Why I want to participate in this forum

[larrykueneman]

I am deeply concerned (and am considering the writing of a book) about the loss of the potential of genius in children by age six, rarely to be regained. I am attempting to identify the causes for both the decline of genius in most children, and the encouragement of genius in a few. Assuming the validity of Garner's eight forms of intelligence, how are these a factor both in the killing and the fostering of genius. Just simple questions here that should take only about a generation to answer:-)

[Blair]

Tit.

Oh, how do I get banned from this chicken-shit outfit anyway?

[Bob Michael]

I am deeply concerned (and am considering the writing of a book) about the loss of the potential of genius in children by age six, rarely to be regained. I am attempting to identify the causes for both the decline of genius in most children, and the encouragement of genius in a few. Assuming the validity of Garner's eight forms of intelligence, how are these a factor both in the killing and the fostering of genius. Just simple questions here that should take only about a generation to answer:-)

Why the loss of the potential of genius? Why not simply the loss of the natural state, the loss of genuine humanness? Or perhaps the irreparable dehumanization of the child? My view is that many of those who we and they consider themselves geniuses actually have been dehumanized by their conditioning and as a result have neurological makeups that are out of balance whereby the reasoning, analytical, and logical functioning overwhelmingly prevail at the expense of the intuitive or feeling functioning. Rendering many of these so-called geniuses 'brilliantly insane' and thereby successfully dehumanized.

[Blair]

An even bigger Tit ^ pipes up.

Bob, sorry to break it to you, Pal, but you aren't respected by your's, truly.

Get it, yours truley?

Oh, you don't get it right?

your'es, true, Lee?

Oh, you don't get it right?

your is truely?

Oh, you don't get it right?

yourz trulee

Oh, you don't get it right?

You be crapshit wanker


Oh, you don't get it right?

You are really good and smart


Oh, you don't get it right?


you be number won, ok?


Oh, you don't get it right?


I hereby declare that Bob Michael is the best of all bestest, he is wise and above all of this.

That's the level of his desire. Poor bastard.

Hey Bob, you will never get a more ringing endorsement than this, anywhere!

Jacass.

Kis my as.

Toad.

[David Quinn]

I am deeply concerned (and am considering the writing of a book) about the loss of the potential of genius in children by age six, rarely to be regained. I am attempting to identify the causes for both the decline of genius in most children, and the encouragement of genius in a few. Assuming the validity of Garner's eight forms of intelligence, how are these a factor both in the killing and the fostering of genius. Just simple questions here that should take only about a generation to answer:-)

You would have to define what genius is. It commonly refers to extraordinary talent, but genius is so much more than this.

The broad answer to your question is: genetics (deficient hardware) plus cultural upbringing (the presence of unnecessary obstacles).

Thus the solution would have to involve making genetic changes (optimising the hardware in terms of intellect, empathy and fearlessness) and cultural changes (pushing society's focus beyond the petty and the mundane) .

Ideally, the goal is reach the stage where only accidents and anomolies would prevent a child from developing into genius.

-

[larrykueneman]

Bob is correct in that the entirety of the humanity of many children is stolen by ignorance. It is this that I address. Have a look at the following:

CHILDREN
Soon after birth
We baptize our children
To cleasne their souls.
Then begins
The long, slow process
Of teaching them sin.
Every child is born
A potential genius.
Yet parents fear of change,
And knowledge that the easy road
Is tradition over truth
Condemns most to be dullards.

[Bob Michael]

My studies of the lives of many genuinely outstanding men (I care not for the term genius as many so-called and/or self-proclaimed geniuses and athletes and other sorts of 'specialists' I find are very often considerably lopsided in their human development and thereby not at all truly wholesome, selfless, well-rounded, or centered human beings), along with the examination of my own life, clearly indicates that the circumstances of their formative years (which could very well be attributed to fate just as well as to God) were such that their innate flame of curiosity, sense of wonder and awe, and taste for the mysterious were never completely snuffed out of them as is the case with vast majority of people. Though even in most of these favorable cases these things, along with one's childhood purity and innocence, do very often become badly tarnished or corrupted to varying degrees through the necessary and unavoidable association with a 'fallen', violent, grossly self-centered, and un-self-knowing human world.

