What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independant"

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independant"

Postby sydney83 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:47 pm

If women identify with the object rather than the subject, they therefore have no individual existence, so how can a woman be strong or independent.

It seems a man is expected to be strong and independent because he's expected to serve society, whereas strong and independent for women means she can survive on her own and support herself without help.

Am I on the right track here...

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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby Talking Ass » Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:09 am

Your enquiry has been noted by the system. Wait patiently and it will be answered in the order if its appearance by a representative of The Infinite®
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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby David Quinn » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:06 am

Or alternatively, you could answer it, Alex.

Strength and independence for a woman is the same as it is for a man. So the answer to that question is inside yourself.

If a woman were to become genuinely strong and independent she would immediately stand out from the crowd and almost everyone would despise her. Other women would despise her the most.

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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby Talking Ass » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:44 am

True, but in a sense it would be 'rude' since she was not directing her question to the likes of me. But your answer was good. I am still at the stage where I doubt that a woman can really be anything more than her biology....

...except in exceptional cases. But I don't know any.
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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby sydney83 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:28 am

David Quinn wrote:Or alternatively, you could answer it, Alex.

Strength and independence for a woman is the same as it is for a man. So the answer to that question is inside yourself.

If a woman were to become genuinely strong and independent she would immediately stand out from the crowd and almost everyone would despise her. Other women would despise her the most.

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David,

That seems unfair, do you think it's because she would be seen as selfish for being strong and independent.
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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby Talking Ass » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:00 am

I reckon that in David's view to be an Independent Woman means to have left.the world and all attachments to it behind. No attachments to body, men, children, the earth-planet, chocolate, masturbation, the phallus, one's hair, cute little shoes (on sale), baby gurgles, cheese, down comfortors, a stylish auto, social status, racy undergarments, organized kitchen with a.space-age blender, respect from the social hierarchies, any sort of future.
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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby Kunga » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:51 pm

If you're not attached, then you're attached to non-attachment.
If you're not attached to not being attached, and not attached to attachments,
then you can eat without swallowing, and your shit won't stink.
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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby Dennis Mahar » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:57 pm

In Jung-speak,
the Stepford wife,
the cultural anima is a slut in the bedroom and a smother mother in the rest of the house.
that's all she's got. (past, present, future to live in to).

The QRS anima is 'timeless'.
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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby skipair » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:08 pm

Generally if it's a woman who mentions being 'strong and independent' it means she's chosen to use masculine energy as a survival strategy. She'll take mental notes about tougher men to help put a cap on her natural emotional flow and be more tough, aggressive and responsible herself.

Unfortunately this is very unnatural for most women and IMO is connected to more harm for her than good. Masculine women are very often emotionally sick...addicted to forms of suffering, unable to romantically love and be loved in a healthy way, often do drugs and operate in ways to cover their masochism.

These are more social 'key words', of course, that happen to be very telling. But it's perfectly possible for her to be strong and independent in a more healthy way. For example she could financially support herself and be strong in principles of inner and outer respect and love. She could primarily run her emotional feminine energy so that she can relax in the world and live in the way she was 'designed' to...a life with more pleasure.
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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby David Quinn » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:56 pm

sydney83 wrote:
David Quinn wrote:Or alternatively, you could answer it, Alex.

Strength and independence for a woman is the same as it is for a man. So the answer to that question is inside yourself.

If a woman were to become genuinely strong and independent she would immediately stand out from the crowd and almost everyone would despise her. Other women would despise her the most.

David,

That seems unfair, do you think it's because she would be seen as selfish for being strong and independent.

I think it's because women are so anxious and insecure that they require all women to "play the game" - the game of being charming slaves to the ideal of womanhood. In this way, the shared illusions on which their happiness depends can be maintained.

If they see even just one woman not playing along, their entire world is suddenly called into question and teeters on the verge of collapse. And so their first instinct is to immediately come down hard on the recalcitrant woman.

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Re: What does it mean for a woman to be "strong and independ

Postby cousinbasil » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:38 pm

DQ wrote:I think it's because women are so anxious and insecure that they require all women to "play the game" - the game of being charming slaves to the ideal of womanhood. In this way, the shared illusions on which their happiness depends can be maintained.

We should note here that you are using the term women and not Woman. I actually prefer that because I thinks it is more honest.

Maybe the real answer is more basic and less generalized. Maybe a lot of women, as you say, are insecure and that they realize they must be in a parasitic relationship with someone in order to survive, and their task is to use camouflage to make the relationship appear more symbiotic. Of course, the man gets to pay for the camouflage. But since this by no means applies to every woman, many want to go out and experience the world to its fullest, as unaware as most men are that to do so is extremely costly. So the women that choose the more vicarious path - the more traditional path - are actually confused by a materially successful person who cannot also be a potential sexual conquest, i.e., a meal ticket for as long as possible. It's not hatred, but gender-identity crises. Women are actually attracted to strong, independent women. If not, they wouldn't pay them the extra attention which they hope comes across as absolute disapproval.

The truth - the Stepford, political trophy bleached blond wife truth, if you will - is that women realize toiling for sustenance is exactly what it is called: hard work. At one point or another, they realize that unlike men, they have a choice. A strong woman will work side-by-side with men; a normal woman realizes she can ride a man's back instead, so she does. In the arrangement, she even has built in someone she can blame for failure.

So if some women seem different in that they are more independent or stronger, it certainly does not mean they are any smarter or more clever.

Don't be such a misogynist, David! ;-)
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