GENIUS FORUMS

Anyone have views to share on books by Colin Wilson, such as 'The Outsider' or 'Super Consciousness'?

uncledote wrote:Anyone have views to share on books by Colin Wilson, such as 'The Outsider' or 'Super Consciousness'?

'The Outsider' I find considerably insightful and a good read. Though it, or the rest of his books, have failed to bring any real light into our dark and decaying world. Making Wilson, in my book, but another name on the long, long list of 'enlightened' men who failed to get to the root of the human problem and find a working solution for it.

"In short, man does not yet exist. He is still an animal. And yet the problem now becomes so serious that it threatens his existence." (Colin Wilson - Postscript to the 'The Outsider' - 1967)

Bob Michael wrote: Though it, or the rest of his books, have failed to bring any real light into our dark and decaying world. Making Wilson, in my book, but another name on the long, long list of 'enlightened' men who failed to get to the root of the human problem and find a working solution for it.

It's just possible that you have missed a long, long list of points; or else your working knowledge of"the human problem" leaves much to be desired.

+ = poison

uncledote wrote:Anyone have views to share on books by Colin Wilson, such as 'The Outsider' or 'Super Consciousness'?

Actually, I think I read some of his occult books back in high school. For some reason I associate him with Ginsburg and Burroughs, I don't know why. But I recall enjoying what at the time seemed well-written treatments about topics that would interest a young mind, such as the occult and things your typical school library would not have on its shelves. I believe he was the first person I read that mentioned the Necronomicon.

Michael wrote:...long list of 'enlightened' men who failed to get to the root of the human problem and find a working solution for it.

It's no surprise this 'list of men' failed to get there as there's no such thing at root.

One can only reach as far as the root of the human condition. Since that condition is not a question or anything comparable to another condition, it cannot have any real solution. There are only contemporary "problems", or situations, which come and go, arrive and dissolve, sometimes with human feedback being part of the equation or equalization. Many reasonable men have succeeded at times here while others failed, simply because the whole of circumstance is beyond their control.

Of course one could speak of a lack of attention and courage to face the human condition. Or how to take something else mistakenly as the root of human life (its problem, its suffering) or to misidentify the nature of suffering itself thereby continuously creating false senses of distraction, of escape and comfort which might enable someone, or not, to move on for a while.

I believe the wise to be able to grow beyond problems and solutions. Only on the occasions where rationality is deemed important, irrationality becomes by default the "problem" and challenge. The situation however quickly becomes another distracting "game", another "ritual' and can become stale rather quickly.

You don't understand, Diebert. These men failed because they each lacked the balls to collar a wench and drag her back to their cave.

Come on, get with the program!

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Blimey!

"The human problem" is irrationality. All of enlightened have pointed to the solution to it. It's not their fault no one sees it!

David Quinn wrote:You don't understand, Diebert. These men failed because they each lacked the balls to collar a wench and drag her back to their cave.

Come on, get with the program!

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That's only part of the problem, David. Though granted it's a large part. But first a few men who have the 'balls' to be superMEN must be found and fully developed.

jupiviv wrote:"The human problem" is irrationality.

What is the cause of this irrationality? Why are we still "animals" as Wilson alludes?

jupviv wrote:All of enlightened have pointed to the solution to it. It's not their fault no one sees it!

I maintain that no enlightened beings to date have understood themselves or the nature of the fallen human condition (the "irrationality") thoroughly enough to play an effective role in its solution.

cousinbasil wrote:It's just possible that you have missed a long, long list of points; or else your working knowledge of"the human problem" leaves much to be desired.

Interesting assessment. However, I feel I'm the only man ever who has left no stone unturned, c/b.

Bob Michael wrote:

cousinbasil wrote:It's just possible that you have missed a long, long list of points; or else your working knowledge of"the human problem" leaves much to be desired.

Interesting assessment. However, I feel I'm the only man ever who has left no stone unturned, c/b.

Yes, it is pretty evident that this is your delusion.

It's one thing to believe that you have left no stone unturned. It's quite another to think you are the only one who ever has done so. Surely, Bob from Reading, there must be some cosmic reason why this could be the case? Or at least a portent. A star over Reading when you were born (if that's your hometown)? More likely a hole in the ozone layer.

David Quinn wrote:You don't understand, Diebert. These men failed because they each lacked the balls to collar a wench and drag her back to their cave.

Come on, get with the program!

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If only you could look at women through the eyes of love, David. You would then have an entirely different understanding and opinion of them.

cousinbasil wrote: Yes, it is pretty evident that this is your delusion.

It's one thing to believe that you have left no stone unturned. It's quite another to think you are the only one who ever has done so.

Can you name some others, c/b?

cousinbasil wrote:Surely, Bob from Reading, there must be some cosmic reason why this could be the case? Or at least a portent. A star over Reading when you were born (if that's your hometown)? More likely a hole in the ozone layer.

Time alone will tell, I suppose. Nevertheless, I continue to stay the course. Which ain't always easy considering how exceedingly rare potentially enlightenable stock is, at least here in this neck of the woods. Though if and when someones does manage to fully breakthrough his "human, all-too-human" conditioning or enculturation here in Pennsylvania Dutch country (where I've been born and raised) you then have dynamite in the human form.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Many reasonable men have succeeded at times here while others failed.....