Hence, in most cases, including my own, a radical and organism shaking or shocking rebirth or tranformative experience(s) will have to be undergone in order to begin to make the return to one's natural human state of being and then to also begin to 'fully develop' this rare state. And while many men have in fact gone through this vital rebirth experience, rare, if it has ever occured at all, are they who have totally developed themselves into, let's say, a genuine Superman (and more in the context of Aurobindo's Superman rather than Nietzsche's). So until such a man becomes fully developed and appears with the perfectly understood story of his own life's experiences and his return to fullness of human being along with a genuinely workable approach for the 'salvation' of a few like-foundationed 'elect', even they will not breakthrough and will continue to be deceived by not only all-too-numerous lopsided and limitation-bound men of the cloth, gurus, politicians, etc., but also by those who are similarly stuck in their own so-called genius. In a community of wholesome and spiritually and humanly healthy and happy human beings the idea of genius will not exist or at best will simply be sniggered at. Nor will be the notion of Supermen exist either, who will then simply be but finally finished or perfected men. Men who are totally free of all traces of their enculturated "human, all-too-human" ways.

I was quite impressed with the following article Cory pointed out here a few days ago. It clearly details my own life's experiences, the need for developmental crises, and the nature of the eventual liberation or return to one's natural human wholeness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Disintegration

The main reasons that virtually all the heretofore godmen, gurus, saviors, etc. have failed to be effective in the awakening of others was because they failed to clearly realize that only a relatively few people are capable of transformation, along with failing to realize the nature of and stressing the need for the vital and necessary rebirth experience(s).

Christ touched on these areas ('unless a man be born again.....' -'many are called, but few are chosen'), but then, as a result of not fully understanding himself and the nature of and the importance of these things, put them on the back-burner and consequently got way too far ahead of the class, so to speak, and consequently failed to produce any goods. Thereby leaving an incomplete and ineffective teaching or gospel behind him which was quickly drug into the mud of non-understanding and exploitation of others by the blind, ignorant, and unenlightened or not fully enlightened masses. Including those enlightened but unperfected beings among them.

Normal adults never stop to think about such concepts as space and time - these are things that children ask about. My secret is I remain a child. I always ask the simplist questions, I ask them still. (Albert Einstein)

Unfortunately Einstein remained too much a child and never grew up or matured enough to ask to the tougher and more complex questions whose answers would have been of benefit to solving the fallen human condition. Hence his 'genius' was clearly lopsided, immature, or childish. And above all, lacking in strength and courage, which continues to be the same case with many other 'lettered' and unlettered men AND women.

The book of Revelation, rightly placed at the end of the New Testament, reaches beyond it into the future that is all too palpably close with its apocalyptic terrors. The decision of an ill-considered moment, made in some Herostratic head, can suffice to unleash the world cataclysm. The thread by which our fate hangs is wearing thin. Not nature, but the "genius of mankind," has knotted the hangman's noose with which it can execute itself at any moment. This is simply another facon de parler for what John called the "wrath of God." (Carl Jung - 'Answer to Job')

[larrykueneman]

Bob Michael's writing is that of a very bright guy who is probably not an academic, but may well be self-trained. The reason I say this is that I spent my working years in technical publications, and quickly learned that good writers write for all, while academics write only for other academics.
I started as a tech writer ending up as manager of tech pubs departments for various organizations. I was also fortunate to have written in about twenty different disciplines, something that is not done in today's world. Such experience allows me to read much in good writing, and say that Bob should consider writing poetry.

By the way, while I was born in Los Angeles and raised in Southern California, where I now live, I did spend seven years in Shillington, where I owned a microfilm service bureau.

[Dennis Mahar]

The only thing Bob has said in just about all the ways that it can be said is:

'I'm hot and everybody else is not'.

In terms of Poetry that has to rank somewhere south of the limerick.

Bob's just a thing thinging in it's orbit.

[Bob Michael]

Bob is correct in that the entirety of the humanity of many children is stolen by ignorance.

