consciousness, like we have one, makes life valuable and important, and it is also important for intelligence and knowledge.
Like this, we can experience, develope, have discussions in our own mind, reflect on life and death.
I think once in a while we should be thankful for this gift.
A universe with infinite possiblities choses to make you out of nothing.
And this think of coming out of nothing with birth and going back with death. It looks like a closed loop.
Maybe in a far far future once again there are the conditions to support exactly your consciousness.

But again, this thougt is relative, just to often the universe has proven our humble ideas and opinions wrong,
and I really expect that it will do that once again with all the primitive thougts we have about an infinite universe.

Your opinion?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Hi Kira, welcome but is it really your thread? :)

I think value and goal come forth out of defining oneself as "intelligent being". Being equals to persistence and is defined by the ability to persist and as such will prioritize its own makeup. Intelligence seems more like a particular method to "be" against the odds. It's like a string of DNA being more persistent than a random arrangements of molecules. Organization persists: "becomes". Becoming begets becoming.

So I think intelligence values intelligence but not for any particular reason but just to remain consistent. It's like there are two main directions: self-affirmation or to perish.

[Olaf]

Of course, everything I think is relative because of that exact reason: I think. While I actually disagree with Plato about his whole cave analogy, when asking what our goal is in the universe, it has to be taken into account. If the purpose is just to live a happy life, then does it matter if nothing actually exists, but if we are meant for bigger things, then it does.

Which brings me to that overused quotation about a happy pig and a sad Socrates. Personally I think that in general day-to-day life, I would happily be the pig. But when thinking about a better existence, I would pick Socrates. Humanity cannot work if half are happy to do things one way, and the other half want them to do things their own way or die, and that is the ultimatum our world is approaching. So when dealing with species threatening decisions, we must take into account what is our goal.

This might upset a few readers, but I think a communist world is the ultimate goal of humanity. A world so called "presidents", or "prime ministers" who do nothing but run the country for their own personal wishes. A world in which everyone is equal, we have no desire for pointless material goods, and do not exploit each other for material gain is where we must surely reach. Communism is good enough for humanity. Humans are not good enough for communism.

Obviously this is relative and if this universe, even what you are reading in this very post in this very forum right now is just an illusion, then this hardly matters.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

This might upset a few readers, but I think a communist world is the ultimate goal of humanity. A world so called "presidents", or "prime ministers" who do nothing but run the country for their own personal wishes. A world in which everyone is equal, we have no desire for pointless material goods, and do not exploit each other for material gain is where we must surely reach. Communism is good enough for humanity. Humans are not good enough for communism.

Fair enough but I don't think communism ever meant everyone being equal but I guess I get your drift. Are you saying that because we perceive inequality, we therefore desire material goods? To compensate, to compete? It seems to me people are desiring certain experiences which they connect with the purchase. The purchase itself, the showing off but it could also be the pleasure in using the goods, it might be a luxurious world trip or something, meet people and relax. People desire goods because of the experience of obtaining and/or having them. No surprise excesses are often combined with gaining as well the thrills of certain drugs.

Obviously this is relative and if this universe, even what you are reading in this very post in this very forum right now is just an illusion, then this hardly matters.

Better make up your mind about if it's relevant or not at all. Might be important!

[KiraIsJustice]

"If the purpose is just to live a happy life, then does it matter if nothing actually exists, but if we are meant for bigger things, then it does. "

This brings me to a topic, that really upsets me everytime it comes up.
When people, who got the gift of existing out of nothing, think of themselves as very important, that they are worthy to extend their life and wish to live for ever, just to live a primitive pig life. Praying to imaginary gods for more.
This lust for more and not being thankful for the little life-time you already got, disgusts me so much.
A true genius, that realizes the gift of life and his intelligence, would never lust for more at any god, but would try to work a way around with the gift of intelligence he already got. He takes the matter into his own hand, using the options he has direct access to.
And the true genius knows, that if he fails in the end, he wasn't worthy at all in extending his life.

What do you think?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Love deathnote.

"What in your opinion is the main goal(s) an intelligent being has in this universe?
What on earth actually has a value?"

