The existentialists would say,But what of existence outside of mind?
what part of 'this is it' have you failed to understand.
do you think this is a rehearsal?
Whaddya reckon?
Causation
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Causation
what part of 'this is it' have you failed to understand.
do you think this is a rehearsal?
Whaddya reckon?
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Causation
Critics of QRS dismiss the thinking as binary and fail to comprehend the logic of Nagarjuna's emptiness.But what of existence outside of mind?
binary thinking says a thing is or a thing isn't, either/or.
That's not what Nagarjuna is up to.
Nagarjuna's logic shows this to be case:
'consisting of 2 parts, which aren't opposite, which arise together, each of which bring forth the other.
a conventional reality and an ultimate reality.
Imagine your buddy calls you over and says 'this is my girlfriend'.
she is and she isn't arising together.
its blindingly obvious.
there's a magician's trick in it.
emptiness is a non-conceptual background understanding that breaks through the stranglehold of mental/emotional projections.
is that what you mean by 'undifferentiated reality'.
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Eric Orwoll
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Re: Causation
We have a very different vocabulary for describing it but I wouldn't be surprised if my undifferentiated reality amounts to the same thing as your emptiness.
To reiterate my own conception,
Time and space are projected by the observer, they are properties of the observer.
Assuming solipsism is false, the observer sits within a reality that isn't inherently broken into dimensions.
All observers sit in that same unbroken reality, all concepts and all phenomenon exist undifferentiated.
Only from within a perspective does the limitation of dimensionality truly exist.
Reality is an infinite chain of 0's and 1's, the 1's are this undifferentiated being the 0's are the nothingness which generates perspective. In an infinite binary chain all information is generated. Just as room of monkeys typing random keys will, given enough time, generate the complete works of shakespeare, so does this infinite binary chain generate all information.
This chain of 0's and 1's is all there is, it exists undifferentiated except when viewed from a perspective. The perspective itself is generated by the binary of reality. We are the experience of the universe looking at itself in limited form.
To reiterate my own conception,
Time and space are projected by the observer, they are properties of the observer.
Assuming solipsism is false, the observer sits within a reality that isn't inherently broken into dimensions.
All observers sit in that same unbroken reality, all concepts and all phenomenon exist undifferentiated.
Only from within a perspective does the limitation of dimensionality truly exist.
Reality is an infinite chain of 0's and 1's, the 1's are this undifferentiated being the 0's are the nothingness which generates perspective. In an infinite binary chain all information is generated. Just as room of monkeys typing random keys will, given enough time, generate the complete works of shakespeare, so does this infinite binary chain generate all information.
This chain of 0's and 1's is all there is, it exists undifferentiated except when viewed from a perspective. The perspective itself is generated by the binary of reality. We are the experience of the universe looking at itself in limited form.
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Dennis Mahar
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Re: Causation
In computing 1 represents 'on'
0 represents 'off'.
In Context they are not opposites.
they can be conceptualised as separate and opposite but aren't really.
they arise together.
where one is the other is.
the guy who wrote the marraige vow said,
I take you from this day forward,
for richer or poorer,
for better, for worse,
in sickness, or health,
till death us do part.
taking that vow 'differentiates',
carves out a consensual reality,
is a possibility for existence, that one lives for, that is meaningful.
a constructed winning formula that in order to persist requires adherence to a set of rules.
a switch is turned 'on'
the writer recognised 'til death us do part.
a switch is turned 'off'.
being and nothing.
differentiated reality and undifferentiated reality arise together.
bit of a showoff.
as the meaning hunger dissipates and the quest for an identity that wins hands down falls away,
and the idea that there's nothing wrong, nothing to get and nothing to fix,
one can stand back and applaud and cheer enthusiastically at the miraculous nature of it.
astonishing.
0 represents 'off'.
