How can I be completely desire-free?

[NobodyListens2Genius]

- A question for anyone reading

I have considered this for very long and found that if I chase after money then I might as well be saying I am planning to chase after it my whole life. I am not the kind to fall into the same trap I see everyone else in, but I don't know my alternatives?

Do i truly give up all attachment and not even worry about buying food or finding a place of my own and trust that life will guide me? Or is there really no other choice but to conform?

This is not because I am lazy, I am quite the opposite, I am just all too aware that if I depend on money I will be depending on it my whole life. I will end up needing more of it, and hence giving away more of my life for it.

I really want nothing but to meditate, not starve to death, and not freeze.
Is this really so much to ask for? How can I get it without accepting constant attachment?

[LiquidRainbow]

How can you be completely desire-free? Stop desiring to be that first. Next go with the flow.

[NobodyListens2Genius]

If I went with the flow now and didn't worry at all, then It is true that eventually I wouldn't have food or shelter, then what? Do I forget the flow and start following orders and chasing after money for my whole life? Even if I only earn the minimum, that number increases when I need my own home or car, each time I lose more of my time and hence more of my freedom. What am I giving my freedom up for? Life?

[LiquidRainbow]

If I went with the flow now and didn't worry at all, then It is true that eventually I wouldn't have food or shelter, then what?

Not true. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. You can go with the flow at your job even and float right through it. You can use it as a practicing grounds for this 'detachment' you so desire. You can have access to food and shelter and still be detached, with or without a job. I suggest you start building your own dream and stop building other's dreams that are employing you. That might prove beneficial to your situation and it might take time but if you plant the seeds there will be crops eventually once you learn how to cultivate them properly that is.

Even if I only earn the minimum, that number increases when I need my own home or car,

So learn how to keep that minimum from increasing. Grow your own vegetables. Get a bike. Use your hairy walking-sticks. Ride a bus. Do it yourself projects to save money on things and learn something new. That or learn to go with the flow of using your money on things that will benefit you or that you enjoy and find an enjoyable way to earn money. Yes money is a flawed system but it's what we got to work with as of right now, use it as a way to teach yourself lessons.

[brad walker]

Desire is inevitable. Deal with it.

[LiquidRainbow]

Brad, did you used to play online poker for a living by chance?

[Cahoot]

Deal with what is rather than what is not.

For you, desire is.
Desire free is not.

Deal with desire and you will understand why you desire.

One simple method is to know the purpose of your next muscular contraction. Know the reason for changing from stillness to motion before you move, then contemplate this reason to its logical conclusion, whatever that may be.

For example, you may realize that all you desire is a stress-free way to fill your own belly.

If you condemn what you find, then again, deal with what is.

[Eric Orwoll]

Let your consciousness be. Stop trying to control it.

[Cahoot]

While awaiting sufficient motivation to make your next move, you may find that in following the logic of cause and effect, the chain quickly breaks down into unknowns and varying probabilities. Steady attention on this murk focuses awareness upon what is, before it is. See? Look deeply enough into the unknown and the known reveals, in varying degrees dependent on the limitations of capacity, and capacity is influenced by intelligence and the limitations blocking intelligence. By how completely one buys into any particular dream. Look deeply enough into what is, into desire, and desire-free reveals. Before you even make a move. Savvy?

[Tenver-]

I do what I must. In that way you can say it is simple, but it is damn hard.
I let that impulse guide me of which is necessary. I trust that truth knows for better or worse. To negate from that path of what is necessary would mean death and I have survived so far. In the end, none of us got any of vote on what our lives would be, is and will be so in that way you can say that it is not of such an important matter. In the end, don't worry, it's all a joke and you can just hope it is a laughing one. I hope that the core of the universe knows in some way, for better or worse.

[NobodyListens2Genius]

Cahoot + Tenver

I've looked into desire and attachment and have overcome most of it. Even the desire for the sensual experience. Yet even tho I have learnt more about life in the last year than I could have imagined, and spend almost every moment in awe of the miracle I am part of, my stomach still grumbles when I don't eat.

