Also Anti Atheism- Intelligence/spirituality will prevail

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Lets face it, the only reason so many people are atheist is because of the media focusing on religious idiots, while praising atheist intelligent scientists.

Is there anyone here, who really and truly believes that our sensory experiences and consciousness originated by mere chance interaction? Through unplanned accumulation and unplanned progression?

Who would believe in unplanned progression such as we have witnessed on earth?

Unplanned Accumulation resulting in complex neurons and plasticity of the brain?

Do you not understand that evolution is simply a limited perception of a limited process in the universe?

You do not understand the matter or energy making up the process, nor the forces at play, yet you say these forces are unplanned, that the resulting animals, brains, ecosystems, planets, stars, gas waterfalls, volcanoes are also unplanned, and happened through probable interactions.

And that is all assuming a physical reality that corresponds with our conscious experience.

But, once you do realize that consciousness is all that exists and sensory experience makes up reality, it be comes very clear the need for a creator/designer/manifestor of our experiences. There is no self, only feelings. There is no real substance, only the perception of substance. Realize how little you know, you will see the illusion eventually.

The illusion which was first pointed out by the Buddha Siddhartha Gautama:

"A wise man, recognizing reality is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real, and so he escapes the suffering."

BTW Looking to form a group of geniuses, the agenda....name ourselves prophets, get followers, become masters or sages, gain a lot of money...anything worthwhile.

[Kunga]

A wise man, recognizing reality is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real, and so he escapes the suffering."

Is that why you look both ways before you cross the street ?
How about if you were living on the East Coast now and the hurricane was commin at ya....would you just sit there or run for the hills ?

The truth is...reality is both real & unreal. Real in the conventional sense, unreal in the Ultimate sense (Emptiness). You have to navigate this world of illusion skillfully or you will suffer !!!

[Dennis Mahar]

SoK,

BTW Looking to form a group of geniuses, the agenda....name ourselves prophets, get followers, become masters or sages, gain a lot of money...anything worthwhile.

You would have to have a curriculum.
A set of concepts.

The set of concepts has to give rise to an experience.

Concept and experience has to be distinguished.

On Buddha Nature, one can have a concept of it and get around like a parrot sqauwking.
That's not the experience.

Can you, John, generate the experience 'Buddha Nature' in the minds of the followers as distinct from the activity of assembling a bunch of squawking parrots who are now penniless because you got the money?

What I'm getting at is the 'trade secrets'.

Have you got the 'trade secrets'.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

BTW Looking to form a group of geniuses, the agenda....name ourselves prophets, get followers, become masters or sages, gain a lot of money...anything worthwhile.

There is no real money, only the perception of money or worth....

[Dennis Mahar]

Go to the naughty chair 'deebs'.

You've harpooned it straight off.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Yes I have the trade secrets.

Yes I can get people to understand buddha nature, although much easier for people to listen to you when they think of you highly.

I am a super genius because I am a simple realist. If you understand enlightenment then you are one of these too and know exactly what I mean by "simple realist". Most people feign understanding, should come up with a test that shows if they really know or not. Any ideas?

Congrats on realizing eternal life and being one with the flowing of your experiences, I'm sure you have had the same disinterest and non-desire that results.

-Deibert

I know, that is why I have zero moneys, zero places to be, and zero cares, but since we don't care so much, why not just gain a following, share the word, have a bit of fun? I am a genius but I have never used it for personal gain like I could, even if that gain exists only in my mind.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

A wise man, recognizing reality is but an illusion, does not act as if it is real, and so he escapes the suffering."

Is that why you look both ways before you cross the street ?
How about if you were living on the East Coast now and the hurricane was commin at ya....would you just sit there or run for the hills ?

The truth is...reality is both real & unreal. Real in the conventional sense, unreal in the Ultimate sense (Emptiness). You have to navigate this world of illusion skillfully or you will suffer !!!

Your crossing the road question is pointless, as you already know, troll.

What you are saying is true, but the consequences are also unreal, "death" is impossible as there is no "self" that makes up your existence. You can escape the suffering by realizing its only in your mind. Monks often bring about their own deaths or sit there until they die because they know this and are completely detached.

