Can people change?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
jufa
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Re: Can people change?

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:
By attempting to identify beyond the line of identification
a stab in the dark?

we can see I AM exists in a sentence.
exists in a conversation people have between each other.
One cannot see anything but what they have been molded to see.

If I am wrong, tell me what a Denniis, or the I of Dennis looks like?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
cousinbasil
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Re: Can people change?

Post by cousinbasil »

Dennis Mahar wrote:Does Reasoning need an 'I'.?
Do you own reasoning?
Where do the results of reasoning reside? Can reasoning lead to different conclusions? Where do those reside?
Blair wrote:
Bobo wrote:Hey prince, do you think that genius is universal (in all things or all people)?
No.
Bobo - haven't you read any of Blair's posts?
Intentionality asserts an I.
Assertion itself implies an I. If this is what you mean, I agree.
Dennis wrote: (I am) Not denying existence exists.
Not denying a sense of 'I'.

How it exists is the question.

Do 'I' own my birth?
Does 'I' own my death?
Does 'I' own my life?
I included the parentheses above, my words, since your style of writing makes your meaning ambiguous in my eyes sometimes. Read as written, "not denying" could be taken as a gerund and therefore the subject of a complete sentence. That entirely alters the meaning - I believe your meaning is consistent in that the "I am" was tacitly implied.

You are saying a sense of I exists, but not conceding that this indicates an actual I exists. But the following questions about ownership are in my view entirely irrelevant to the actual existence or not of an I. Because if you answer no to all of them, it in no way proves or even supports the idea that there is no I but only (a delusional) sense of an I.

Consider these responses to those question: Everyone is born, everyone dies, and between the two, everyone lives. Your posers could be taken as indictments of the idea of "ownership" rather than of the existence of the I.

Suppose that ownership of anything is an illusion, and living within it a delusion. Things can be taken away from you, after all. So can your life, but not if you do not in some sense have it to begin with.

Your philosophy does tend to render everything meaningless - which logically makes the philosophy itself meaningless. Most significantly, it makes learning meaningless, if not impossible, if taken to its logical conclusions. If there is no I, there is nothing that can learn or grow. Your view also makes teaching completely hollow, and the teacher/pupil relationship (as well as any other kind of relationship) untenable, since a relationship requires two or more individuals, which cannot exist according to you.

I guess my point here is really simple. If nobody controls when or if they are born or die, or very much of what happens in between, then that is simply an observation about everybody, and therefore can't prove anything. It would be like asking, do you control how tall you grow? Can you fly? No? Then your I does not exist.

It doesn't follow.
cousinbasil
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Re: Can people change?

Post by cousinbasil »

jufa wrote:One cannot see anything but what they have been molded to see.
I'm not so sure about that.

If by "molded" you include everything that is or has ever been or can be within one's environment, then your point may have some validity. But then what about:

Die Gedanken sind frei, wer kann sie erraten,
sie fliegen vorbei wie nächtliche Schatten.
Kein Mensch kann sie wissen, kein Jäger erschießen
mit Pulver und Blei: Die Gedanken sind frei!
jufa
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Re: Can people change?

Post by jufa »

cousinbasil wrote:
jufa wrote:One cannot see anything but what they have been molded to see.
I'm not so sure about that.

If by "molded" you include everything that is or has ever been or can be within one's environment, then your point may have some validity. But then what about:

Die Gedanken sind frei, wer kann sie erraten,
sie fliegen vorbei wie nächtliche Schatten.
Kein Mensch kann sie wissen, kein Jäger erschießen
mit Pulver und Blei: Die Gedanken sind frei!
Well cousinbasil, let us see if your thoughts are free. Let us first understand what a thought is. Cousinbasil, I'm going to define thought as an unfolding of thinking. This means thought is the subject of thinking. Being the subject, it must follow the principles, patterns, and law of the spirit which it find existence from. This means thought is not free. It is the seed of thinking, and therefore it ferments, then bud, this become the manifested vision of the vision which planted the seed in its soil. "First the blade, then the ear, then the corn in the ear."

So then it is not true
sie fliegen vorbei wie nächtliche Schatten.
Kein Mensch kann sie wissen, kein Jäger erschießen
because the thinker has eliminated the shadow by the light of vision and; they have been shot by thought analyzation.

How do you define thought?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
cousinbasil
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Re: Can people change?

Post by cousinbasil »

jufa wrote:How do you define thought?
Not sure it can be defined - the definition would also be a thought, would it not? Definition of a thing has to come from without that thing, does it not? Kein Jaeger erschiessen.
jufa
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Re: Can people change?

Post by jufa »

cousinbasil wrote:
jufa wrote:How do you define thought?
Not sure it can be defined - the definition would also be a thought, would it not? Definition of a thing has to come from without that thing, does it not? Kein Jaeger erschiessen.
Thought is not a thing. Is not therefore
Definition of a thing has to come from without that thing, does it not? Kein Jaeger erschiessen.
out of context here?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Assertion itself implies an I. If this is what you mean, I agree.
assertion equals assertion.
don't muck it up.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

If I am wrong, tell me what a Denniis, or the I of Dennis looks like?
I AM in a sentence,
in a conversation people have with each other.

