Forgiveness & Redemption

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby ForbidenRea » Tue May 29, 2012 3:17 pm

Peace-
Requires Everest living.
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Re:

Postby Cathy Preston » Wed May 30, 2012 1:45 am

Beingof1 here is the entire post where I referenced the comment :
That may have been good enough for you but I had to seek further. This just did not get it for me. I did get the answer I was seeking after many years.
As you can see the post has not been edited in any way, nor have I changed your comment in any way.

The question I initially posed is valid.

Have you never stopped seeking?



Cathy Preston wrote:
Beingof1 wrote:
Dennis Mahar wrote:
but the question still remains.


it's open.
we don't know.


You mean; most do not know.

It is truly open - it is beyond conceptualization but it can be experienced. In fact, you are experiencing what it is at this very moment.

There is no question you can ask me that I cannot answer because I know where and what the source is. That is not ego - that is the truth of my experience. Once you realize your thoughts do not come from the internal wiring but are downloaded from the photon, you have access to the quantum information because you are allowing your brain and central nervous system to be used as you make choices. If you believe the answer will appear - it will, because you are allowing yourself the experience and the limitations are lifted.


Downloaded? This is just more separation. There you go, that dirty word believe, you believe the answer will appear, and it does. The same old pattern, with a new story.


Beingof1 wrote:There is no question you cannot answer. When I read the scripture I ask myself "what did I mean when I wrote this"?


You're still seeking, you haven't "found" anything.

Beingof1 wrote:
it doesn't depend on conceptualisation.
quit filling it with stories of 'I' and 'choices'.


You are retreating into conceptual frameworks again. Your conceptual framework is the idea that there are no concepts. You conceive of emptiness and yet you have thoughts about emptiness.

profound silence.


This is truly the infinite field. When thought is absent the infinite field manifests. That does not mean we have no thoughts or we do not make choices - that is denial.


The infinite void, is not manifest it is, was, and always will be. Space is not the 3 dimensional extent that events and objects occur in, consciousness is, and all is subjective, having no thought is impossible, but the kind of thought one has is critical. I can't even say you're in denial, I think you're just not there yet.

Beingof1 wrote:
I am that is far enough.
leave it at that.


That may have been good enough for you but I had to seek further. This just did not get it for me. I did get the answer I was seeking after many years.


Have you never stopped seeking?

Beingof1 wrote:
on the play of causality,
even science is concluding that conditions like alcoholism and criminality are directly related to specific genetic configurations,
caused.


Genetics certainly plays a part in tendencies but it does not determine the outcome. There are many who are born in dysfunctional families and break the chain of addiction. In fact; all the sages of history did it. Choice is what we do - it is just the stunningly obvious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc&feature=player_embedded


The illusion of choice is caused by a belief (there's that dirty word again) in separation. If you truly have choice I want you to change the moment you find yourself in, make the night day, or make yourself appear someplace you're not. Seeing reality eliminates choice, one moment follows the next moment, there is no time for choice.
#


Look I'm not trying to beat you up or anything else, but when you say
Once you realize your thoughts do not come from the internal wiring but are downloaded from the photon, you have access to the quantum information because you are allowing your brain and central nervous system to be used as you make choices. If you believe the answer will appear - it will, because you are allowing yourself the experience and the limitations are lifted.
It clearly implies separation, downloading is the process of getting information from one place to another. It's not that we are interconnected, it's that there are no boundaries anywhere, I can't be connected to something else, because I don't exist, and there is nothing else to be connected to, all that exists is source appearing. Belief clouds reality.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Beingof1 » Wed May 30, 2012 7:41 am

Dennis:

In the ordinary/everyday world what our culture has taught us is that our self is an independent, inherently existing entity.
that the self is on its own in a battle of wits,
that the measure of the self is judged by the quantity of possessions it has.
that there are many selves sectioned and partitioned off from each other.
that reality is essentially a warzone.
that the self must shore up and exploit allies to win wars.

its such as that that emptiness refutes by showing that the self is not an independent, inherently existing entity.


Very true

it follows that a belief in an independent, inherently existing self is the cause of suffering.


Most suffering.

the experiential recognition of emptiness opens the mind up as a new beginning or radical transformation.
this new beginning or Beginner's Mind is the restoration of harmony and peace and an eruption of love and astonishment as to how things exist.

what can be said is that conventional reality (the rules believed in within the human family)

are empty and meaningless.