[Dennis Mahar]

Any ideas?

How about when dealing with human being the consideration of 'what's being heard' and 'what's being listened for' as an understanding of how the deal gets done.

can we put that in the Official Trade Secrets Act.

If you're gonna rock up with a general announcement that this is the truth,
human being is gonna automatically take on the duty of dismantling it real quick and get you caught up in all sorts of bullshit.

How many times has the spoke you spoke landed in the hearing of human being and turned out to be not the spoke you spoke but an entirely different spoke which was then attributed to you and passed around the joint as the spoke you spoke and then you had to correct the spoke that wasn't the spoke you had spoken with a reiteration of the spoke you spoke which landed in the hearing of human being which turned out to be not the spoke you spoke but an entirely different spoke which was then attributed to you and passed around the joint as the spoke you spoke

there got to be so many spokes in the fuckin wheel the wheel kept on a'turnin and then it was time for bed.

Can you hear me?

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Yes I understood after the first 5 spoke's.

We can make an official one of truth that can't be denied later on, mindphuck some people, but for the time being we need to think of a good name for the group.

[Dennis Mahar]

The Good Guys.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Orphalean Sages

[Diebert van Rhijn]

I know, that is why I have zero moneys, zero places to be, and zero cares, but since we don't care so much, why not just gain a following, share the word, have a bit of fun? I am a genius but I have never used it for personal gain like I could, even if that gain exists only in my mind.

But why trying to gain followings & fun while you have achieved "zero" already? Not enough? Too empty? Too boring? The mind does not have the borders you might think it has.

[Dennis Mahar]

Showing up as human being means showing up as I, We, It.
Used by It.
It is.
This is It.

I doesn't wake up in the morning.
It does.
That's the way It is.
Waking up grumpy, resigned, forlorn is a matter for It.
Pulling the boots on half-heartedly, dragging out the day,
That's It.
Get It?

Waking up in the morning in an enthusiastic fashion is not a problem for It.

It travels under many guises,
It is outrageous.
Making friends with It is all the better for It.

Who said It sux.
It did.
Get on to It.

Showing up as camel involves a different set of options,
thirsty work.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

But why trying to gain followings & fun while you have achieved "zero" already? Not enough? Too empty? Too boring? The mind does not have the borders you might think it has.

Too boring? Yes.

I understand, I can meditate more and expand my awareness further, have more mystical experiences, but there is more than enough time for meditation.

Meanwhile in the world of being, yes I am pretty bored, disinterested is a better word.

I do not think the mind has borders, let me show you,

death is only part of the experience, experience is infinite.

your experiences make up your consciousness.

your consciousness is infinite.

no borders

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Meanwhile in the world of being, yes I am pretty bored, disinterested is a better word.

Yes, that's because you are dwelling in two worlds at once. One world is meditative, filled with mystical, clear understandings and disinterest. The other is a "world of being" where it's like being a pencil bored with all the flat paper but thinking "why not write something" while it's there. That is understood.

The challenge, and I share this challenge with you, is to get to the situation where there's one world again, one continuous whole. This has been called the homecoming, not any of the states you discovered so far, blessed as they might be.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Deibert

Surely if you understand what I'm talking about then you have noticed clearly that no one else understands this? You must have come on this forum for the same reason as I.

It seems to me we are all endlessly looking for something, it could be contentment, but even with that I still find myself seeking, maybe for excitement, recognition, praise?

Anyway we should find the people that do understand and form a strictly enlightened(on the path) group.

I understand what you mean by one world. I often catch myself changing from wakefulness, world of understanding and peace, to getting caught in non-wakefulness, world of argument and suffering. I want to be completely in the one world,which is really recognizing heaven, but, after all my knowledge about endless desire, I still feel the want to achieve something, to do something of worth or interest, remnants of a narrow way of thinking.

I am going to be experiencing forever, this I am sure of, so why are we not feeling free to achieve greatness or money, even if just for momentary interest or unsatisfying self satisfaction. Don't tell me you wouldn't prefer to be chilling in a resort in fiji?

If we break the borders completely and forget the whole " I should be doing this, or I shouldn't be doing that", we can go beyond the supposed code or guidelines set out for the enlightened life thousands of years ago, and make our own.

