In everything I do ....

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Whatshappening
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In everything I do ....

Post by Whatshappening » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:27 pm

In everything I do, reality responds accordingly.

Is that what's actually happening? Does that describe what's going on?

Does
Gary

ForbidenRea

Re: In everything I do ....

Post by ForbidenRea » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:27 am

You're brain is a follical.

Whatshappening
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by Whatshappening » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:38 am

ForbidenRea wrote:You're brain is a follical.
The challenge is simple, insults aren't required. All that's required is one instance, one example.

One example where reality does not respond accordingly. I challenge you to provide one falsifying example. Only one, that's all it will take.

Take
Gary

Whatshappening
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by Whatshappening » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:18 am

Whatshappening wrote:
ForbidenRea wrote:You're brain is a follical.
The challenge is simple, insults aren't required. All that's required is one instance, one example.

One example where reality does not respond accordingly. I challenge you to provide one falsifying example. Only one, that's all it will take.

Take
Gary
No takers... I'll try a different way. I'll re-phase the comment. The concepts are simple.

In everything I do, truth(s) and condition(s) respond appropriately. This so common to our experience, maybe it's to obvious.

Here's another way, "In everything I do, whatever can, will respond the way it can".

Can
Gary

P.S. It will only take one example to falsify...anybody?

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David Quinn
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by David Quinn » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:25 am

You're just talking about cause and effect, aren't you? That everything has causes and produces effects....?

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Whatshappening
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by Whatshappening » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:13 am

David Quinn wrote:You're just talking about cause and effect, aren't you? That everything has causes and produces effects....?

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Not entirely....but certainly some (regarding cause and effect).

It seems to me reality has parts that change and parts that don't. Of those two, only the changeable parts are subject to cause and effect.

To expect cause and effect with the unchangeable is like fishing in a lake with no fish. It's never going to happen.

That being the case it's valid to conclude that not everything is subject to cause and effect. Thankfully....

Thankfully
Gary

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David Quinn
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by David Quinn » Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:00 am

What is an example of a part that doesn't change?

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jupiviv
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by jupiviv » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:17 pm

Whatshappenning wrote:In everything I do, reality responds accordingly.
Are you yourself not a part of reality? If so, then how can reality respond to what you do?

Whatshappening
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by Whatshappening » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:15 am

David Quinn wrote:What is an example of a part that doesn't change?

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That would be an interesting list, but you only asked for one. I'll focus on the one idea.

If I asked someone to empty out my garage of everything and put it in a pile in the lawn, what would I have? Besides an empty garage, I would have one pile of stuff on my lawn.

Reality is the same, reality is everything that is and isn't.

Just like my pile of garage stuff, there can only be one everything, one reality. Two everythings are not possible. As such that will never change.

That being the case we can know(at least) two constants. One, only the possible has a chance. Two, there is only one reality.

Reality
Gary

Whatshappening
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by Whatshappening » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:45 am

jupiviv wrote:
Whatshappenning wrote:In everything I do, reality responds accordingly.
Are you yourself not a part of reality? If so, then how can reality respond to what you do?
No disrespect intended, but since you're the respondent(part of reality), you're in the ideal place to answer the question. I'm not asking you to answer...explaining the mechanics isn't necessary. That's what faith is for.

How it works, is a faith issue. That it works, is not. That it works, is something you can (do) experience directly.

Directly
Gary

P.S. If you need an example...Think negatively for a week and see what happens.

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David Quinn
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by David Quinn » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:26 am

Whatshappening wrote:
David Quinn wrote:What is an example of a part that doesn't change?
That would be an interesting list, but you only asked for one. I'll focus on the one idea.

If I asked someone to empty out my garage of everything and put it in a pile in the lawn, what would I have? Besides an empty garage, I would have one pile of stuff on my lawn.

Reality is the same, reality is everything that is and isn't.