What else is there worth doing in a world of consciousness but to extinguish the suffering of yourself and others, in the process of bringing them to realization and helping along the expansion of their consciousness?

"Be happy, make the people around you happy, learn what's important" :)

[Olaf]

Are you saying that because we perceive inequality, we therefore desire material goods? To compensate, to compete? It seems to me people are desiring certain experiences which they connect with the purchase. The purchase itself, the showing off but it could also be the pleasure in using the goods, it might be a luxurious world trip or something, meet people and relax. People desire goods because of the experience of obtaining and/or having them.

I think people at the moment are just way too compliant. Have you ever read about Erich Fromm and his Authoritarian Conscience? He basically states that people feel bad by disobeying the government, so internalise the governments wishes to become their own morals. We convince ourselves that we must also obey the advertising campaigns. We have to buy the next best thing, for example, all the avid Apple fans. Why on earth would you need an ipad mini if you have an ipod touch and an ipad already? We let ourselves get bullied by corporations (not just Apple, just using them as an example). As long as we are being exploited and truly believe we have a need for these material irrelevancies, then we cannot advance past a certain stage.

A true genius, that realizes the gift of life and his intelligence, would never lust for more at any god, but would try to work a way around with the gift of intelligence he already got. He takes the matter into his own hand, using the options he has direct access to.
And the true genius knows, that if he fails in the end, he wasn't worthy at all in extending his life.

This may single-handedly be the biggest threat to humanity. The vast majority of people are completely content to do nothing with their lives. They are absolutely terrified of death. This is what makes people more acceptant of religion. The thought of simply ceasing to exist when you die is the most unsettling, disturbing thought and people will do anything to get out of it. Denying death even. People can just live their lives normally, not trying anything new or daring because they think they have the whole of eternity to do so after this life. People are simply not motivated enough to try hard, and fear above all else, failure and death.

[KiraIsJustice]

"What else is there worth doing in a world of consciousness but to extinguish the suffering of yourself and others, in the process of bringing them to realization and helping along the expansion of their consciousness?"

I don't think a true genius always has the goal to be a hero, to save the weak...
The only value a true genius always has is his intelligence, his ability is to think his way through the world, make plans and being able to successfully transfer his idea into reality (just an example: the nuclear bomb).
He either is able to do this on his own, or teams up with other genuises who think the same.
In our world this leads to a struggle, because these genius teams, in most cases, don't agree with each other and are aiming to eliminate anyone who tries to stop them.

Today we have these genius teams in form of think tanks, all around the world, and they keep getting more and more influence.
In future being intelligent will save your life.

In fact a true genius that wants to change the world would aim at the destruction and loss of the world we live in today.
Destruction always comes before creation.

Your thougts?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

:\

I think be happy, make the people around you happy, help them to have what you have.

Someone with intelligence will realize there is nothing else worth doing, you can't get to where you want to go by walking in the opposite direction, all you need to do is become the most ideal person you can be, strive for excellence, make it a habit, use your capability to the fullest every single day, and you'll find that the best way to use it is to help all the people surrounding you that are suffering. Bring humanity to awakening and the rest will be done on its own.

"What is a good man but a bad man's teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man's job?
If you don't understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret."
-Lao Tzu

[Dennis Mahar]

Be authentic.
To be authentic is to admit your inauthenticity.

Susan Rossiter-Peacock-Sangster an Australian socialite who wed a series of wealthy men said:

I amassed a fortune.
It only took one cunt.

[Dennis Mahar]

It's always circumstances.
Wisdom applies in circumstances.
Lists of aphorisms in dusty books isn't it.
Its in-action.

Wisdom embodied comes into circumstances as a 'what's in it for me'.
It's a cold, hard, brutal shape that foresees consequences.

That's it's authenticity,
What's in it for me.

If you are not listening from 'what's in it for me' you are no good to anyone.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

How do you take action, or how have you taken action? Because at present I have no idea how and I'm living in an uncommon world.

[Olaf]

Lao Tzu's quotation pretty much sums it up. The short time we have on this world, we may as well try to make the most of it, but more in the sense of carpe diem than the more common vulgar form of "yolo" going around at the moment.