Maybe it's what we were meant to do? wouldn't it be more beneficial to have smart guys like us leading a group rather then some fool? We can have worthwhile goals that benefit everyone, like extinguishing suffering in others.

Look at Eckhart Tolle for example, this guy talks about frequencies and vibrational levels and still has a massive following, we can top him ten fold.

[Dennis Mahar]

It seems to me we are all endlessly looking for something, it could be contentment, but even with that I still find myself seeking, maybe for excitement, recognition, praise?

That's what you get a girlfriend for.

It is indifferent. She isn't.

You can tell her.
While you're telling her she is ironing, vacuuming, she has a notebook nearby and occasionally jots yet another item down on the shopping list,
She will have a brochure from a travel agent on the coffee table opened up to 'top 20 tourist destinations'.

She is listening.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

I have a girlfriend, can't live with em can't live without em. They listen but don't grasp, very slowly she is starting to examine herself.

[Dennis Mahar]

They listen but don't grasp

She has her own 'trade secrets'.

She ain't your fool in the human set of options concerning 'sink or swim'.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Didn't get that last part, what's with everyone on here speaking so indirectly? sign of boredom I'm sure.

Yeah she's good at cooking and stressing haha

Group name, free thinkers.

The unaffected

[Dennis Mahar]

Don't worry about it.

I find your mind to be fresh and alive, full of optimism and adventure.
Thanks for that.

Go for it.

What happened to turn you on.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

How old are you? Thank you, we are very lucky to be high level. But it means nothing if the wisdom is not shared to the non-high level, and it is only shared if there is listening and contemplation, and that is achieved only through making the truth glamorous.

[Dennis Mahar]

Listen,
This machinery we show up in,
human being,
this is It.

We are used by it.
It's a limited set of options concerning survival.

The Buddha indicates it is of relative nature only.

His invitation is to stand in the possibility you are not 'infinitely' It.
It is It.
That way you are not used by It.

He says It is 'a neck in the woods',
a part of Totality.

He says use It like a stepping stone.

I'm 62 which is pretty much older than God or feels like it.
Are you youngish.

What happened to turn you on.

[SeekerOfWisdom]

Don't worry I get it, the words I am writing now are not my own, it writes and I watch.

We have control. We are it. It has total control.

Stepping stone.. yes I have assumed that my next sensual life will show me greater awareness rather than less awareness. In other words, there is only progression toward higher existence.

I am 18. You must have accumulated great wisdom at 62. Share it straight forward with me now?

Nothing and everything... an accumulation of things. As a character trait, I would say it is the rebel part.

Rebellious in thinking and in nature. Telling the teacher he's wrong.

Also, we must have some greater instinct or intuition that naturally distinguishes between what is truth and what is misconception.

[Dennis Mahar]

enlightenment can't be measured because it's totality and it can't be proved because an attempt to prove it entails a symbolic representation of it in language and that's not it.

Bragging 'I'm enlightened' is actually a commitment to being unenlightened.

We have to distinguish concept and experience.
one can have an enlightened experience in an instant and have it devolve into an activity of languaging about it and then one is living it conceptually and not in the experience of it.
It's like one can notice one's girlfriend cooking or something and be moved by her and the mind can fill with the presence of love.
That presence of love becomes a memory and soon enough one is saying 'I love you dear' without experiencing the presence of love in the mind.
In that case one is loving her conceptually from a memory, like a commitment to her.

It's not wrong to live conceptually or to hold an abiding commitment to a concept.
It's a part of it.
It's just not the profound experience.

That concept (enlightenment) can be one's possibility.
The context from where you're coming from.

The Wright brothers got enamoured with birds and wondered about the possibility of flight for human being.
They then lived out of that context, they lived passionately out of that context, they came from that context without actually experiencing 'flight for human being'.

Somehow they saw 'airplaneness' in a pile of wood, metal, string, glue, cotton lying around in the shed.

They got past the concept to the profound experience 'flight for human being'.

Your project 'enlightenment for human being' with the condition 'for fun and profit'.
Is viable.

Get to it.