Faith

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Cahoot
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Re: Faith

Post by Cahoot »

"Faith invariably breeds violence."
- Jiddu Krishnamurti
Freedom from the Known
Page 1

What invariably breeds non-violence?
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Faith

Post by Dennis Mahar »

We know human being in particular has sentience/awareness of the human kind.
We know causality operates.

'God' is guesswork or inference. There is no evidence.
To infer human awareness or awareness is all there is amounts to assumption.

We know that we grant entities their entityness by imputing that on their parts when in fact they do not exist from their own side but are arisen out of causes as conditions.
A condition of their entityness is a thinker with a thought which is itself a condition arisen out of causes.
Nothing exists apart from mind ergo indivisibility.

We have a handle on how it exists.
the rest is ineffable silence.
Pam Seeback
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Re: Faith

Post by Pam Seeback »

When one knows they have found the way of being spiritually perfected, the faith that was once needed to sustain the finding and keeping of this way can be dropped:
Now on that occasion a monk called Arittha, formerly of the vulture killers, had conceived this pernicious view: “There are things called ‘obstructions’ by the Blessed One. As I understand his teaching, those things are not necessarily obstructive for one who pursues them.

"Suppose, monks, there is a man journeying on a road and he sees a vast expanse of water of which this shore is perilous and fearful, while the other shore is safe and free from danger. But there is no boat for crossing nor is there a bridge for going over from this side to the other. So the man thinks: ‘This is a vast expanse of water; and this shore is perilous and fearful, but the other shore is safe and free from danger. There is, however, no boat here for crossing, nor a bridge for going over from this side to the other. Suppose I gather reeds, sticks, branches and foliage, and bind them into a raft.’ Now that man collects reeds, sticks, branches and foliage, and binds them into a raft. Carried by that raft, laboring with hands and feet, he safely crosses over to the other shore. Having crossed and arrived at the other shore, he thinks: ‘This raft, indeed, has been very helpful to me. Carried by it, laboring with hands and feet, I got safely across to the other shore. Should I not lift this raft on my head or put it on my shoulders, and go where I like? No. He should wisely set the raft down and be unburdened." ~ The Buddha
Spiritual integrity demands that everything of imaginative and contemplative thought be wisely set down. Wisdom is of certainty, which is of will, which is not of the ideal realm. Precept by precept, line by line, here a little, there a little, certainty comes and faith [that saved] falls away.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Faith

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Spiritual integrity demands that everything of imaginative and contemplative thought be wisely set down.
The fundamental, primordial unity is realised.
It is never apparent.
The unconscious cannot speak as itself.
It has to rely on the profoundly alienating structure of language which splits the subject and object apart.

The actual realisation is brief and radically transformative.
The experience of 'no mind' where the ego and its attachments to the world collapse and the separation between subject/object disappears.
The person reengages the world in a clarified way.

Walking around on this chunk of rock, spinning and hurtling through space, doesn't matter so much and yet is astonishing.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Faith

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Diebert,
The idea in both cases acts as function to organize - keeping it together.

All organization includes its own sickness, like a tree includes its own molds, fungi and canker rot.

What is this organised personhood?

embodied,
as person,
bodymind,
'til death do us part, if the body goes to London so does the mind.
when body dies, mind does.

embedded,
in a culture,
when in Rome, do as the Romans do, give unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
if the personhood doesn't 'fit in' it will be smashed in like a square peg in a round hole.

enactive,
always engaged in the people, ideas, institutions, equipment of the time and place.

affective.
events matter and are reacted to. somewhat anxious.

extended out into the environment,
needing food, water, clothing, shelter for bodymind to survive.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Faith

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Dennis Mahar wrote:Diebert,
The idea in both cases acts as function to organize - keeping it together.

All organization includes its own sickness, like a tree includes its own molds, fungi and canker rot
What is this organised personhood?
The idea is here that person-hood would be the organization of the body-environment complex. The person itself is not anything organized, perhaps more akin to the five skandhas of Buddhism. One acts from the belief that there is unity for effectiveness. It's almost like challenging the gods with heroic egoist efforts.

To remain within Buddhist terminology: the "self" is a form of wrong belief; ignorance about how it is (not) organized. This misconception needs a supportive universe to last some moments longer. The question then becomes if any idea of "infinite ground of being" functions as support for this misconception or would lead to just understanding.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Faith

Post by Dennis Mahar »

What you seem to be pointing out there is the action of imputing 'wholeness' (unity) on 'the parts'.

that is the action you seem to be describing as challenging the gods with heroic egotistic efforts.
The question then becomes if any idea of "infinite ground of being" functions as support for this misconception or would lead to just understanding.
the fact is what we have is language that makes a subject and a predicate grows out of that which gives us an object.
the danger is 'infinite ground of being' thus becomes an object separate from the subject and a seeker is mocked up looking for the 'infinite ground of being' which it feels separate from.
a bunch of practices get set up like praying, reiki sessions, burning incense, incessant chanting, humble prostations etc..( heroic, egotistic acts)

Is that where you are taking us as a consideration to be brought to bear?
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Faith

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Dennis Mahar wrote:the danger is 'infinite ground of being' thus becomes an object separate from the subject and a seeker is mocked up looking for the 'infinite ground of being' which it feels separate from.
a bunch of practices get set up like praying, reiki sessions, burning incense, incessant chanting, humble prostations etc..( heroic, egotistic acts)
The bigger danger is that objectivity itself becomes lost and "being" diminished because the self tries to diminish the suffering (its being). But it's as far from moksha as it could be.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Faith

Post by Dennis Mahar »

moksha means the realisation of the unreality of the personal self in the psyche (ego).

the mock up gets jettisoned thru' reasoning.

How about the terms:
The hidden sea of unconsciousness.
An empty bliss beyond this world.

this tiny island of consciousness floating in a void.

not particularly of a design to experience unity
configured egoically.
NobodyListens2Genius
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Re: Faith

Post by NobodyListens2Genius »

Truth. Being a "non-believer" and assuming "god" is some magical creature that sits apart from reality, makes you a complete and utter idiot.

Sorry.
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