Although I have decided that even tho working for money weekly is direct attachment, I can still live my life moment by moment while working.


I would never in my life work more than 2 or 3 days a week tho, as then I would be giving up my life to live.. which I've always thought is ridiculous, unless you really enjoy your work Ofcourse.


And Tenver, I wouldn't call it a joke, but the universe definitely knows :) everything is an expression of a higher awareness, there is nothing I could be more sure of. So I guess whatever happens to me was meant to happen.

If only I am lucky enough to be able to share the great perspective of life I have been given with others. How easily the world could be transformed by truth and understanding

[Diebert van Rhijn]

I've looked into desire and attachment and have overcome most of it. Even the desire for the sensual experience. ... If only I am lucky enough to be able to share the great perspective of life I have been given with others. How easily the world could be transformed by truth and understanding

But isn't that a major desire: transformation of "the world" (= your perspective of it?). Like you posted here, you say you also desire freedom from repression, fight evil, for yourself or others? One could argue you can only act on sharing or fighting the good fight when driven by a desire for it.

Desire is like a hole being dug and then the water comes rushing in to fill it up. One cannot make the water give up its flow but it is possible to stop digging holes for, by and as ourselves. Not to mention the falling in.

[Cahoot]

Yes, what at first may seem like a strange feeling, or force, accompanies the spontaneous arising of bramacarya. A more or less universal and rather vague term is used to describe all pervasive equanimity, which is not so much a leveling as a penetration into the through and through, effortlessly ascertaining and abiding with the intrinsic worth of whatever is perceived. So that, rather than diminishing the capacity for sensuality, sensuality enhances. The senses just become superfluous. Like, you know that the second course and the entree will be wonderful but you are so sensuously consumed by the first course, right now, that the future sensual pleasures are superfluous. If the first course happens to be sitting quietly, enjoying the subtle sounds that adorn silence, then that is enough. Often this is called renunciation, but that term often just describes perceived limitations of what is perceived in another. More appropriately, renunciation describes the inner workings, the absorption in what is rather than what is not, an absorption so complete that although what-is-not can be comprehended, it is superfluous. Secondary. And in this way, the force of life becomes recognized as compassion, that rather vague and universal term. Without sensual stimulation attention still becomes absorbed in whatever is this moment, which makes trance states so cool they can become an attachment. However at this point, identification with ego has sufficiently loosened so that compassion combined with latent proclivities dictates the direction of attention, which means that the present more-or-less becomes identity. Should the proclivities burn out, get used up, all that remains is that vaguely defined compassion.

[Cahoot]

Thus, when you become compassion, you will eat. It just happens.

[Dan Rowden]

While there is ego there is desire. There's no getting around that. Transcending the ego is the only way for desire to cease; desire and ego are two sides of the same page of paper. One can only work steadfastly on eliminating delusion from one's consciousness and that's a journey that involves some acceptance of the fact that you're still on it.

[Eric Orwoll]

While there is ego there is desire. There's no getting around that. Transcending the ego is the only way for desire to cease; desire and ego are two sides of the same page of paper. One can only work steadfastly on eliminating delusion from one's consciousness and that's a journey that involves some acceptance of the fact that you're still on it.

Can it be that one discovers transcendence as a habitual exercise toward a goal? The goal of transcendence defeats the means; to desire not to desire.
To be perfectly aware of the moment without relying on the conditioning of the past. To abandon a sense of ownership over a part and embrace the whole. This is done in our own minds spontaneously, outside of time. Your identity exists only in the moment. The self through time is maintained only by resemblance not by identity. Realize that when the self is an illusion, desire is an illusion.
Stop trying to control your mind. Let your consciousness be. The sense of control is only a part, it is by concentration on a part that we perceive desire.
We feel that we must concentrate on things in order to accomplish. This is because we feel that we have control over our accomplishments. Your thought exists, regardless of your concentration. You are a process of accomplishment, you do not control your self. This would put you outside of yourself- in which case, who are you? You are the process, experience the process without favoring a part.