In Context they are not opposites.
they can be conceptualised as separate and opposite but aren't really.
they arise together.
where one is the other is.
the guy who wrote the marraige vow said,
I take you from this day forward,
for richer or poorer,
for better, for worse,
in sickness, or health,
till death us do part.
taking that vow 'differentiates',
carves out a consensual reality,
is a possibility for existence, that one lives for, that is meaningful.
a constructed winning formula that in order to persist requires adherence to a set of rules.
a switch is turned 'on'
the writer recognised 'til death us do part.
a switch is turned 'off'.
being and nothing.
differentiated reality and undifferentiated reality arise together.
It looks like that.We are the experience of the universe looking at itself in limited form.
bit of a showoff.
as the meaning hunger dissipates and the quest for an identity that wins hands down falls away,
and the idea that there's nothing wrong, nothing to get and nothing to fix,
one can stand back and applaud and cheer enthusiastically at the miraculous nature of it.
astonishing.
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Eric Orwoll
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Re: Causation
Astonishing indeed.
I think we've reached a satisfactory understanding.
Although... the language of nothing can be troublesome. Nothingness is that which does not arise, so how can it arise together with being?
The fact that we have a word for it makes it seem as though we are referring to an entity, when we truly refer to the absence of any entity. In light of this, just how does nothingness act on being?
Nothingness doesn't exist. How can it act? Clearly it does; perspective is an incomplete view of being. It's a view of being in which nothing takes the place of what is outside of view. Perhaps a view/perspective is the only place where a concept of nothingness bears meaning. Perhaps what we call nothingness is just the limitation of our perspective. In this case nothingness is really just inaccessibility.
Experience (which must employ perspective) is, then, founded on nothing.
I think we've reached a satisfactory understanding.
Although... the language of nothing can be troublesome. Nothingness is that which does not arise, so how can it arise together with being?
The fact that we have a word for it makes it seem as though we are referring to an entity, when we truly refer to the absence of any entity. In light of this, just how does nothingness act on being?
Nothingness doesn't exist. How can it act? Clearly it does; perspective is an incomplete view of being. It's a view of being in which nothing takes the place of what is outside of view. Perhaps a view/perspective is the only place where a concept of nothingness bears meaning. Perhaps what we call nothingness is just the limitation of our perspective. In this case nothingness is really just inaccessibility.
Experience (which must employ perspective) is, then, founded on nothing.
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Dennis Mahar
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- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm
Re: Causation
Nothing means no thing.
not finite.
not accessed sensorially.
not accessed by language's word pictures, can't be spoken.
accessed deductively.
to assign it characteristics, properties, functions like 'God with a game plan' is to infuse it with meaning, is inference and uncertain.
a necessary background to bring existence into sharp focus for analysis.
provides the Context.
metaphors like the blank canvas the painter hangs the paint on.
the light in the room that shows the stuff up.
absence of meaning works too so as to bring meaning into sharp focus.
a winning formula can be picked up and looked at minutely only against a background of nothing.
the nothingness behind the appearance discloses the conjuring trick.
not finite.
not accessed sensorially.
not accessed by language's word pictures, can't be spoken.
accessed deductively.
to assign it characteristics, properties, functions like 'God with a game plan' is to infuse it with meaning, is inference and uncertain.
a necessary background to bring existence into sharp focus for analysis.
provides the Context.
metaphors like the blank canvas the painter hangs the paint on.
the light in the room that shows the stuff up.
you've made the same distinction.The fact that we have a word for it makes it seem as though we are referring to an entity, when we truly refer to the absence of any entity.
absence of meaning works too so as to bring meaning into sharp focus.
a winning formula can be picked up and looked at minutely only against a background of nothing.
the nothingness behind the appearance discloses the conjuring trick.
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Eric Orwoll
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:14 am
Re: Causation
We have different definitions of the word nothing. Language is so inadequate.
For you,
not finite=nothing
finite=bounded/limited
not finite=not bounded
not bounded=infinite
nothing=infinity
For me,
being=infinity
Nothing is that force which makes finite.
