Colin Wilson

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Kunga
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Kunga » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:09 am

I see Alex more like this :

http://dakini.drupalgardens.com/sites/d ... a2007A.jpg


"Mahakala is seen standing on the corpse of two human bodies, thus symbolizing the death of negativities and the complete uprooting of negative patterns to such a point that, like a dead body, they will not come to life.

It is very important that we know these symbols of Mahakala because many times we have mistaken notions that he may be a clinging spirit or harmful, evil being, perhaps even the Lord of Death ready to devour and attack. One would find great difficulty in relating to the various symbols without understanding that our awakened compassion is the essential quality of the being of Mahakala.

Mahakala has never been known to harm one being, even in the slightest manner, because he is constantly benefiting beings through the continuous play of the enlightened mind."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrathful_deities



(Yeah...I'm a romanitc....)

Dennis Mahar
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:26 am

I like the narrative.

Once upon a time young Vlad, in his travels, came upon a shining Citadel.
Vlad, fearful for the fates of invisible lurkers,
and the sheer waste of untouched virgins,
set about the task of.....

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Talking Ass
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:39 am

...broiling Dennis Mahar-Har-Har over an open pit!
fiat mihi

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:28 am

(Yeah...I'm a romantic....)
kind and compassionate.
the best.
thanks for being there.
can I have your name please?

You see, why I ask is I like nothing better than a conversation for transformation.
When the logic's in,
what shows up is kindness and compassion as its consequence.
It's that expression that inspires me, warms me.
that proves to me transformation is possible for human being.
I hope Pam isn't lost to us.
I haven't met many wise women.

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Kunga
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Kunga » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:06 am

Dennis Mahar wrote:
kind and compassionate.
Yeah, and when that don't work I resort to this :
http://karmachangchubthinley.files.word ... =550&h=733


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vJ7Dw1Ug3r4/T ... 9966_n.jpg

I hate being a bitch though...it takes more energy out of me...really wacks me out for a long time....being kind is much simpler & restores
energy....no harm done...it's tricky and dangerous to help people skillfully being wrathful....if it dosn't work you harm yourself & others...
Last edited by Kunga on Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Kunga » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:16 am

Talking Ass wrote:...broiling Dennis Mahar-Har-Har over an open pit!
Like a Zen Master would ? Or a hate-filled bloodthirsty demon ?

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Talking Ass
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:59 am

Artfully, like Hannibol Lector. Slowly, slowly---agonizingly! I'll roast and devour the sombitch Zen master too, then have lurid sex with his teen daughter...

A blood-thirsty demon? You decide...

Cooking is a kind of 'transformation'...
fiat mihi

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Kunga
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Kunga » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:21 am

Talking Ass wrote:
Cooking is a kind of 'transformation'...
And overcooking destroys all the nutrients.

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Dennis Mahar » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:57 am

whatever the Act, it's wearing a bit thin.
That's my decision.

Your concern Alex seems to be, if we can discuss normally, seems to centre around GF and Absolute.
Emptiness is not concerned with Absolute.
Emptiness concerns itself with phenomenal, perceptible existence.
The logical distinction is that without phenomena there is no emptiness.
There can't be phenomena that is not empty and there can't be emptiness without phenomena.

We notice the constant flux of existence because it's empty of inherent nature.
moving always.
It's only because it's empty that change can happen, that transformation can happen.
That means there's a bit of freedom to build a more enlightened Worldhood that is focused intelligently on alleviating much of the suffering that prevails.

I'm not much good at explaining it.
Maybe you could do better.

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Talking Ass
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:13 am

*Yawn*.
fiat mihi

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:29 pm

Talking Ass wrote:
Finally making progress in honing in on your core issue. Afraid for the emptiness of fake you see it everywhere (to the brim!) in others and the purge is needed to ward it off. One cannot get much more old school religious than this.
But I have never said that I am 'healed' or 'enlightened' or 'spiritual' and I certainly am not very pious. And if I had my way I would have a harem of horny 16-18 year old girls, kind of like an x-rated Benetton Ad, and I would rub myself in butter and dive in every day so I must be still just a wee bit 'earthly'. And I think you are right to note that there are 'religious' values in operation in me. But I never said that one shouldn't have values, religious or otherwise, but that we need to examine more closely which ones we hold to. Are they truly 'ours'? Did we arrive at them 'truthfully'?
Perhaps I shouldn't have used the multifunctional word 'religious' here. Perhaps superstition suffices? Your whole act de resistance is based on fighting the very thing which would threaten your identity, your belief structure. This very fight strengthens you, this is also the reason you continue, why you repeat, where you find the energy, the motive and how it might gratify you. It's a mini-model of the wonderful ego and its demands.

