The logic of causal transcendence

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:Jufa designating is a good start.
Existence as participatory.
Designation possibilities.
Dennis the start is where you placed it here:
You might say existence can exist without logic.
The fact is that it does.
So then demonstrate the logic and reasoning for your participation as I. And for designed possibilities when existence exist and therefore there can be no design uncreated.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

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Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Existence exists.
Exists as a way.
It's relative.
All phenomena depends for existence.
causes/conditions.
No phenomena is self-established.
Each phenomena participates.
An intricate web of interconnectivity.

None of it absolute.
And yet relative and absolute, although distinguished here, are not divorced.

Absolute is glimpsed and indefinable.
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:Existence exists.
Exists as a way.
It's relative.
All phenomena depends for existence.
causes/conditions.
No phenomena is self-established.
Each phenomena participates.
An intricate web of interconnectivity.

None of it absolute.
And yet relative and absolute, although distinguished here, are not divorced.

Absolute is glimpsed and indefinable.
Yes, but you are evading the questions.
Give a source for the logic of existence to exist.
Existence way must have a path you have observed being existence
Exists as a way.
Give the designed logic source for your reasoning for knowing and saying:
No phenomena is self-established. Each phenomena participates.


You have used your reasoning and logic to come this far. Why not go on through the mind and see what it is beyond the mind which is the source?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

I am,
no reason.

a way of being existentially, created out of conceptual designation is not a bad thing as long as the traps are avoided.
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jupiviv
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jupiviv »

movingalways wrote:It is illogical, therefore of Ignorance, of Darkness, to be born only to die.
It is perfectly logical to be born only to die. It is illogical to think that either birth or death have inherent existence. That is samsara.
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:I am,
What?
Dennis Mahar wrote:no reason
No reason for what?
Dennis Mahar wrote:a way of being existentially, created out of conceptual designation
Conceptual designation when there is "no reason" huh?

Dennis Mahar wrote:is not a bad thing as long as the traps are avoided.
How can you reason what to avoid when there is no reason for Dennis? Have you forgot you stated:
Existence as participatory.
Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

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Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

What do you want Jufa?
A theory?
What is the usefulness of theory when truth, finally, transcends all concepts.

We can't ask whether a theory is true.
We can ask if it is meaningful in its accounting for all phenomena.

What is your meaning Jufa?
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:What do you want Jufa?
A theory?
What is the usefulness of theory when truth, finally, transcends all concepts.

We can't ask whether a theory is true.
We can ask if it is meaningful in its accounting for all phenomena.

What is your meaning Jufa?
Just want to speak with you about what is known by us through our direct experiences. If we talk to one another about what we know, not read or been told, we speak the truth in honesty to each other.

Dennis, we have nothing to offer anyone but relativism of truth, or truth of relativism. Either given must be what it is for us through the forest of isms we have traveled and discarded because the Spirit of our righteous has rejected them. The isms can never be our truth. Our truth can never be isms unless not given as received.

Each truth given is a rung in the ladder which will allow us to advance from the dark dungeons of our souls.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


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Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Just want to speak with you about what is known by us through our direct experiences. If we talk to one another about what we know, not read or been told, we speak the truth in honesty to each other.
If I'm hungry I get food.
Supply is the issue.
It's a dangerous World.
lack of supply is the fear.
direct experience.

first rung on the ladder?
getting rations.

Sing for your supper.
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:
Just want to speak with you about what is known by us through our direct experiences. If we talk to one another about what we know, not read or been told, we speak the truth in honesty to each other.
If I'm hungry I get food.
Supply is the issue.
It's a dangerous World.
lack of supply is the fear.
direct experience.

first rung on the ladder?
getting rations.

Sing for your supper
.
Or just be honest with yourself.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Or just be honest with yourself.
You be honest with yourself.

If you agree about hunger and supply.

You have causes/conditions.
What is causes/conditions lacks inherent existence.
Empty.
Direct experience.
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Tomas
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Tomas »

Dennis Mahar wrote:
Or just be honest with yourself.
You be honest with yourself.

If you agree about hunger and supply.