When I say nothing, take it to mean the cause of differentiation.
The cause of differentiation is not having access to all aspects of infinity.
Not having access to all aspects=the not being there of some aspects
There must be a there at which to not be, which is why nothing exists only from a perspective.
For you,
not finite=nothing
finite=bounded/limited
not finite=not bounded
not bounded=infinite
nothing=infinity
For me,
being=infinity
Nothing is that force which makes finite.
When I say nothing, take it to mean the cause of differentiation.
The cause of differentiation is not having access to all aspects of infinity.
Not having access to all aspects=the not being there of some aspects
There must be a there at which to not be, which is why nothing exists only from a perspective.
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Dennis Mahar
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- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm
Re: Causation
put human being in a petri dish and take a look.
it exists in 2 ways.
1. ultimately it is produced out of causes/conditions, does not exist in and of itself, from its own side, neither does it possess itself or 'own' anything about itself.
2. conventionally (existentially) by way of a mental conjuring trick it 'believes' it exists from its own side, its life is its own, it owns itself, is 'responsible' for what happens to it.
In that way it experiences disconnection, a sense of utter aloneness.
It is automatically immersed in 'existential terror' and has to come up with a winning formula to prevail.
usually it attaches to winning formulae always/already present in the culture it is born into.
It tries to fit in.
the winning formula is expected to dominate, nevertheless it breaks down and suffering arises.
the winning formula is 'meaning' and human being is 'meaning maker'.
human being knows nothing outside its winning formulas.
there is nothing wrong in any of it.
human being's mental/emotional conjuring trick is a piece/part of causality.
Nagarjuna and Buddha's explanation of existence is a philosophy of existence. It is rational.
It doesn't go into 'God Zone'.
'God Zone' is ineffable silence.
Buddhists fuck the philosophy up by turning it into religion.
effectively, emptiness is an existential winning formula that deals with the elimination of suffering.
its not meant to be 'believed'.
its a possibility for human being to co-habit peacefully and gracefully.
its a suck it and see if it applies.
it exists in 2 ways.
1. ultimately it is produced out of causes/conditions, does not exist in and of itself, from its own side, neither does it possess itself or 'own' anything about itself.
2. conventionally (existentially) by way of a mental conjuring trick it 'believes' it exists from its own side, its life is its own, it owns itself, is 'responsible' for what happens to it.
In that way it experiences disconnection, a sense of utter aloneness.
It is automatically immersed in 'existential terror' and has to come up with a winning formula to prevail.
usually it attaches to winning formulae always/already present in the culture it is born into.
It tries to fit in.
the winning formula is expected to dominate, nevertheless it breaks down and suffering arises.
the winning formula is 'meaning' and human being is 'meaning maker'.
human being knows nothing outside its winning formulas.
there is nothing wrong in any of it.
human being's mental/emotional conjuring trick is a piece/part of causality.
Nagarjuna and Buddha's explanation of existence is a philosophy of existence. It is rational.
It doesn't go into 'God Zone'.
'God Zone' is ineffable silence.
Buddhists fuck the philosophy up by turning it into religion.
effectively, emptiness is an existential winning formula that deals with the elimination of suffering.
its not meant to be 'believed'.
its a possibility for human being to co-habit peacefully and gracefully.
its a suck it and see if it applies.
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Cathy Preston
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- Location: Canada
Re: Causation
Eric something tells me you still don't get it. Infinity isn't a spacial thing. Differentiation isn't the problem either, I get the feeling you are trying to remove the divisions physically but any and all divisions are in the mind.Eric Orwoll wrote:We have different definitions of the word nothing. Language is so inadequate.
For you,
not finite=nothing
finite=bounded/limited
not finite=not bounded
not bounded=infinite
nothing=infinity
For me,
being=infinity
Nothing is that force which makes finite.