This doesn't mean I disagree with your concerns and exploration at all, only that your focus and projections are aimed "backwards", hence the "ass" symbol which presented itself (not "your' choice perhaps at all). Next time perhaps we can delve into this a bit more when the right topic introduces itself as canvas, as proper contrast.

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:06 am

An Egomaniacal Ass Speaks Out

It's a small thing but it should be 'acte'. And I think it should have been 'théâtre de résistance' since 'acte' is more like a decree.

But you are right on a couple of fronts. And it is quite possible for the 'Apollonian' to defeat (expose) the 'Dionysian' simply by noting it, speaking about it, making it 'conscious'. The 'Apollonian' tendencies in this 'space' really do function in that way.

But to act out of this 'Apollonian' only gives 'us' part of the picture, of ourselves.

I don't believe in 'egolessness' nor the desire to do away with 'ego'. I feel we have to go about 'it' in quite a different manner. This has become much more clear to me having spent this time here. I think we have to really 'become' and to really flower and develop, and in that empowerment of self make conscious choices, 'rational' decisions you might say. I have a pretty strong sense that this 'will' or paradigm is at the core of 'who we are as persons', as Western persons. Obviously it is a 'Greek' idea and of course a Nietzschean idea. So, what more natural thing to do but to take it on, to live it in some way? I always said that I am using this forum for my own purposes. I never hid this. Could you imagine how interesting and dynamic this forum might be if people were being themselves, becoming themselves, instead of putting on acts that they really believe? You do see some of this, don't you Diebert?

And it is possible to mention unconscious or semi-conscious impulses. It is smart. What is inside of ourselves, what is natural to ourselves, will find a way to express itself no matter how strong a 'rational' structure we construct and 'enforce'. To 'work' with our self we have to work with the whole of us.

The QRS model (see Jupi for example, see Kelly...) is more or less utterly deranged. What it 'is' though is a terrible théâtre de résistance of such a monumentally stupid order that it deforms the individual, renders them impotent, null and void: dead. If you think my character is deranged, take a good look at those who try to fit themselves into really absurd characters! There is a strong trend on this forum to 'act out' mental contrivances, and very bizarre ones. Surely you must see this!

And finally, and this is indeed a 'résistance' in the precise sense that Art is a resistance, I am very interested in fiction right now, those novelistic worlds that are created into which one enters and participates in. 'Our' experience is a novelistic experience, mediated by the novel. You may consider it puerile, but 90% of my theatre is a statement that our imagined creations are not invalid or impotent or non-useful in our 'spiritual life'. And I will take it back to that primordial point when each culture, be it Greek or primitive Asian (Taoist or whatever) enacted their sense of meaning and 'spirituality' (life, value of life) through 'sacred pantomime'. Maybe for you, as for QRS and its denizens, that is merely 'ego': aesthetics? A waste of time? I don't think so. It is all about discovering and giving life to our Gestures (a very interesting and multivalent word). Whether you or anyone else here (so many unprepared dullards who have no interest in learning nor in 'wisdom'! and who [seem] only to wish to carry on with pantomimes no sane person should ever be interested in!), please understand this is of absolutely no concern to me. (The true, egoic position!)
fiat mihi

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:44 am

Talking Ass wrote:It's a small thing but it should be 'acte'.
Pardonnez le mot. But it was meant as variant on "pièce de résistance" in the sense of your exaggerated taking of "opposition". Only in that defusing light of yours I might seem to be defending anyone or anything.
I don't believe in 'egolessness' nor the desire to do away with 'ego'.
You're assuming it's agreed upon what is 'ego' in this context. Since we're not talking about some Freudian, Greek or Nietzschean "characterization", I think your paragraph on it here is rather pointless.
I always said that I am using this forum for my own purposes. I never hid this.
Dare to doubt this! It's intrinsically human to hide for himself the most important and dwell his whole life in what's not. Call it tragedy or comedy, see it as entertainment if you like. Perhaps it just had to be that way but why assume it needs to be like that: as central pièce for everyone?
There is a strong trend on this forum to 'act out' mental contrivances, and very bizarre ones. Surely you must see this!
Forums and other online communication do not lend themselves well for this kind of analysis at all. Such quest can so easily become a form of obsession and behavior which serves as pure escapism. It takes a sinner to recognize one!
...esthetics? A waste of time? I don't think so.
It all depends on what ones goals exactly are. You can just carry on with your "pantomimes" and your own "imagined creations" which are just as invalid and impotent. There's only one type of reality, "realness" and authenticity which can have any credibility on a philosophy forum. And your approach is not even touching it!

