The logic of causal transcendence

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Pam Seeback
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The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Pam Seeback »

It is illogical, therefore of Ignorance, of Darkness, to be born only to die. It is illogical, therefore of Ignorance, of Darkness, to form within oneself, a cause, a beginning, when one cannot discover the beginning or ending of their awareness. It is illogical, therefore of Ignorance, of Darkness, to project a condition, an object of finiteness, when one already IS the Light/Ground of Infinity/Omniety that is without conditions, without objects.

It is illogical, therefore of Ignorance, of Darkness, to repeat emotional experiences which are recycling causes/conditions. Fear is fear, love is love, anger is anger, etc. Once one knows what an emotion is, it is illogical, therefore of Ignorance, of Darkness, to desire to experience a 'repeat performance.'

It is logical, therefore of the Wisdom of the Light/Ground of Infinite Forms, to desire to end the recycling of birth, death, of causes, of beginnings, of conditions and of objects.

It is logical therefore of the Wisdom of the Light/Ground of Infinite Forms, to desire to end the recycling of emotional experience.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Desire is contingent on a causal pattern desiring.
There's nothing to get.
Pam Seeback
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Pam Seeback »

Dennis Mahar wrote:Desire is contingent on a causal pattern desiring.
There's nothing to get.
You are right, desire is always present where causal awareness is present. However, there is a difference between the desire to continue forming causal worlds and the desire to cease forming causal worlds. The former desire is common to fools and sages alike, with the difference being that the fool is unaware of the principle of causality, whereas a sage is a Master of beneficial causality, however he defines "beneficial" to be. A Christ or a Boddisattva, however, unlike a sage, liberates the world from the delusion of birth of life, of a beginning point of life, of a "cause." So, if one desires to be liberated from the turning wheel of causality, there is indeed, Something to get.
ForbidenRea

Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by ForbidenRea »

I'm kicking Jehovah, Lucifer, and Jesus off the fuckin planet.
TI
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Tomas
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Tomas »

ForbidenRea wrote:I'm kicking Jehovah, Lucifer, and Jesus off the fuckin planet.
TI
Hello, Paco.

On March 22, 2011, Dan banned you in the 'Psychopaths' thread...

Why have you returned after being banned by Dan?
Don't run to your death
ForbidenRea

Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by ForbidenRea »

Thomas,

Why have you forsaken the laws of identity?

And, with, I am with you on this one thomas.

Forsaken, never! Paco is someone else. I was just merely on here to let you know how good it feels to be around real geniuses and coincidently I am sure you will find your paco.
ForbidenRea

Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by ForbidenRea »

Thomas,

With that, I'd prefer not to be a label in society! For what it's worth I am a genius. And, defacing my profile is not such a good idea. I just quit meditation. What hour is it?
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Tomas
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Tomas »

ForbidenRea wrote:Thomas,

Why have you forsaken the laws of identity?

And, with, I am with you on this one thomas.

Forsaken, never! Paco is someone else. I was just merely on here to let you know how good it feels to be around real geniuses and coincidently I am sure you will find your paco.
Open admit, and move on.

Have a beautiful day, Paco.
Don't run to your death
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

So, if one desires to be liberated from the turning wheel of causality, there is indeed, Something to get.
There's definitely a Story going on here Pam that underpins our conversation.

Like the yarn about Adam and Eve disobeying and leaving home.
About the prodigal son venturing out and returning.
the endless pilgrimage of sentience.
leaving home base and trying to get back.
lost and found.
Seek and ye shall find.

That there is something to get and it is meaningful because there's something to get.

Basically a game of 'cluedo' that gets from the lost position to the found position.

The lost position would be 'something to get'.
The found position would be 'nothing to get'.

Geddit?

There's nothing to get.
ForbidenRea

Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by ForbidenRea »

Denis Mahar,

Thank you for the senario. There is a liklihood in all passion. For when Noah built the ark of gopher wood and brought 2 of each kind of animal all in one into the ark for existences to continue. I get the thread. My balance in nature is nurturing and exciting the facts. I see for once the balance of life. Life. Existence. A=A. The situations in our lives cause us to believe that we are seen and heard. The fact that I'm married to my brother. The fact that I have to write something each and everytime I come on genius forums is harsh. I have enemies, Denis. I don't have any friends at this moment. I'm not a meat eating christian but the story of the prodigal son is a story I listened to while growing up in church. The religious aspect is that you are not alone. Whether God Sadharthus sends you a message it is because your life is turned upside down. The meanings behind any book. My enemies are able to cause me blindness hoax my senses and cleverly cause a total recall of my past.
When I was a kid I sought to be a genius with creativity. I got lost in the "now..." I've searched day and night and found that my recent construit was that I am belonging to nothing.
What? Sex.? Separates us from the boys.
"The Will To Power"