"From the moment of birth, when the stone-age baby confronts the twentieth-century mother, the baby is subjected to these forces of violence, called love, as its mother and father have been, and their parents and their parents before them. These forces are mainly concerned with destroying most of its potentialities. This enterprise is on the whole successful." (R. D. Laing)

"Without the stimulus of love the organism cannot develop properly. The child that has not been adequately loved during the first half-dozen years of its life will be most seriously affected in that capacity which is of such great importance for human beings, namely, the capacity to relate oneself in a warm and engaging manner towards others. The child that has not been adequately loved is likely to grow up trained in the incapacity to love others. He is the 'cold fish' whose world is one-dimensional, arid, and virtually completely free of all emotional relationships or tenderness." (Ashley Montagu)

"A human nurtured instead of shamed, and loved instead of driven by fear, develops a different brain and therefore a different mind. He will not act against the well-being of another nor against his larger body, the living Earth." (Joseph Chilton Pearce)

"The greatest terror a child can have is that he is not loved, and rejection is the hell he fears. I think everyone in the world to a large or small extent has felt rejection. And with rejection comes anger, and with anger some kind of crime in revenge for the rejection, and with the crime guilt--and there is the story of mankind." (John Steinbeck)

"To love is the greatest thing in life; and it is very important to talk about love, to feel it, to treasure it, otherwise it is soon dissipated, for the world is very brutal. If while you are young you don't feel love, if you don't look with love at people, at animals, at flowers, when you grow up you will find that your life is empty; you will be very lonely, and the dark shadows of fear will follow you always." (J. Krishnamurti)

[Bob Michael]

The only thing Bob has said in just about all the ways that it can be said is:

'I'm hot and everybody else is not'.

In terms of Poetry that has to rank somewhere south of the limerick.

Bob's just a thing thinging in it's orbit.

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candle stick; and it giveth light to all that are in the house." (J. C.)

Trouble here is that most people in the house prefer the darkness. Hence the light is only appreciated by a few, and then usually with considerable doubt or uncertainy.

[jupiviv]

The broad answer to your question is: genetics (deficient hardware) plus cultural upbringing (the presence of unnecessary obstacles).

They're not really obstacles to genius, since if a genius confronted them then he would be able to overcome them. Rather, they may be present in the place of genius.

I would say that geniuses would start becoming more common when people decide to define the word "genius" more clearly, and separating it from their emotions.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

I would say that geniuses would start becoming more common when people decide to define the word "genius" more clearly, and separating it from their emotions.

Any increase of clarity in defining/divining anything at all would be a good start and yet it's also the main effect of genius.

[jupiviv]

Any increase of clarity in defining/divining anything at all would be a good start and yet it's also the main effect of genius.

Yes, in order to have genius, you need to have genius. You can try to cultivate it with what you have, but there's no guarantee that you will get it in the end. What really matters is that you understand what it is with perfect clarity.

Unfortunately people seem to think that genius is like a soup, and either it has a special ingredient which only some people have access to, or it can be prepared by anyone with the "secret" recipe(brought to the public for the first time by new agey books like "The Secret"), or a combination of these.

By the way, the definition of "genius" doesn't necessarily have to be "consciousness". It may well be something else like "extraordinary talent", which would basically mean that every single thing in the universe is a genius. But people normally exclude a lot of things from the category of being extraordinarily talented, because their definitions are based on attachments.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

By the way, the definition of "genius" doesn't necessarily have to be "consciousness". It may well be something else like "extraordinary talent", which would basically mean that every single thing in the universe is a genius.

Both definitions are unnecessary. Better would be to see it as the capability of demonstrating the essential. It's like the essential expressing the essential. In a way the mind in itself does it already all the time: getting the gist of whatever. Everyone now is some genius. But the ideal genius is therefore the pinnacle of mind: the process of minding the mind itself, getting into the whole and grasping what's always there. This then finds new expression through genius.

[Dennis Mahar]

Bob,

Trouble here is that most people in the house prefer the darkness. Hence the light is only appreciated by a few, and then usually with considerable doubt or uncertainy.

The Book is already written.
The names of the saved souls are listed in the Book.

It's a done deal.

Where's the trouble?

Continue on your Victory Lap.

Gloat your exalted status and chide the rest of us for lack of.