Just like my pile of garage stuff, there can only be one everything, one reality. Two everythings are not possible. As such that will never change.
In other words, logical truths can't change. Agreed. Anything else?

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jupiviv
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by jupiviv » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:57 pm

Whatshappening wrote:No disrespect intended, but since you're the respondent(part of reality), you're in the ideal place to answer the question.

Sorry I don't understand what you're saying, but I'll clarify what I said. If reality is everything, then it can't respond to anything, because that would mean the thing it responds to is somehow different from it.
Just like my pile of garage stuff, there can only be one everything, one reality. Two everythings are not possible. As such that will never change.
Quantities lose their meaning when we are talking about everything. There is neither a single reality nor many realities.

Whatshappening
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by Whatshappening » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:11 pm

David Quinn wrote:
Whatshappening wrote:
David Quinn wrote:What is an example of a part that doesn't change?
That would be an interesting list, but you only asked for one. I'll focus on the one idea.

If I asked someone to empty out my garage of everything and put it in a pile in the lawn, what would I have? Besides an empty garage, I would have one pile of stuff on my lawn.

Reality is the same, reality is everything that is and isn't.

Just like my pile of garage stuff, there can only be one everything, one reality. Two everythings are not possible. As such that will never change.
In other words, logical truths can't change. Agreed. Anything else?

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Logical truths can't change, so they are not subject to cause and effect. To ask for first cause is to ask for the impossible.

However it seems to me it's a bigger issue then just logical truths. Isn't it the case that every specific condition has specific associated truths?

Isn't it the case that these associated truths never change?

David, can you think of anything else?

Else
Gary

Whatshappening
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by Whatshappening » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:55 pm

jupiviv wrote:
Whatshappening wrote:No disrespect intended, but since you're the respondent(part of reality), you're in the ideal place to answer the question.

Sorry I don't understand what you're saying, but I'll clarify what I said. If reality is everything, then it can't respond to anything, because that would mean the thing it responds to is somehow different from it.
Just like my pile of garage stuff, there can only be one everything, one reality. Two everythings are not possible. As such that will never change.
Quantities lose their meaning when we are talking about everything. There is neither a single reality nor many realities.
" that would mean the thing it responds to is somehow different from it". What makes you think that? If I (part of reality) take a rock and toss it into a lake ( all parts of reality) does the lake respond? Sure it does...

"Quantities lose their meaning..." Again, what makes you think that. Upon reflection the concept is easily understood and loses no meaning. Everything means all ...there can only be one all, regardless of it's size.

All
Gary

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jupiviv
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by jupiviv » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:29 am

Whatshappening wrote:
jupiviv wrote:that would mean the thing it responds to is somehow different from it
What makes you think that? If I (part of reality) take a rock and toss it into a lake ( all parts of reality) does the lake respond? Sure it does...
It is the part that responds, not reality as a whole(since you are a part of it as well).
Quantities lose their meaning...
Again, what makes you think that. Upon reflection the concept is easily understood and loses no meaning. Everything means all ...there can only be one all, regardless of it's size.
The concept of "one" refers to a finite thing. Everything is not one thing, since then it wouldn't be the many other things that exist apart from the one thing. Neither is it many things, since then it wouldn't be the things that don't belong to the group in which those many things are included.

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David Quinn
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by David Quinn » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:51 am

Whatshappening wrote:Logical truths can't change, so they are not subject to cause and effect. To ask for first cause is to ask for the impossible.

However it seems to me it's a bigger issue then just logical truths. Isn't it the case that every specific condition has specific associated truths?

Isn't it the case that these associated truths never change?
If a thing is unchanging, it is only because it is caused to be unchanging. Causality produces both changing and unchanging things.

Logical truths are causally created. The truth that 1+1 equals 2, for example, is created out of the specific forms of 1, 2 and equals. If these things were different, then that truth would be different. So it is true what you say, that each specific thing automatically has its own specific truths, simply from the way it exists.