SHRIEKS 'thingness'.

one of life's little tricks.
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Listen,
'I' need a mercedes and a new suit.

'I' will give you 'thingness'.

For 200 bucks an hour,
'I' will construct you concept by concept.
All you have to do is attach and send the money.
You'll be 'Looking Good'.
sexy as all get out.

make cheques payable to Guru.
jufa
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Re: Can people change?

Post by jufa »

Dennis Mahar wrote:
If I am wrong, tell me what a Dennis, or the I of Dennis looks like?
I AM in a sentence,
in a conversation people have with each other.

SHRIEKS 'thingness'.

one of life's little tricks.
Did not ask you where you were, asked you what you were, and what you looked like as Dennis.
Anyone can place the word Dennis in a sentence, including yourself. But what were you before you or anyone could do this?
What did you look like before the word in a sentence?
Where were you before words?


Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

That requires an up front cash payment.
$100k.
older bills, of mixed denomination.
non sequential serial numbers.
brown paper bag.
no receipt.
cousinbasil
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Re: Can people change?

Post by cousinbasil »

jufa wrote:Where were you before words?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1-3
jufa
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Re: Can people change?

Post by jufa »

cousinbasil wrote:
jufa wrote:Where were you before words?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1-3
When one becomes a priest of the most high God, they will return to their first love who is "without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, but made like unto the Son of God."


Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

A magpie warbles.

Human beings, conventionally,
in conversations between each other,
assert that it is the magpie doing the warbling.

It looks like the magpie is warbling.
People have sworn on a stack of bibles that the magpie warbled.

It's hard to catch.
It's hard to switch the mind out of conditioned mode.

'Life'
magpies the magpie.
'Life' warbles the warble.

magpie and warble are form.
form is empty.
where there is no form, there is no empty.
therefore empty is empty.
Pam Seeback
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Pam Seeback »

'Life'
magpies the magpie.
'Life' warbles the warble.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1-3
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1-3
John got johned.
John goes to the john.
not for johny,
it's just that johny johns.
johny be good.

bladders are empty.
Pam Seeback
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Pam Seeback »

jufa: When one becomes a priest of the most high God, they will return to their first love who is "without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, but made like unto the Son of God."
I will return to my first love of being the principle and pattern of the warbling of the magpie and the blowing of the wind and the rustling of the leaves and the dying of a sun, each principled and patterned form being one with the other, made like unto the Son [The Word] of God. No image of magpie shall arise, as will no sound of magpie be heard. No sound or sight of blowing or rustling shall arise, as will no sound or sight of wind or leaves. All things will I BE..."speak" the Word, and it is so...
Bobo
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Bobo »

cousinbasil wrote:Bobo - haven't you read any of Blair's posts?
My question was kind of bleak anyway.
cousinbasil wrote:Assertion itself implies an I. If this is what you mean, I agree.
I'm trying to avoid getting tautological (implying it in assertion). Assertion here is opposed to being compelled.
jufa
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Re: Can people change?

Post by jufa »

movingalways wrote:
jufa: When one becomes a priest of the most high God, they will return to their first love who is "without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, but made like unto the Son of God."
I will return to my first love of being the principle and pattern of the warbling of the magpie and the blowing of the wind and the rustling of the leaves and the dying of a sun, each principled and patterned form being one with the other, made like unto the Son [The Word] of God. No image of magpie shall arise, as will no sound of magpie be heard. No sound or sight of blowing or rustling shall arise, as will no sound or sight of wind or leaves. All things will I BE..."speak" the Word, and it is so...
Please! Please take heed movingalways,or you will just become a word in a sentence.
And if someone does not speak or write you,
locked in the useless of you you will be.
In loneliness waiting in the room of toilets for someone or
something to give you life by pen, pencil, or outflow
standing over the urinal, standing over the urinal,
standing over the urina
l,
or a shout out so you will be emptied or johned as:
John got johned.
John goes to the john.
not for johny,
it's just that johny johns.
johny be good.

bladders are empty.
Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa
http://theillusionofgod.yuku.com
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Is johnny johnnying which has johnny sometimes in the john,
a principal and pattern?

just like,
the principle and pattern of the warbling of the magpie and the blowing of the wind and the rustling of the leaves and the dying of a sun, each principled and patterned form
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

excuse me please,
I left the area,
I chose to take a leak,
shit happens.
cousinbasil
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Re: Can people change?

Post by cousinbasil »

I chose to take a leak,
shit happens.
Things like that happen when you get older. Maybe you could try Depends...?
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Pam,
How can an appearance interpret an appearance? How can a projection interpret a projection? Would not reality go insane if this scenario was actually the truth of its core nature?
Why couldn't a projection realise it's projectedness?
If there are possibilities of form as there obviously is, then that is possible.


Siddhartha, when speaking about the cycle of rebirth talked about the ending of 'unwanted' rebirth didn't he?
Dennis Mahar
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Re: Can people change?

Post by Dennis Mahar »

Things like that happen when you get older.
Is that a Platonic leak,
like Platonic love is 'hands off'.
ForbidenRea

Re: Can people change?

Post by ForbidenRea »

A quater mile of this infrared shit; and the bleak are red.
Locked