When I say nothing, take it to mean the cause of differentiation.
The cause of differentiation is not having access to all aspects of infinity.
Not having access to all aspects=the not being there of some aspects
There must be a there at which to not be, which is why nothing exists only from a perspective.
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Eric Orwoll
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- Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:14 am
Re: Causation
Cathy, physical manifestation is the most convenient form to illustrate the concept. Physical existence itself is just a convention, all that exists is information.
I think there are aspects to both of our philosophies of which the other is still unaware.
I think there are aspects to both of our philosophies of which the other is still unaware.
Re: Causation
Oh how nice.
Mutual rainbow drops, love and kisses.
Signed Nobody; saying nothing, from nowhere, to no one speaking of nothing ( as if there is someone reading this - but we wise ones know it is all pretend) to say nothing so that all the dull ones can know there is nobody to talk to about anything because there is really and truly nothing there to talk about.
Yipeee - enlightenment.
Mutual rainbow drops, love and kisses.
Signed Nobody; saying nothing, from nowhere, to no one speaking of nothing ( as if there is someone reading this - but we wise ones know it is all pretend) to say nothing so that all the dull ones can know there is nobody to talk to about anything because there is really and truly nothing there to talk about.
Yipeee - enlightenment.
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Cathy Preston
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- Location: Canada
Re: Causation
Ok, I won't argue with that, but I don't really have a philosophy.Eric Orwoll wrote:Cathy, physical manifestation is the most convenient form to illustrate the concept. Physical existence itself is just a convention, all that exists is information.
I think there are aspects to both of our philosophies of which the other is still unaware.
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Dennis Mahar
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- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm
Re: Causation
That's sarcasm.Oh how nice.
Mutual rainbow drops, love and kisses.
Signed Nobody; saying nothing, from nowhere, to no one speaking of nothing ( as if there is someone reading this - but we wise ones know it is all pretend) to say nothing so that all the dull ones can know there is nobody to talk to about anything because there is really and truly nothing there to talk about.
Yipeee - enlightenment.
in the background there's a complaint.
where there's a complaint there's a preference.
nothing's wrong, it's just how you prefer it,
its what you like and what you don't.
there you go, what your point of view has been hiding from your point of view is now available to your point of view.
is the opposite of your point of view,
a waste of time?
a waste of space?
both?
Re: Causation
Who said that?Dennis Mahar wrote:That's sarcasm.Oh how nice.
Mutual rainbow drops, love and kisses.
Signed Nobody; saying nothing, from nowhere, to no one speaking of nothing ( as if there is someone reading this - but we wise ones know it is all pretend) to say nothing so that all the dull ones can know there is nobody to talk to about anything because there is really and truly nothing there to talk about.
Yipeee - enlightenment.
in the background there's a complaint.
where there's a complaint there's a preference.
nothing's wrong, it's just how you prefer it,
its what you like and what you don't.
there you go, what your point of view has been hiding from your point of view is now available to your point of view.
is the opposite of your point of view,
a waste of time?
a waste of space?
both?
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Diebert van Rhijn
- Posts: 6469
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm
Re: Causation
Sounds to me like someone is complaining about sarcasm somewhere.Dennis Mahar wrote: That's sarcasm.
in the background there's a complaint
Why bother Dennis? What's the difference in motivation ? Boo cannot be fooled and asks who's talking.
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Dennis Mahar
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- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm
Re: Causation
I'm not complaining about sarcasm Diebert. It happens.Sounds to me like someone is complaining about sarcasm somewhere.
Language is alive with nuance.
sarcasm carries with it a hidden nuance,
that nuance is a preference.
that's his winning formula,Who said that?
he thinks its unbeatable.
he trots it out on a regular basis.
what's of interest is what it hides.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm
Re: Causation
Everything happens. Even sarcasm can happen. The wip crackles! Suffering.Dennis Mahar wrote: I'm not complaining about sarcasm Diebert. It happens.