Succeeded at what? Creating a body of genuine free or pure Spirits around them? I know of none who've done so.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:.....simply because the whole of circumstance is beyond their control.

If one is in perfect relationship with the Infinite, then he too has ALL power, intelligence, and control, no?

Bob Michael wrote:Can you name some others, c/b?

Selecting from an available pool consisting of you and me, no, I can't.

Bob Michael wrote:

David Quinn wrote:You don't understand, Diebert. These men failed because they each lacked the balls to collar a wench and drag her back to their cave.

Come on, get with the program!

If only you could look at women through the eyes of love, David. You would then have an entirely different understanding and opinion of them.

I’m more of a tree man myself. What is the difference between a tree and a woman when looked at through the eyes of pure love? There is no difference. They each fully reflect nirvana.

Why do you see a difference? The answer is simple. Trees don’t satisfy your lust for sexual fulfilment, intimacy, comfort, security, affirmation, etc. The distinction you make comes from impure motives, not pure ones.

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David Quinn wrote:I’m more of a tree man myself. What is the difference between a tree and a woman when looked at through the eyes of pure love? There is no difference. They each fully reflect nirvana.

Why do you see a difference? The answer is simple. Trees don’t satisfy your lust for sexual fulfilment, intimacy, comfort, security, affirmation, etc. The distinction you make comes from impure motives, not pure ones.

-

You're surely a clever one all right, David. But I think your cleverness is your prison.

Colin Wilson wrote:Ever since I was twelve, I had been preoccupied with the question of the meaning of human existence, and whether all human values are not pure self-delusion. No doubt this feeling was intensified by my dislike of the vague, brainless, cowlike drifting of the people around me.

I felt the same way as Wilson from even a younger age than him. However, unlike Wilson, as life went on eventually I gradually got sucked into the ways of the brainless herd of humanity all around me to a considerable extent. Though at the age of 36, upon coming to an existential crisis, also unlike Wilson to my knowledge, I began to extricate myself from the mediocre ways of the herd and began the journey of being (living) true to my own self. So Wilson's problem regarding his apparent inability to fully understand the nature of the human dilemma and be genuinely effective in the resurrection of any of his fellows seems to me to be that he's a once-born rather than a twice-born type of enlightened person.

cousinbasil wrote:Selecting from an available pool consisting of you and me, no, I can't.

I think Nietzsche came the closest of all of them to turning over all the stones. And I'm inclined to agree with Freud that Nietzsche had "a more penetrating knowledge of himself than any other man who ever lived or was likely to live."

Bob Michael wrote:

jupiviv wrote:"The human problem" is irrationality.

What is the cause of this irrationality? Why are we still "animals" as Wilson alludes?

This irrationality is the same as any other form of irrationality, and it has many different causes. A major cause is our ancestry - we are descended from irrational things like apes and water.

Bob Michael wrote:I maintain that no enlightened beings to date have understood themselves or the nature of the fallen human condition (the "irrationality") thoroughly enough to play an effective role in its solution.

So why are they enlightened?

jupiviv wrote:This irrationality is the same as any other form of irrationality, and it has many different causes. A major cause is our ancestry - we are descended from irrational things like apes and water.

But clearly the human evolutionary process is at a stuck point. It's come to the point whereby we're now becoming more like robots than animals.

jupivi wrote:So why are they enlightened?

A man can experience enlightenment (a radical shift in mind functioning or a new phase of consciousness), but this doesn't mean he'll be omniscient or infallable. Nor will he necessarily be of any value in the enlightenment of others.

Bob Michael wrote:A man can experience enlightenment (a radical shift in mind functioning or a new phase of consciousness), but this doesn't mean he'll be omniscient or infallable. Nor will he necessarily be of any value in the enlightenment of others.

You maintain that you know of no one who has ever turned over so many many stones to find "the solution to the human problem" as yourself. Your main theme seems to be that even so-called "enlightened" beings fail to inspire others or effect any kind of lasting impact on humanity as a whole. Given the fact that you also don't appear to be getting anywhere peopling your fantasy Ark - and you're not getting any younger - and you don't even appear to be enlightened in any manifest way despite all those overturned stones, one is left to wonder what you are going on about.

I suggest your expectations are as misplaced as your diagnosis of the ills of the world. Your dim view of the state of the world indicates an insufficient level of self-analysis. You find fault everywhere else.

And I don't mean this to be a personal attack, because I have no knowledge of your personal shortcomings except that I am certain they are there and in numbers. I base this entirely on what I perceive to be your erroneous Weltanschauung, which I see as marked by a curious lack of compassion. Though I am sure you'd disagree.

Bob Michael wrote:A man can experience enlightenment (a radical shift in mind functioning or a new phase of consciousness), but this doesn't mean he'll be omniscient or infallable. Nor will he necessarily be of any value in the enlightenment of others.

I grant that he will not be omniscient and infallible, but his enlightenment will be of great use to others, since he will be able to point out their faults and make the truth known to them.