You have causes/conditions.
What is causes/conditions lacks inherent existence.
Empty.
Direct experience.
I can see Jufa and Pam sitting at the kitchen table.

Does food exist?
Let's order pizza!

Hahahah
Don't run to your death
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:
Or just be honest with yourself.
You be honest with yourself.

If you agree about hunger and supply.

You have causes/conditions.
What is causes/conditions lacks inherent existence
.
Empty.
Direct experience.
It's the soft shoe.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

It's the soft shoe.
Is the soft shoe self established?
ForbidenRea

Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by ForbidenRea »

Soft shell.
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:
It's the soft shoe.
Is the soft shoe self established?
Only if you know what song to sang for supper.

You have to be on the mark.


Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


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Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

If you were self established,
If you were running under your own steam,
you would be immutable,
you would be calling the shots.
hot shot.

You wouldn't 'have' hunger.
Supply wouldn't be an issue.
Terror in the face of a lack of supply wouldn't be an experience for you.

You are causes/conditions
You sing for your supper

running like a startled deer

then you die.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Oddly enough, this speaks to many of the issues and concerns touched on here...
Child and singing cradle one
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:If you were self established,
If you were running under your own steam,
you would be immutable,
you would be calling the shots.
hot shot.

You wouldn't 'have' hunger.
Supply wouldn't be an issue.
Terror in the face of a lack of supply wouldn't be an experience for you.

You are causes/conditions
You sing for your supper

running like a startled deer

then you die.
If, if, if, if, if, Cut all the assumption and give me the name of the song you will sing?

Metaphor are no better than assumptions.

Come on, sing it for me Sam.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa


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Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Hunger ain't assumption.

Let's cut off your supply chain and find out.
jufa
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:Hunger ain't assumption.

Let's cut off your supply chain and find out.
But your logic for being is?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Pam Seeback
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Pam Seeback »

Dennis: If I'm talking to another human being who is in a breakdown situation and suffering, and I listen to their story,
the flaw in their logic emerges and becomes palpably present, that is producing the suffering,
the task then is to fix up the logic which gets the result of release from suffering.
You said it succinctly, such counsel of correcting one's logic is a fix. Why? Because all causes, logical beginning points are ultimately an illusion. The way to permanently end suffering then is to transcend logical, cause seeking thinking. Rather than 'fixing up the logic', which keeps one attached to the turning wheel of karma/rebirth, can you take those who come to you with their suffering to the point within their consciousness where
...relative and absolute, although distinguished here, are not divorced.
Being aware of this spot where Soul, the relative, is united to Spirit, the Absolute is the only permanent cure for any and all imagined causal attachments that threaten to arouse our belief in separation. Those who discover this alpha-omega spot where all impressions, desires, thoughts, words and images flow forth from Spirit to Soul need the counsel of no man; herein lies the peace of God. No darkness of depression, hopelessness or fear can touch the man who knows this Touch of reconciling Meaning to Source, this Spot of SELF Love. If hunger should come and end this man's physical life, he would experience his hunger and his physical death fully, but would physically die knowing [ascending into] the Touch of Life.

Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he feeds himself for his lifetime.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

can you take those who come to you with their suffering to the point within their consciousness where
one so far.
not much good at it.
good at short fixes.
fixing isolated incidents.
long haul relationships don't gel when the vagaries of personalities get in the way.
It should be just about the cognitions.
Pam Seeback
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Pam Seeback »

Dennis Mahar wrote:
Pam: can you take those who come to you with their suffering to the point within their consciousness where
one so far.
not much good at it.
good at short fixes.
fixing isolated incidents.
long haul relationships don't gel when the vagaries of personalities get in the way.
It should be just about the cognitions.
Did not the Buddha speak of the cessation of rebirth [of causes/conditions/'isolated' incidents]? Did not the Christ in Jesus speak of the Way, the Truth and the Life of the Unconditioned Kingdom of Heaven?

Should be about the cognitions? You don't know? What of assertion?
Dennis Mahar
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Re: The logic of causal transcendence

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Can you keep a monkey still enough?

How's the road trip?
down to Florida for some sun isn't it?
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