Neitszche

Denis,
Because my enemy has capsized my thoughts and even though I am very literate and can compete on this forum. That doesn't mean I've lost my appetite.
I've simply become a lost soul, Denis. Once you realize you have something inside of you linked to a so called "soul" Then, buddhism, Taoism, all these narcissims are nothing compared to what you believe is real. I mean, what would happen if you never existed Denise? EA Denis, it isn't that I'm a failure at finding the right tools to make this work. It will work. I searched for years, Denis, and I found out that that "soul" is what you need to nourish.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Your mind is actually radiant and quite beautiful Rea.
Any fool can see that.
It's just got itself derailed.
It's got a list of complaints it worries about.
Pam Seeback
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Pam Seeback »

ForbidenRea wrote:I'm kicking Jehovah, Lucifer, and Jesus off the fuckin planet.
TI
Jehovah, Lucifer and Jesus are myths/metaphors for SELF, and you cannot leave SELF. Which means the only way you can kick them off your planet, your world, is to transcend what they mean to you. Until then, they remain in your turning subjective-objective thought world, kicking you in your SELF ass, again and again and again...

The logic of causal transcendence.
Pam Seeback
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Pam Seeback »

Like the yarn about Adam and Eve disobeying and leaving home.
About the prodigal son venturing out and returning.
the endless pilgrimage of sentience.
leaving home base and trying to get back.
lost and found.
Seek and ye shall find.
Dennis, the pilgrimage of sentience is not endless. This is the logic I am presenting in this thread, which you are ignoring. So let me repeat the argument I placed forward in the opening post, and if you respond to this post, please respond to it point by point, give me your logic.

1. It is illogical to be sentient.

2. It is illogical to be born only to die.

3. It is illogical to experience human emotions endlessly, including the highest of emotions, bliss.

4. When Adam and Eve come home, their humanism ends, their logic ends, their emotions end, their sentience ends. They are returned to their pure spirit awareness, to the Infinite Father God or Ground of Being.
Pam Seeback
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Pam Seeback »

Rea: I've simply become a lost soul, Denis. Once you realize you have something inside of you linked to a so called "soul" Then, buddhism, Taoism, all these narcissims are nothing compared to what you believe is real. I mean, what would happen if you never existed Denise? EA Denis, it isn't that I'm a failure at finding the right tools to make this work. It will work. I searched for years, Denis, and I found out that that "soul" is what you need to nourish.
If you are a lost soul, then you are not nourishing yourself with the right food, no?

Thought is food, good thought, A = A, striving for balance, is good food.

Better food, the best food, is an Idea beyond A = A, which is A IS, which is the knowing that God or Life is already balanced, and that you are not separate from this already-existing balance. Here you are striving to be balanced, to find your balance, and the whole time, you are balanced, right here, right now. If you weren't, you wouldn't exist, you couldn't exist. Existence, by its very definition, is a balanced state.

Rea, if you can break through your striving, your humanism, your logical mind, you will see the truth of your perfect balanced state, your GodSELF, and be able to stand on this truth. So many are frightened to give up the striving for balance because they believe that when this happens, Thought, Nourishment, will abandon them. Not so. Logic or Causality has a language, as does Grace or Spirit Awareness.

God cannot leave us because we cannot leave God.
ForbidenRea

Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by ForbidenRea »

Yes, I agree 100% with you MovingAlways. It's just fine just the growth of Ostensibility that undermindes the Totality. I considered the direct approuch to everything you said, exactly. Like reading Joe's Body. I see how you've come across that godself interaction with human beings itself. But, the problem is not that I wasn't born and non-existent, but, the mere fact that I was satiated to the point where I had to kick lucifer, Christ, and God off the planet.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Pam,

Existence Is.
How can it be Illogical?

logic deals with 'how it exists'.

logic also refutes 'I' as a dependently arisen phenomenon, depending on body/mind for existence.
We can't say 'I' doesn't exist, that would be nihilism and counter to our experience.
What we can say is 'I' doesn't have true existence.