[larrykueneman]

My understanding of genius is that it is not extraordinary, but is common, yet just as commonly extinguished by parents, peers, teachers, ministers, and almost every person the child has exposure to.

And as to "the book is written," and "the names of saved souls are listed in the book," I say that's not only BS, but it is specifically this attitude that guarantees that most children will be dullards as adults. I did not escape this treatment, and to this day 79 years on, still do battle with the past.

By the way, the first reference to the information given in The Secret that I have found is the 28 weekly lessons by Charles Haanel presented as the Master Key System, which was written in 1912. Beware, this book is a nightmare to read for even me who spent a lifetime as a writer. Note that some editions have lost the last four lessons.

[Bob Michael]

The Book is already written.
The names of the saved souls are listed in the Book.

It's a done deal.

Where's the trouble?

Continue on your Victory Lap.

Gloat your exalted status and chide the rest of us for lack of.

Even the best of the 'elect' are not yet 'saved', but continue to be hopelessly stuck and still suffering in the wall-to-wall human darkness. Right-Leadership and a sane setting will be necessary for the great task ahead. So the victory is not yet - but soon. And there's no gloating whatsoever here (there's no self to gloat), just a pointing out of the simple facts of the matter.

[Dennis Mahar]

I wanted to see where you stood in that 'it is written' story Bob.

Are you and Larry pals in real life?

[larrykueneman]

Dennis, I mentioned living in Shillington (1977-1984) because it is contiguous to Reading, PA where Bob says he lives. No we likely never met, and I currently live in the mountains behind Palm Springs, CA.

And now we both see where Bob comes from regarding the Book.

[David Quinn]

My understanding of genius is that it is not extraordinary, but is common, yet just as commonly extinguished by parents, peers, teachers, ministers, and almost every person the child has exposure to.

So what exactly is genius, then?

-

[David Quinn]

The broad answer to your question is: genetics (deficient hardware) plus cultural upbringing (the presence of unnecessary obstacles).

They're not really obstacles to genius, since if a genius confronted them then he would be able to overcome them.

That may be true for older geniuses, but the thread is about very young children developing into geniuses. Even a giant oak was once a little sapling vulnerable to minor forces in the surrounding environment.

-

[jupiviv]

That may be true for older geniuses, but the thread is about very young children developing into geniuses. Even a giant oak was once a little sapling vulnerable to minor forces in the surrounding environment.

I don't think rearing a child a particular way will make him a genius. How does one even get around rearing a child in a "pro-genius" way - giving him candy every time he draws a picture of the Buddha? It may equally well cause him to become a mommy's boy. On the other hand, a child growing up in an unstable family may become a genius.

Basically, human beings have evolved to breed and not be geniuses, and that is the reason there are no geniuses. If this situation is to change, then it would probably do so over quite a long period of time, and there would have to be a lot of geniuses around. But I don't think there's much chance of that happening.

[Dennis Mahar]

Bob,

Right-Leadership and a sane setting will be necessary for the great task ahead. So the victory is not yet - but soon. And there's no gloating whatsoever here (there's no self to gloat), just a pointing out of the simple facts of the matter.

If there's no self.
how does the task get done?
how does right leadership happen?
how is a sane setting set?

Larry,

Dennis, I mentioned living in Shillington (1977-1984) because it is contiguous to Reading, PA where Bob says he lives. No we likely never met, and I currently live in the mountains behind Palm Springs, CA.

OK. nice to be with you Larry.

[larrykueneman]

Psychologists have implied that genius is the term describing people who have extraordinary capabilities, and originally, it seemed that was the situation. However, more recent findings indicate that genius would be the normal case if we didn't screw up our children. This damage isn't intentional, it is the way we were taught by our parents back hundreds of generations.

I was unintentionally damaged by my parents, and I didn't do a good job with my child, but it was that experience that pushed me to investigate what goes on in a childs experience that make the difference in their life from age six onward.

On occassion, parents do things differently and the kid grows up with his or her fearless curiousity intact. Generally, under these conditions we think the kid is exceptional, when with a closer look it may prove that it is the parents who had establish an exceptional experience for the child, who then grows as he or she was intended in the first place.