I agree - it is but one half the equation however.





Cathy:

As you can see the post has not been edited in any way, nor have I changed your comment in any way.



My apologies. It was someone else messing w/me.


BO1:
Once you realize your thoughts do not come from the internal wiring but are downloaded from the photon, you have access to the quantum information because you are allowing your brain and central nervous system to be used as you make choices. If you believe the answer will appear - it will, because you are allowing yourself the experience and the limitations are lifted.

Cathy:
It clearly implies separation, downloading is the process of getting information from one place to another. It's not that we are interconnected, it's that there are no boundaries anywhere, I can't be connected to something else, because I don't exist, and there is nothing else to be connected to, all that exists is source appearing. Belief clouds reality



Do you breathe? You better stop that because that implies a 'self' and that you are 'downloading' oxegen into your lungs. Two bad word fouls and a serious breach of the grand emptiness that cannot be questioned caused by cause and effect.

Do you eat? Why? Another breach of emptiness protocol by the ridiculous belief in a body and that you must 'download' food.

Do you have a brain and central nervous system? Why do you think if there is no brain that can be used to download thought? Emptiness, emptiness, emptiness ....!

BTW - stop drinking water to. So the way to find true emptiness is to not eat, do not drink, hold your breath and stop thinking and the emptiness becomes obvious.


You see; this is my problem with the lopsided philosophy that claims to answer these questions. Its bovine scatollogy to think you are not posting on this forum. Those that claim cause and effect that leads to emptiness answers all questions are pulling your leg.

Logic is used up to a point and the moment it has to deal with this line of questionings - you get retreats into the mystical worlds of 'you ain`t there yet' and 'you have a brain lock' and my personal favorite 'you have to much of a female mind to understand'.

Emptiness answers a very important half of the question - it does not answer the whole question.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Dennis Mahar » Wed May 30, 2012 9:37 am

2 truths are recognised.
conventional reality which appears to be substantial.
ultimate reality which is source appearing.

can it be any other way?
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Kunga » Wed May 30, 2012 10:44 am

Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone utterly beyond, Enlightenment hail!"

The Heart Sutra

Thus have I heard. Once the Blessed One was dwelling in Rajagriha at Vulture Peak mountain, together with a great gathering of the sangha of monks and a great gathering of the sangha of bodhisattvas. At that time the Blessed One entered the samadhi that expresses the dharma called "profound illumination," and at the same time noble Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva mahasattva, while practicing the profound prajnaparamita, saw in this way: he saw the five skandhas to be empty of nature.
Then, through the power of the Buddha, venerable Shariputra said to noble Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva mahasattva, "How should a son or daughter of noble family train, who wishes to practice the profound prajnaparamita?"

Addressed in this way, noble Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva mahasattva, said to venerable Shariputra, "O Shariputra, a son or daughter of noble family who wishes to practice the profound prajnaparamita should see in this way: seeing the five skandhas to be empty of nature. Form is emptiness; emptiness also is form. Emptiness is no other than form; form is no other than emptiness. In the same way, feeling, perception, formation, and consciousness are emptiness. Thus, Shariputra, all dharmas are emptiness. There are no characteristics. There is no birth and no cessation. There is no impurity and no purity. There is no decrease and no increase. Therefore, Shariputra, in emptiness, there is no form, no feeling, no perception, no formation, no consciousness; no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind; no appearance, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no dharmas, no eye dhatu up to no mind dhatu, no dhatu of dharmas, no mind consciousness dhatu; no ignorance, no end of ignorance up to no old age and death, no end of old age and death; no suffering, no origin of suffering, no cessation of suffering, no path, no wisdom, no attainment, and no non-attainment. Therefore, Shariputra, since the bodhisattvas have no attainment, they abide by means of prajnaparamita.

Since there is no obscuration of mind, there is no fear. They transcend falsity and attain complete nirvana. All the buddhas of the three times, by means of prajnaparamita, fully awaken to unsurpassable, true, complete enlightenment. Therefore, the great mantra of prajnaparamita, the mantra of great insight, the unsurpassed mantra, the unequaled mantra, the mantra that calms all suffering, should be known as truth, since there is no deception. The prajnaparamita mantra is said in this way:

OM GATE GATE PARAGATE PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA

Thus, Shariputra, the bodhisattva mahasattva should train in the profound prajnaparamita.