Language is alive with nuance.
We all keep trotting out our regulars: beating hearts. You are no different - perhaps the intent but it remains secret.that's his winning formula,
he thinks its unbeatable.
he trots it out on a regular basis.
All language hides because the sign does. The behind can never be made 'unhidden'. Only disappear but nobody could tell.
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Dennis Mahar
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- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm
Re: Causation
what about Pam's denial of reason?
everything she writes runs on the rails of reason, her little train chugs along on the rails of reason.
why hide reason?
what's the point?
what's being protected?
Its hard to work out whether 'I am that' is where she came from or where she's going.
everything she writes runs on the rails of reason, her little train chugs along on the rails of reason.
why hide reason?
what's the point?
what's being protected?
Its hard to work out whether 'I am that' is where she came from or where she's going.
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Dennis Mahar
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- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm
Re: Causation
Simply being precedes any story issuing.All language hides because the sign does. The behind can never be made 'unhidden'. Only disappear but nobody could tell.
a point of view hides being.
As Eric indicates, limits being.
the story as hidey-hole.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Causation
Like creation hiding reality. That's the way it is, the only way it can be (otherwise nothing would ever seem).Dennis Mahar wrote: a point of view hides being.
the story as hidey-hole.
It must seem muddled at times, expression wise. Perhaps a sum of possibilities and impossibilities?Dennis Mahar wrote:what about Pam's denial of reason?
But I don't think she hides (reason) - something else is moving with it. Her "mother tongue"?
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Dennis Mahar
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- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:03 pm
Re: Causation
very muddled.
she chugs along on the rails of reason adequately,
realises projection is insubstantial,
vows to eschew projection.
instead throws out reason,
pulls in the Jesus projection,
sets about mothering Jesus,
look out Mary,
stand by for a virgin birth.
belief has to be separated from experience.
experience is:
water is wet,
how?
water is wet depends on an observer configured for water to have wetness.
she chugs along on the rails of reason adequately,
realises projection is insubstantial,
vows to eschew projection.
instead throws out reason,
pulls in the Jesus projection,
sets about mothering Jesus,
look out Mary,
stand by for a virgin birth.
belief has to be separated from experience.
experience is:
water is wet,
how?
water is wet depends on an observer configured for water to have wetness.
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ForbidenRea
Re: Causation
Hmm....
How familiar are we to know that? The basis for lying to ourselves on a computer-ton watt-spider-psych-punch line. Theory?
How familiar are we to know that? The basis for lying to ourselves on a computer-ton watt-spider-psych-punch line. Theory?
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ForbidenRea
Re: Causation
Eyes seeking death
Your all around me
A thought for forgiveness
A thing that sits and wanes
Seek and destroy
God is an alloy
The gimic of sin
Never, shall you win
Your all around me
A thought for forgiveness
A thing that sits and wanes
Seek and destroy
God is an alloy
The gimic of sin
Never, shall you win
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mental vagrant
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ForbidenRea
Re: Causation
Sorry!
I know this isn't a talent show. QRS~
This medeaval ache of mine isn't to profound of any goodness inside of any of you. My good lord, angels g aren't God. God=the mentality of what? Made us. I am no scribe. But, it makes sense to talk to you in a proverb that only "I" should be able to understand. Genius forums Index=causation. Take how many times I've searched this forum and albeit you discover fate. Fate to behold what is unseen. Note: To be continued in about a million milleniums. Peace out!!!
I know this isn't a talent show. QRS~
This medeaval ache of mine isn't to profound of any goodness inside of any of you. My good lord, angels g aren't God. God=the mentality of what? Made us. I am no scribe. But, it makes sense to talk to you in a proverb that only "I" should be able to understand. Genius forums Index=causation. Take how many times I've searched this forum and albeit you discover fate. Fate to behold what is unseen. Note: To be continued in about a million milleniums. Peace out!!!