[NobodyListens2Genius]

Deibert

Yeah that makes sense, the distinction between good and bad is one I have created. Altough the distinction between truth and untruth always exists, its not for me to say why it isn't known I guess.

Dan Rowden

Meditating helps me learn to view my experience of the moment, practicing as an observer instead of letting it affect me. Transcending the ego isn't always easy tho, what's easy is getting caught in the illusionary problems of the self, if only I had a little alarm every time I started thinking of the future or the past too much. Quick question, you aren't going to post one comment and dissapear again are you? Because I was wondering if a brief version of your understanding of ultimate reality is similar to mine or not?

I would put it as: our experience of this reality is dependant not on us but the awareness of the universe, we are a product of this great universe and are an expression of it. Nothing that happens is in our control as our thoughts and bodies react and intepret as they were made to. We aren't our thoughts or senses but experience these and have confused them for our Self. Our Self is actually a conscious awareness that isn't bound to this physical experience but can enter the realm of the non-physical awareness which pervades all things. We even have the divine potential to form realities within ourselves, they are an expression of us just as we are an expression of it.

The reality we experience is not as steadfast and logical as people assume. Instead it defies the limits of our tiny logic. Once we can doubt all our knowledge it becomes clear just how little it is that we know. That the logic we have is shallow and explains little, follow it, and you reach uncertainty and opinion quickly. Our logic is limited, but our direct insight and ability to understand is not limited in the same way. Through direct insight of the self we can explore our own awareness and unlock the hidden potential of the non-physical experience. Doing this creates an expansion of awareness, leading to more understanding. Just as an idiot has less awareness than an open minded thinker. Someone on the path has introduced higher levels of understanding into their awareness, without having to think about or reason what they know. Although I haven't experienced whatever the highest level of enlightenment is, I assume it means becoming completely one with the awareness of the universe known as god Tao or the great mother. Being one with the mother of the universe would be the highest dimension of consciousness and presumeably would come with all understanding. I know for a fact I have expanded my awareness and understanding more than once, becoming more aware of things to the point that my perspective itself has drastically and noticeably changed. This is often brought about through meditation or contemplation and the easiest way to know its happened is when you've had a great epiphany of understanding and can see truths that you know have always been staring you in the face. The truth is always awfully simple and direct, Altough it can't be reasoned the same way wordly truths can be reasoned. People try to study the parts of our universe to understand it, as if they are unaware they are part of it and it is all around them, to understand it, first understand that it is what it is, and its right infront of us. Most of the people I know are still convinced of the existence of "2", this being a human misunderstanding.

Have you got something completely different or experienced similair things?

[brad walker]

While there is a body there is desire. To be completely desire-free try cryopreservation of your entire body.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

There are needs as any other condition for something to be. The wish can come out of the need but the wish is hardly ever representing that need.

[Eric Orwoll]

NL2G,

We aren't our thoughts or senses but experience these and have confused them for our Self. Our Self is actually a conscious awareness that isn't bound to this physical experience but can enter the realm of the non-physical awareness which pervades all things. We even have the divine potential to form realities within ourselves, they are an expression of us just as we are an expression of it.

Does your conscious awareness have the ability to make choice? Choice is an illusion.
Time exists. Existence supersedes time. Time cannot be a precondition in which being sits because time has the property of being. Being therefore exists both inside and outside of time.
There can be no choice if there is no time. If past present and future all have the property of Being, then Being is simultaneous and undifferentiated in time.
Do you have the potential to form realities? All time exists, how can you cause into being what exists already?

Bivalent logic concerns what is true or false. On or off. One or Zero. Being or nothing. True is, False isn't.

Being subsumes all things. All things are part of being. There are no things which aren't. All things are.

The reality we experience is not as steadfast and logical as people assume. Instead it defies the limits of our tiny logic.