Then the Blessed One arose from that samadhi and praised noble Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva mahasattva, saying, "Good, good, O son of noble family; thus it is, O son of noble family, thus it is. One should practice the profound prajnaparamita just as you have taught and all the tathagatas will rejoice."

When the Blessed One had said this, venerable Shariputra and noble Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva mahasattva, that whole assembly and the world with its gods, humans, asuras, and gandharvas rejoiced and praised the words of the Blessed One.


http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/heartsutra.html
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby jupiviv » Wed May 30, 2012 3:08 pm

Beingof1 wrote:Those that claim cause and effect that leads to emptiness answers all questions are pulling your leg.


The essential nature of all things is emptiness, so a realisation of emptiness does indeed answer "all questions." Cause and effect is a way of understanding this emptiness, but there are other ways as well. Basically, any awareness of reality whatsoever is the awareness of emptiness.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Cathy Preston » Thu May 31, 2012 1:11 am

@
Do I exist or not? If I exist I am the source of everything.

Am I the source of everything? No, therefore I do not exist.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Dennis Mahar » Thu May 31, 2012 2:55 am

You exist conventionally by way of the sheer force of awareness that imputes your existence.
that would be ordinary/conventional awareness.

a discriminating, analytic awareness of a philosophical bent knows your existence is imputed.

phenomena conventionally imputed is for cherishing.
a source of wonder,
much like a magician's trick and how it's done inspires wonder.
there's no point tiring of it.
generating that mood 'a wondrous display' travels nicely.

first there were trees
then there were no trees
then there were trees

Zen knife cuts itself.
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Floating Your Boat

Postby Tomas » Thu May 31, 2012 3:07 am

Cathy Preston wrote:Do I exist or not? If I exist I am the source of everything.

Am I the source of everything? No, therefore I do not exist.

Philosopher George Berkeley said it: a life is just a dream, one of God's many. With or without God, "life is just a dream" expresses the idealistic side of the non-decidable mind-body problem, of which the materialistic side, the "American" sense of reality, is the other: the naive view that the brain through the senses perceives reality "as it is".

Row, row, row your boat
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row,_Row,_Row_Your_Boat

.
Don't run to your death
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Beingof1 » Thu May 31, 2012 4:00 am

Jupiviv:

The essential nature of all things is emptiness, so a realisation of emptiness does indeed answer "all questions." Cause and effect is a way of understanding this emptiness, but there are other ways as well. Basically, any awareness of reality whatsoever is the awareness of emptiness.


Please read through the thread if you have not. I do not have the inclination to answer ten posts so you can get caught up on the discussion.

Cathy:

Do I exist or not? If I exist I am the source of everything.

Am I the source of everything? No, therefore I do not exist.


1) If you exist, you cannot possibly be the source of everything because to exist means to have velocity/position. Therefore, you appear in existence as an observer is true. You have a body that exists is that all you are?

2) What is outside of your consciousness? Is there a universe that appears or manifests without you knowing it?

A particle of mass of any kind does not exist until you focus on it. A particle is stretched to the infinite dimension in the virtual field until you are aware of it and then it 'exists'.

A=A

Dennis:

You exist conventionally by way of the sheer force of awareness that imputes your existence.
that would be ordinary/conventional awareness.

a discriminating, analytic awareness of a philosophical bent knows your existence is imputed.


Your brain and central nervous system is a very sophisticated resistor, capacitor, and processor. It is like a TV and radio waves. Consciousness is the radio waves and your brain is the TV. Your brain and nervous system slows down the spin rate of the field and creates mass. If we did not slow down the field of energy, our entire vocabulary would be "WOW". It would all be white noise of incomprehensible energy.

Thought does not come from the internal wiring that is for processing and function.

phenomena conventionally imputed is for cherishing.
a source of wonder,
much like a magician's trick and how it's done inspires wonder.
there's no point tiring of it.
generating that mood 'a wondrous display' travels nicely.

first there were trees
then there were no trees


Chop wood and carry water ;)
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby jupiviv » Thu May 31, 2012 5:51 am

Beingof1 wrote:
jupiviv wrote:The essential nature of all things is emptiness, so a realisation of emptiness does indeed answer "all questions." Cause and effect is a way of understanding this emptiness, but there are other ways as well. Basically, any awareness of reality whatsoever is the awareness of emptiness.


Please read through the thread if you have not. I do not have the inclination to answer ten posts so you can get caught up on the discussion.