As far as I am concerned,
existence amounts to the experience of a 'separate self',
experiencing 'separation anxiety' as a phenomenon to cope with.
2 truths.
The Universe and all that is in it is a contraption, a device, a vehicle, a piece of machinery,
that gets broken through cognitively to realise true existence.
All phenomena is empty.
'I' is empty.
Astonishing.
Pam Seeback
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Pam Seeback »

Dennis, I agree that one cognitively becomes aware of the delusion of the separate self. The principle of ignorance, of dualism, of multiple "I's", is transcended by the principle of wisdom, of the realization of the singular "I." The reason why continuing to give life to sentience is not logical is that it is because of sentience that the principle of ignorance, of "two", of mistaken identity exists. Why continue giving life to the cause of one's mistaken identity?

This is the lesson of Adam and Eve, that they are made of naught but the dust of the ground, Adam as if out of the Lord God, Eve as if out of Adam. Check Genesis Two and you will discover that Adam is caused to go to sleep, to become ignorant, is he not? Check out the New Testament, the Christ principle awakens, I am the [singular] light of the world [Eve, the subjective-objective principle is transcended].

Bottom line is that when Adam/Eve, the male/female belief in dualism [the appearance of belief in dualism, in 'two'] is no more, there is no longer a need to mate with a physical female or physical male. No more human mating = no more human sentience.
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Is the logic for existence that of I exist? Or is I exist the existence of logic? Where is the platform for either to be stood upon and reasoned when existence has no base in logic, and logic has no base in existence other than I? Therefore what is this I which states the reasoning for being has no basis for existence beyond logic, yet logic does not provide a basis for the existence of itself, no less the I of logic? What then is Source for the logic of existence, the existence of logic, or the I which is the awareness of all three, yet unaware of the Source?
Pam Seeback
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Pam Seeback »

The most revelatory statement in your post is that logic, being of the nature of division and of duality, does not provide a basis for existence.

Is there a beginning or cause that can be found for one's existence? No. And yet, man, deluded as he is, keeps spinning his circle of life of logical causes.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

The most revelatory statement in your post is that logic, being of the nature of division and of duality, does not provide a basis for existence.
What we are doing as 'conceptual designators' is suggesting existence as having a design.

What have we got:
sentience, endless pilgrimage of sentience, mental continuum, false sense of I, no thing, absolute existence, non-duality..

You might say existence can exist without logic.
The fact is that it does.

So, where are we at now in our conceptual designation?

That logic is a piece/part of relative existence but has no absolute existence.

If I'm talking to another human being who is in a breakdown situation and suffering,
and I listen to their story,
the flaw in their logic emerges and becomes palpably present, that is producing the suffering,
the task then is to fix up the logic which gets the result of release from suffering.

In the same way Bob at his AA meetings is presenting the logical flaw of self-centeredness to those who are listening.

The way we see it, our conceptual designation, gets the conditions, 'suffering' or 'free of suffering'.

Alex says our 'conceptual designation' is merely platform and 'doesn't do the dishes'...

I say our conceptual designation gets us freedom.
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis writes:
You might say existence can exist without logic.
The fact is that it does.

So, where are we at now in our conceptual designation?
We are where all men will stay, in their own cage of reasoning sailing upon a ship of their own building attempting to explain to themselves the existence of a logical reasoning for existence when:
You might say existence can exist without logic.
The fact is that it does.


Here is the horse rode in answering the following question:
So, where are we at now in our conceptual designation?
We are on a slave ship we built. Then went forth to capture the enslaved thoughts in the foreign continent of our conscious. Upon capture and caging, we sold the freedom of integrity for the temporary pleasure of owning that which could not be owned - the soul of pure flowing thought of the truth that:
existence can exist without logic.


So where are we at now sailing the oceans and seas in our own built ship of logic without logic for so doing. But most of the time, we are up a creek.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Another point I want to make is.
Alex and Laird whinge about reductionism being a flaw of GF.

They designate as I remember, Occam's Razor as the winning formula.
Occam's razor itself, in action, reduces.
It throws stuff out, and keeps stuff in.
Really, can anything be left out?

The GF way of going about it, to my way of thinking, is far more complex to comprehend.
Nothing is left out.
Nothing is right or wrong.
Nothing is good or bad.

If it's phenomena it exists.

How it exists is the inquiry.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

You are still giving it design there Jufa.
Wherever you are at you are designating.
No escape.

The task is to match up the designations with what is actually there.
That's where logic comes in.
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:You are still giving it design there Jufa.
Wherever you are at you are designating.
No escape.

The task is to match up the designations with what is actually there.
That's where logic comes in.
So then tell me what the design is Dennis which I have presented of logic, existence, and I. Give me a design of the design, just saying I am giving it a design without showing the design is putting your self deeper into the cage.

The designation cannot be matched if there is nothing defining to match up. If I give it a design, then match it up Dennis.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Jufa designating is a good start.
Existence as participatory.
Designation possibilities.
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