Another example is the one you mentioned - namely, that there is only one everything. This truth is generated out of the manner of what everything is. If everything were different, then the truth associated with it would be different.

In other words, all logical truths are causally created.

David, can you think of anything else?
Ultimately, the only thing that is without cause is Nature itself - the totality/everything. Being everything, there is nothing else it depends on.

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jufa
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by jufa » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:02 pm

Ultimately, the only thing that is without cause is Nature itself - the totality/everything. Being everything, there is nothing else it depends on.
How do you know this? Please explain! Should there be no cause for Nature, what then would be the cause of that of Nature?


Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com

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jupiviv
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by jupiviv » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:13 pm

David Quinn wrote:Another example is the one you mentioned - namely, that there is only one everything.
How can there be "only one" everything? There may be only one *concept* of everything, but as I said, the concept of one does not apply to everything.

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David Quinn
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by David Quinn » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:39 pm

jufa wrote:
Ultimately, the only thing that is without cause is Nature itself - the totality/everything. Being everything, there is nothing else it depends on.
How do you know this? Please explain!
Because, by defintion, there can be no thing (and therefore no cause) outside the realm of everything.

Should there be no cause for Nature, what then would be the cause of that of Nature?
The cause is the reality that nothing can be beyond, or before, Nature.

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David Quinn
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by David Quinn » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:49 pm

jupiviv wrote:
David Quinn wrote:Another example is the one you mentioned - namely, that there is only one everything.
How can there be "only one" everything? There may be only one *concept* of everything, but as I said, the concept of one does not apply to everything.
There can be many concepts of everything, but when it comes to the sum total of all things that can possibly exist, there is only one of those.

The point you're making is a bit more esoteric in nature. I agree that by pointing out that Nature is not really a thing (since it is everything), strictly speaking it can't really be described in terms of "one" (or "many"). While this is true, it doesn't contradict the lower-level argument I'm giving to Gary.

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jupiviv
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by jupiviv » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:15 pm

David Quinn wrote:There can be many concepts of everything, but when it comes to the sum total of all things that can possibly exist, there is only one of those.
You can say "it is all one" in a poetic way, that does not really mean just a single finite thing. Similarly you can talk about God being the father/cause of all things, while not literally referring to an actual cause.

ForbidenRea

Re: In everything I do ....

Post by ForbidenRea » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:37 pm

Reality is genius.

ForbidenRea

Re: In everything I do ....

Post by ForbidenRea » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:38 pm

Come up with a compliance of wording. Work through, I've forgotten everything. Sum 41.

ForbidenRea

Re: In everything I do ....

Post by ForbidenRea » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:39 pm

The words "I" use are of wording of genius. So, called dialect of another tradition.

Malcolm X

Whatshappening
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Re: In everything I do ....

Post by Whatshappening » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:45 pm

jupiviv wrote:
Whatshappening wrote:
jupiviv wrote:that would mean the thing it responds to is somehow different from it
What makes you think that? If I (part of reality) take a rock and toss it into a lake ( all parts of reality) does the lake respond? Sure it does...
It is the part that responds, not reality as a whole(since you are a part of it as well).
Quantities lose their meaning...
Again, what makes you think that. Upon reflection the concept is easily understood and loses no meaning. Everything means all ...there can only be one all, regardless of it's size.
The concept of "one" refers to a finite thing. Everything is not one thing, since then it wouldn't be the many other things that exist apart from the one thing. Neither is it many things, since then it wouldn't be the things that don't belong to the group in which those many things are included.
"It is the part that responds, not reality as a whole(since you are a part of it as well)." This seems contradictory to your other comments regarding reality as one thing...."as a whole" implies one.

Regardless I'm curious, do you agree "in everything I do, reality responds accordingly"?

With respect to your last comments, "it wouldn't be the many other things that exist ", maybe there's misunderstanding, but the "everything" idea is all inclusive.

Inclusive
Gary

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