I read the thread before I posted that. You seem to think that choice is something special, but choice is a distinction/concept just like cause and effect, and it applies to choice in the same way it applies to everything else.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Cathy Preston » Thu May 31, 2012 6:04 am

Beingof1 wrote:1) If you exist, you cannot possibly be the source of everything because to exist means to have velocity/position. Therefore, you appear in existence as an observer is true. You have a body that exists is that all you are?

2) What is outside of your consciousness? Is there a universe that appears or manifests without you knowing it?

A particle of mass of any kind does not exist until you focus on it. A particle is stretched to the infinite dimension in the virtual field until you are aware of it and then it 'exists'.

A=A


To have velocity/position equals relativity, to not inherently exist but exist only conditionally. That which is real or absolutely exist must be the source of all things, thereby relative to no-thing nor nothing.

Observer and Observed are dependent on one another, they arise together, one does not appear without the other, there is no I appearing in existence because we arise together, I (observer) and the world (observed) are inseparable and where it all arises from is unknowable.

Something mysteriously formed,
Born before heaven and Earth.
In the silence and the void,
Standing alone and unchanging,
Ever present and in motion.
Perhaps it is the mother of ten
thousand things.
I do not know its name
Call it Tao.
For lack of a better word, I call it great.

Tao Te Ching


You seem to think consciousness is something special, it's not, it's just as dependent on conditions as the body is.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Beingof1 » Thu May 31, 2012 8:24 am

Jupiviv:

I read the thread before I posted that. You seem to think that choice is something special, but choice is a distinction/concept just like cause and effect, and it applies to choice in the same way it applies to everything else.


Who or what makes choice?





Cathy:

To have velocity/position equals relativity, to not inherently exist but exist only conditionally. That which is real or absolutely exist must be the source of all things, thereby relative to no-thing nor nothing.



Could you point out this "which is real or absolutely exist must be the source of all things" so that we may all clearly identify its inherent existence?


Observer and Observed are dependent on one another, they arise together, one does not appear without the other, there is no I appearing in existence because we arise together, I (observer) and the world (observed) are inseparable and where it all arises from is unknowable.


If what you said is true - cause and effect is insufficient by about 10,000 lightyears in answering the conundrum.

It is not the unknowable because you are experiencing it at this very moment. If you are experiencing this arising, how then can you say it is the unknowable?

It is so simple, it is hard to understand, because it is so very simple.

You seem to think consciousness is something special, it's not, it's just as dependent on conditions as the body is.


Show me how you can have conditions or cause and effect without consciousness.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Dennis Mahar » Thu May 31, 2012 9:50 am

Scientists understand dependent arising, they can identify what comes from which causes.
They know that things depend on the amassing of their constituent parts and their causes.
they do not recognise that phenomena are also dependent arisings in the sense of being imputed by thought.
their expertise lies with the temporary, immediate causes, not with the more distant and deeper causes of things.

you will find upon analysis that the photon is merely imputed on pieces and parts that constitute 'photon'.
that 'photon' is merely imputed.
it's only a name.
under 'photon' is quark.
quark is imputed upon a base.
and so on.

some scientists, aware of an imputing consciousness scratch their heads and declare,
there doesn't look like there's anything there except names!
existence is imputed!

do you think human consciousness is the be all and end all
or
is human consciousness relative only to humans.

We construct realities and then forget we were the ones who constructed them.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Elizabeth Isabelle » Thu May 31, 2012 12:18 pm

Cory Duchesne wrote:
The passive want forgiveness (sameness, outer-belonging, homosexuality). The valiant push for redemption (inner-quest, synthesis of new with old, copulation).


What do homosexuality and copulation have to do with this? Surely you don't mean that all passive people are homosexual - in fact most of the passive people who I know are straight.

I can kind of see where a man would associate redemption with copulation, by thinking that if he is spectacular in bed, that makes up for whatever awful thing that he has done. It doesn't necessarily work that way, but that is the way that the average man thinks. I'm just not sure that this is what you meant by your inclusion of copulation in your statement.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Cory Duchesne » Thu May 31, 2012 12:53 pm

When I speak, you have to completely forget literal-minded, physical things.