Bivalent logic concerns what is true or false. On or off. One or Zero. Being or nothing. True is, False isn't.

Being subsumes all things. All things are part of being. There are no things which aren't. All things are.
When we deal with bivalent logic we deal with the treatment of being itself. Being itself is the only logical object.
The only thing that is nonlogical is undifferentiated being itself, it is from that fundamental oneness that all logical entities are formed.

Although I haven't experienced whatever the highest level of enlightenment is, I assume it means becoming completely one with the awareness of the universe known as god Tao or the great mother

A belief in our ability to access undifferentiated being assumes that we exist as actors with freewill. Undifferentiated being implies that freewill does not exist. If all things exist simultaneous then causation does not exist, for causation relies on change which relies on time.
The Tao can never be experienced. Experience requires perspective. Perspective cannot, by definition, perceive the whole.

[Dennis Mahar]

Bivalent logic concerns what is true or false. On or off. One or Zero. Being or nothing. True is, False isn't.

That is not the case.
The object arising is both true and false.
It is not either/or.
The awakened mind acknowledges both.

It is true that the object arising appears to exist from its own side.
It is false that the object arising exists from its own side.

To deny the appearance is nihilism and ignorant.
To grant the object its own essence is ignorant.

[NobodyListens2Genius]

-Eric

No it does not imply we have free will. It is simply another result of the Tao that we are experiencing. We still have the ability to act, the only difference is we are the tao acting, the ego is the illusion.

And I can create realities within myself I did it this morning. While conscious. Picking a scenario and absorbing into its reality and experiencing my own creation. You can do this too. It is much easier if you have had about 5 hours sleep and woken up to meditate lying down. Keep focus while allowing your awareness to observe your experience and focusing on a mental image. With a clear mind you can mentally form a perspective that enters a realm which is an expression of you. You are an expression of "being" which is an expression of non-being. You are one with the Tao yes? You have its potential

[NobodyListens2Genius]

Let me rephrase that

The Tao has the Tao's potential.

[oxytocinNA]

Tenver- I trust that truth knows for better or worse

So how does such a thing (truth) make an assessment as a conscious being does?

Truth:
the true or actual state of a matter,
conformity with fact or reality,
a verified or indisputable fact.

NobodyListens2Genius - but the universe definitely knows :) everything is an expression of a higher awareness

So you are saying the universe is a conscious being?
"higher awareness" ...


Diebert van Rhijn - Desire is like a hole being dug and then the water comes rushing in to fill it up

This is quite a negative take on desire you have. "A hole being dug"

Desire:
a longing or craving, as for something that brings satisfaction or enjoyment
an expressed wish; request.
something desired.

There are positive desires as well as negative. The author of this thread wants the freedom, which requires the means, to live as he chooses. Every single choice one makes is based on desire. The only question is the nature of the desire. The only way to kill a desire is if the desire is truly of no value - upon weighing factors. Circumstances can affect this. A prior desire can cease to have value.

To exist require effort. Ergo - to exist is a desire. Blanket statements that infer the desire is negative - are falacious.

So the author of this thread has to make choices and take actions to exist as they want. It is very difficult to live off the land - not just because of the work and inherent risks (injury, ilness, and no ready facilities for treatment), but because so much land is claimed. So you can try that - or trade your time for the means you require to get what you desire (time to meditate, etc.). Or you can try a mix - are you familiar with Dick Proenneke? After retiring, he lived in the Alaskan wilderness with little outside contact. Certainly if you can do something (trade time) that provides satisfaction (maybe start a meditation club / facility - etc.). Just as certain - if you turn your life over to others - to choose what you will do, with no real underlying value for you - you will be miserable.

What ever you (author of thread) choose - good luck. Everyone should achieve a decent level of happiness (so long as it is not at the expense of another).

[NobodyListens2Genius]

Oxy

It is an expression of a higher consciousness, you are part of it. If your the type that thinks its unplanned or came about accidently, let's not discuss :p