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Dennis Mahar » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:04 am

The Act is Alex, Alex is the Act.
In fact there is no Alex there at all.
There's causes/conditions producing the Act Alex.
Alex can't even hold his breath for 10 minutes.

The Act Alex is an insult distributor.
a condition of overwhelm that struggles to cope.

Body dies, mind dies, Act dies.

Because Act is empty,
transformation is possible.

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Talking Ass
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:44 am

An Ass Says---Essentially---'Kiss My Ass'

Just as I said: when the 'Apollonians' go to work on the 'Dionysian' they seem to be able to deflate it, to contol it. And it follows, naturally, that our own Wee Dennis quickly picks up on this idea of 'acte' that you initiate. Note how it is weilded.

What interests and concerns me---even IF I carry it out badly, even miserably!---is the ways and means we chose to locate and live out of our vitality, our living selves. Your 'philosophy', for me, is a joke---a rather bad joke! And I want to use this occassion to point out that, like our own dear Kelly with her (*snicker*) 'philosophy', you in your own way have rendered yourself similarly, though minorly, ridiculous. That said, I am ever-more convinced that if we 'do' anything (with our spirituality and our 'philosophy') it is not done merely in the head: we do it with our whole persons, and there is some fire and life associated with it, a putting ourselves on the line. It is 'alchemical' in that sense, and we are not in control of the process, not in the way we might imagine, a very important point. To my mind, this is most of what I admire in Nietzsche---and contradistinctively---least what I admire about this forum, and to some extent you, my dear Diebert. The fact is that you do not have ANY RIGHT to speak from the position you assume about 'philosophy', as if you, especially, are 'doing it'.
Diebert wrote:There's only one type of reality, "realness" and authenticity which can have any credibility on a philosophy forum.
From the start, you have made every effort to control and to modify 'me'. So many here have an intricate image-management game in operation so that a shtick that, more or less, laughs at that, is intolerable. If you can succeed (and you can't) in getting 'me' (and others, by extention) down on your mat, playing according to your rules, for your purposes and designs, your théâtre functions for you, and you, Diebert, get to perform your rôle of Minor Captain, or the Ambassador, or the Greeter! like in some fucking philosophical Walmart!

Power is always a subtext here. The having of it and the use of it. If I do not succeed in getting through to you---and I assume I don't---nevertheless I believe I succeed in getting through to my readers. So, no matter if it is silly, jolly, imagined, grey, colorful, pastoral, urban, simple, complex, sane or insane, shrill, modulated or articulate, the energy is what most matters to me. And that energy has nothing to do with your dreary 'philosophy', and with that of your recent side-kick. The whole point is that this *energy* is prefigured not in words and concepts but in something far more vital and central to ourselves.

It does not surprise me that you do not get this, at all... ;-)

PS: And my thoughts on 'ego' are core to everything I write about, to my whole view.
fiat mihi

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Pam Seeback » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:42 am

Alex, do you acknowledge a condition of eternal hunger? If you do, is this condition something you want ended, both for yourself and for all of mankind?

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:47 am

Do you ask me this question from a truthful desire to understand, is it coming from the integrity of Pam? If so, I will answer and we can dialogue from that point onward; if not, your question is but a lie to yourself and any thoughts I give you will feed the continuum of this lie.

:::devilish grin:::
fiat mihi

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:51 am

(Please excuse my misspelling of wield, a post ot two up).
fiat mihi

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Pam Seeback » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:58 am

Talking Ass wrote:Do you ask me this question from a truthful desire to understand, is it coming from the integrity of Pam? If so, I will answer and we can dialogue from that point onward; if not, your question is but a lie to yourself and any thoughts I give you will feed the continuum of this lie.

:::devilish grin:::
Yes, my question is from a truthful desire to understand what suffering means to me, 'cause that's all I can know, which comes of reasoning the idea of suffering. You game?

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Talking Ass
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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:05 am

Sure, this Ass loves games. I have a reputation for cheating however, so keep your eyes peeled. I will examine your (rather leading) question a little later and make a sincere effort to answer it.
fiat mihi

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:45 am

The Ass-Who-Talks makes the First Move...
Pam wrote:Alex, do you acknowledge a condition of eternal hunger? If you do, is this condition something you want ended, both for yourself and for all of mankind? / My question is from a truthful desire to understand what suffering means to me, 'cause that's all I can know, which comes of reasoning the idea of suffering.
This Earth-sphere is a place of 'hunger', is predatorial, is a bowl of rot & ferment, is a place of attack & defense, is a chemical war, is capturing & devouring, is want & need & struggle. And for all living things, all the paths of life conduce to a terrible & painful death.