By copulation, I mean a synthesis between something you love and something maybe you've been indifferent to, or even hate. Klu Klux Clan is a good example of a homo-didactic approach. They are obsessed with how things appear and force reality into something smooth, homogeneous and white. It's homosexual insofar as they seek memetic reproduction in a very bland, safe and homogenous way. Even a celiebate person participates in life's sexuality, insofar as ideas are mixing and reproducing.

In short, a klu klux clan member, like anyone deficient in love and mindfulness, cannot love something different. He hates differences and seeks sameness, outer belonging and hence, in this manner, the criminal is homosexual.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Elizabeth Isabelle » Thu May 31, 2012 1:54 pm

Thanks for the clarification. "Gay" originally meant "happy" and I often thought that it was interesting that the term gay was applied to homosexuals rather than heterosexuals. Under your definition, this observation makes even more sense.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Cory Duchesne » Thu May 31, 2012 2:23 pm

Acts that involve discrimination against people are generally done out of a desire for ease and happiness. It's difficult to open up your mind and heart to something different than you.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby jupiviv » Thu May 31, 2012 7:22 pm

Beingof1 wrote:Who or what makes choice?


If you define choice as a distinction between what you choose and what you do not choose, or what you value and do not value, then that distinction can be made by a conscious mind.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Beingof1 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:13 am

Dennis:

Scientists understand dependent arising, they can identify what comes from which causes.
They know that things depend on the amassing of their constituent parts and their causes.
they do not recognise that phenomena are also dependent arisings in the sense of being imputed by thought.
their expertise lies with the temporary, immediate causes, not with the more distant and deeper causes of things.


And that is why philosophy must take the lead with metaphysical understanding leading to the paradigm of spirituality. We cannot escape our experience, that is to attempt the futile and results in delusion. We can come to understanding as all the great sages of mankind have taught.

Before we come to understanding, we must first have 'faith' that such is possible. When understanding is experienced, the realization is that we create definitions of good/evil, suffering/bliss, superior/inferior, and victim/predator.

All there can possibly be is experience and this could be termed God. If we do not wish do do away with ourselves best find out what and why we are here.Nature abhores a vacuum and it seeks the path of least resistance and therefore; understanding would satisfy all desire of the unknown through surrender to what must be.The surrender to reality involves choice.

Choice becomes more pronounced as understanding evolves and has greater impact.

Example:
A billiard ball table - when the 'break' is made the balls bounce off the rails. Each break is unique and never to be repeated. The balls are all confined to the limits of the rails. If there is only 1 'break' the balls are confined by eternal chaos.

If there are no rails, the balls continue in the set pattern predetermined by the initial 'break' of the rack. Logic exists and therefore; pattern/design with will/intent.


you will find upon analysis that the photon is merely imputed on pieces and parts that constitute 'photon'.


A photon is both "pieces and parts" and a wave all at the same time. If you measure electromagnetic force, the magnitude of the force is F = qvB sinθ where θ is the angle < 180 degrees between the velocity and the magnetic field.

This means that the magnetic force charge moving parallel to the magnetic field is zero. How is it that the pole of a magnet is at a zero state at a 180 degree vector yet electromagnetic range is infinite? Do the math.

How is that possible to do the full equation for the total field without the null state? There is 'emptiness' at the 180 degree pole.

That is how the infinite field works.It is like the movie example, if you snip each frame - in between each frame - is space or the empty set known as zero point.


that 'photon' is merely imputed.
it's only a name.
under 'photon' is quark.
quark is imputed upon a base.
and so on.


If you were looking at a movie - frame by frame - you would be inclined to measure the single frame as a set of stills. you would then determine that a single frame has the potential to carry a perfect image of reality for only a single snapshot.

If however; you turn on the projector, you could see that the actual potential of the single still is to become an entire movie. You would then be inclined to measure the movie but you would have to see the potential for you to create the movie.


The Photon cycle:
Once a photon is absorbed back into the field it is transformed from the potential virtual field and into the real actual energy and the original photon is undetectable. Photon's energy lives on in another form through an infinite circular process. If it strikes a table - the table absorbes the impact and releases electrons.

Addition or subtraction is about the superposition of the wavefunction - zero works for the superposition of the wavefunction. A Photon, once created, has the same and fixed amount of energy in absolute terms for the life cycle of the photon. Photon can be passed through slits resulting in self-superposition (self-interference) and its frequencies may change significantly but its energy stays the same irrespective of the speed of the source or its polarities.