We do only live once, so there's no sense in doing stupid things that ultimately get you nowhere. However, helping someone when they most need help, loving someone when they need love is a much greater goal. This links onto Aquinas and Natural Moral Law. He says that there are real goods and apparent goods, very similar is Kant's synthetic goods. They try to give different values to different goods.

But is there any way we can actually prove that loving someone is of greater moral value than skydiving?

[Dennis Mahar]

How do you take action, or how have you taken action? Because at present I have no idea how and I'm living in an uncommon world.

most stuff that shows up on the menu as a possibility to engage in from the point of view of 'what's in it for me' is best left on the menu.
eating the meal delivers indigestion.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

"It's always circumstances.
Wisdom applies in circumstances.
Lists of aphorisms in dusty books isn't it.
Its in-action."

How have you taken action that isn't "in it for me" in the past,
What is worth spending your time on for you or not you?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

"
In fact a true genius that wants to change the world would aim at the destruction and loss of the world we live in today.
Destruction always comes before creation.

Your thoughts?

It might come to pass that the only sensible forward as intelligent being is working actively towards the destruction of the current world or at least its particular system of control. Not because any system or control would be inherently bad but because of the corrupted mockery of its former self which needs to go. Because it always turns around to oppose the initial drive. This is portrayed quite vividly in movies about man against machine. The "evil" machine represents any creation, any system of law or thought which is turning into something opposing its former function and master. I think this is with every structure if it's allowed to exist long enough. It turns against itself and anything it was supposed to do.

[Dennis Mahar]

I think actions deemed altruistic come out of a background of 'what's in it for me'.

[Olaf]

I think actions deemed altruistic come out of a background of 'what's in it for me'.

But even if you are truly altruistic and you are doing an action completely selflessly, and one of the consequences is you benefit, then you can argue that is the reason they did it.
I think it's impossible to tell if someone else is being altruistic, only you yourself can know if you are being altruistic.

[Dennis Mahar]

If I commit an act deemed altruistic I do it for me because it's a possibility for me I'm enrolled in and to not do that when the occasion arises would not be that possibility for me.
For the recipient to feel beholden to me for the deed is avoided when I'm authentic and explain I did it for me.
I'm free, they are free.
Move on.
Clean sheet.

[Tensai]

My personal opinion is that intelligence serves to overcome the challenges and take yourself to a higher plane of existence.

[KiraIsJustice]

"My personal opinion is that intelligence serves to overcome the challenges and take yourself to a higher plane of existence."

I absolutely agree with you.

I think there will come a time on this planet, and it might be very soon, that one big event happens, a event no one is expecting right now, but it will be a new era for the humans.

And at this time, the only chance of surviving comes with intelligence.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Kira

Internet, it's inevitable, never before have the ignorant been exposed to so much wisdom from all over the globe.

[Cahoot]

Kira

Internet, it's inevitable, never before have the ignorant been exposed to so much wisdom from all over the globe.

information ≠ wisdom

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Talking/reading from wise people = wisdom. ( That doesn't mean always, or even ordinarily)

Don't make me start giving examples like like sacred texts :p

[dr gonzo]

TOTALLY NEW....to this website but I believe that psychedelic people will seek each other out and people involved in the psychedelic world should NEVER involve people who aren't ready or arn't comfortable with this type of view point as I believe that people should not judge, influence or guide until they are ready,/ their friends are ready, otherwise serious psychological implications are imminent.afterwise people should really respect the way of psychedelics as they are not your average "fun time" sorta stuff.sure, they can enhance a good time and when at a bush doof they can seriously make the personal interconnnectedness between strangers amazing, but it should not be taken lightly.psychedelics are like playing with a whip,good fun, but one day will come back and can hurt you if you are not prepared for what is being said...I have only read a fraction of what is happening on this website, but enough to know that there is a few out there that do not have the proper respect for what can be achieved or reversed from psychedelics.I have joined in order to make some Real connections with some Real people.you choose what you wish to say, but I myself choose to respond, on any kind of level, whether conscious, unconscious, or textual.much love and respect to all who get my ramblings, much love, Toto