So, your question in the face of *that* is a little strange, since to BE this Earth, it has to have all those characteristics, it has to 'be' what it is, and no amount of 'wanting it to end' will ever end it or even change it very much.

The real issue, from my view, is that conscious man confronts/is confronting the nature of this reality, the nature of this place, which cannot change, which is what it is.

The real question arises by placing all the 'answers' to that question on the table and carefully examining them, and then asking the question.

Your perspective, though I doubt you have spent much time considering the origins of that perspective in you, seems to be neo-Buddhist: a conglomeration of or a syncretism of numerous of the 'answer-systems' that have been proposed, historically, but tinged predominantly with 'Buddhism'.

The question is also: What do I make of that, that is, your ideas, your choices, your rap, your preaching (and it very much is preaching, you should be aware of that).

I also think the 'real' question is how a person relates to suffering, since suffering is part-and-parcel of this world. I am inclined toward the 'tragic' option and am moving away from a more metaphysical relationship to suffering (existence). As I have said, I think a more powerful attitude and stance is to imagine Divinity looking on and watching our Gestures: the way we act under pressure, how we improve our present, how we improve our relationship to this 'reality'.

I believe that each person needs to go deeply into their own 'soul' and to seek *vision* and *epiphany* and then needs to work in relation to that. But I am aware that most people will never do that, do not want to do that. I believe that this process of 'going into oneself' is distinct from absorbing religious attitudes from institutions. Only a self-inspired, self-empowered, strong and 'hearty' person can and will do that. Therefore, one must become that kind of person first. (I am aware that this attitude is quite different from what 'the East' demands of a practitioner, generally speaking, and so I can only speak as a Westerner. What an Easterner 'must' do is, naturally, outside of my scope).

No matter what, suffering (pain to the body, mental and spiritual anguish, pain to the heart) will be there. It seems to become a question of 'relation'.

There you have it: the conversational equivalent of 'pawn to K4'...
Last edited by Talking Ass on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
fiat mihi

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Pam Seeback » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:08 am

Alex, had you left out the gross assumptions and blatant prejudice of what you believe about me, I would have continued the dialogue about suffering. End of game.

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:11 am

The first chess game won with one move!
(It's historic, folks!)
fiat mihi

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Dennis Mahar » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:39 pm

You keep snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
You don't even know it.
emotional blindness.

The game being played Pam is that of a 2yo kid.
He sets it up so that he can say NO, NO, NO, NO.
getting that emotional high kids get at that age from saying NO.

Not fit for inquiry at this stage.

Coaching in Ultimate Reality has been going on for thousands of years.
So there is a fraternity of Coaches.
In the background of that there is a Conversation coaches have concerning grasshoppers.
The ideal grasshopper is the one that wants to end the confusion.
The emotionally needy one is not an unusual phenomenon that fronts up with it's Act.

As a parent yourself Pam,
how is the 2yo dealt with?
let them say NO,NO,NO enough times 'til the need to say it clears up?

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Re: Colin Wilson

Post by Talking Ass » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:15 pm

Local Ass, Horrified Before the Notion of a 'Fraternity of Coaches',
Writes Final Missive


I think it is more like this: the 'sick' do everything in their power to overpower and defeat the 'strong' (sorry, I have been thinking of Genealogy of Morals lately). The game is played, the theater is engineered, such that the 'strong' must apologize to the 'weak' and must surrender to their wielding of their 'philosophy'. They always operate in packs or in any case they team up, develop alliances, and try to take down their 'opponent'. It is a very serious game and it is not a joke. But, left to themselves, their own conversation soon withers, there is essentially nothing in it. And they would rather destroy a conversation than to see one continue in which it appears they are 'losing'.

Pay heed to these important points my children. We are in an age of ascending mediocrity.

The Ass Who Talks© came down of his own free will. He sat among you, he spoke lovingly with you, he gave freely of his store of medicines and those tonic herbs he gathers in the High Places. But he can't---he won't!---force feed you like children.

[Ceremoniously hands The Spoon to Coach Dennis...]

Don't go hard on yourselves for being the rather dull knives in the drawer, not the most illuminating bulbs in the hallway. For not all can Shine.

Yes, the Delectible Ass must leave you now!

(No! No!)

Yes, yes, little ones. For how else will you grow?

Dennis, can you break away from Coaching for a minute to sing harmony with me?
fiat mihi

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