They use a photon for information security because the photon dissapates when struck by a stream of particles. Reverse the equation and information can be extracted from the field. We already use light to push a data stream through fibre optics, your cell phone and radio waves in general.

Your thought is a stream of electrons and is both particle and wave.If the premise is sound - the conclusion is sound.

some scientists, aware of an imputing consciousness scratch their heads and declare,
there doesn't look like there's anything there except names!
existence is imputed!

do you think human consciousness is the be all and end all
or
is human consciousness relative only to humans.

We construct realities and then forget we were the ones who constructed them.


Let C stand for Consciousness
Let A stand for infinite flux
Let d stand for perception

C = dA + A^A: Consciousness equals or transcends the universe. When you begin to start doing the equations for light, they look all to familiar as for consciousness.


All things, ideas, and limits are applied by you categorizing and defining the experience of reality.

What we have found is a new language to describe and communicate the fundamentals of reality. There is strong difference between a zero-dimensional and one-dimensional entity and geometry establishes what is 0D and what is 1D. Is a zero dimensional point infinitely small or large? All this talk about small and big particles is not about the size.

When an electron is a particle it produces a finite number - they may be real or imaginary numbers but conceivable non the less. It functions as energy.

When an electron is a wavelength it is circular(spin) and the function pi - the infinite spin as in a circle and has an infinite amount of points otherwise known as zero point. Its function is information.

A square has four points - a circle has an infinite amount of points.

0/1 = consciousness
1/0 = universe

An orange could pass through the double slit experiment with the right velocity.The equation relates momentum p to the wavelength lambda through an inverse relation that also includes the Planck's constant h, that is:
p = h / lambda. Momentum p is a product of mass m and velocity v. So, the equation m • v = h / lambda deals not only with mass (or density) but also includes the particle's velocity. This remains a subset of the zero dimension no matter how many separate oranges you end up with. There seems to be no other way the math explains what is happening in relation of the potential field to the actual.



The synaptic gap is, without exception, considered an on-off switch. Just like your electrical switch, the current or the signal flows until closed. Who or what opens and closes the pathways?

The 21st century is upon us and the brain cells could now have something to do with the quantum. DNA is the design and experience is the feedback loop. The information is altered by and through conscious choice. What we focus on grows into our experience.

The model of the synaptic gap-switch is really about our own cultural 1D bias. The gaps have two different modes of reaction: the chemical and electrical. What if each gap captures but a particular - that is, specific, set of information. The information would then come in from the outside rather than through the brain's internal wiring.

The brain slows down the field so that we may make choices of what to expand or contract leading to experience.

If you think you can contain the electrons in your brain - you just emitted a series of electrons by thinking about it and most assuredly they impacted the infinite field. We now know, for a fact, the biological cell radiates lightwaves and this carries a data stream.

You just effected me, the world and the entire universe by thinking about it.

Choose
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Beingof1 » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:14 am

jupiviv wrote:
Beingof1 wrote:Who or what makes choice?


If you define choice as a distinction between what you choose and what you do not choose, or what you value and do not value, then that distinction can be made by a conscious mind.



What or who decided to become conscious?
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:03 am

Make a distinction between a mind that conceives of a photon and the photon a mind conceived of.

It's assumed that the photon always existed and was laying about waiting to be 'discovered' by a mind.

is it possible the photon is put there and whatever it entails goes along with it?

scientific theories 'fit' phenomena into the theory.
in time, the theory is shown up as a failure to account for the phenomena.
another theory is formatted and so on,
always moving.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Tomas » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:29 pm

Dennis Mahar wrote:Make a distinction between a mind that conceives of a photon and the photon a mind conceived of.

It's assumed that the photon always existed and was laying about waiting to be 'discovered' by a mind.

is it possible the photon is put there and whatever it entails goes along with it?

scientific theories 'fit' phenomena into the theory.
in time, the theory is shown up as a failure to account for the phenomena.
another theory is formatted and so on,
always moving.

Je-zeus, Dennis. After all the work Beingof1 put into her post, you are able to reduce it down to a mere seven lines.

Bravo!
Don't run to your death
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:55 pm

Good point Tomas.
BofI's generosity and care is warmly appreciated.
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Re: Forgiveness & Redemption

Postby jupiviv » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:52 pm

Beingof1 wrote:What or who decided to become conscious?


We become conscious if we are caused to. Decision implies the presence of consciousness, so it doesn't make sense to ask who decided to become conscious.
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