Can someone confirm my understanding the QRS philosophy?

[Cahoot]

Today I went down the stairs and onto the street. The sun was shining. Sounds of kids playing filtered over from far away. A crow sqwarked overhead. Rubbish was strewn from an overfull bin, which I stepped around. A car passed, and a neighbour said hello.

-

This is good writing. It appeals to the senses, it is economical and unsentimental, simple and yet sophisticated. A word sketch, actually, and more effective and lingering than a photograph in fulfilling the intent to capture the essence of a moment.

Bob perceptively points out, in his own way, how introducing modern-day clichés into this sensory description, clichés such as sentimental tunes or hackneyed descriptions of subjective emotions, would introduce a saccharin falseness, a sugary glaze over this window on reality.

[Bob Michael]

When the illusion of separation vanishes one becomes the suffering of the world, as this suffering manifests within one’s range of perception. This is very painful, one does not choose this, and it cannot be stopped. It cannot be reasoned away, no more than one can reason away a disease or an attacking animal. There is only an intense and immediate need to stop the physical pain and mental anguish within oneself. It is debilitating, one cannot function.

I've been at such a vital breakpoint many times. Pain and suffering are the necessary touchstones to radical transformation and spiritual growth and development. And one should be grateful for the innate organismal sensitivity that's necessary for deep suffering. Whereas the bulk of humanity, being irreparably desensitized, are at best merely momentarily discontented and incapable of suffering deeply. Hence there'll be no transformation and new being for them as there's no sound foundation in them to rebuild upon. So one must welcome suffering, go deeply into it, and ask unpleasant, often terrifying, and at times seemingly unanswerable questions, from which alone can spring a new life and a totally new being. And of course the answers to 'all' the questions.

[Bob Michael]

Hey Bob - you don't exactly come across as a barrel of laughs yourself.

I'm not here or anywhere for that matter to be funny, to entertain, or incite laughter in others. Rather, I'm dead serious regarding the search for truth and the future of man.

What exactly in Quinn's writings prompted this little personal insult and your present sarcasm? Granted he's a bit of a boor sometimes, but he's Australian so it's understandable.

Why is expressing my true feelings about someone necessarily a "little personal insult?" And what's wrong with the two questions I asked David above? My days are filled with much joy and gratitude and very often the hills (and the valleys too) are alive with the sound of music. And more power to others who may also experience these same things. Lastly, I have no qualms at all regarding anyone telling me how they feel about me or answering any questions someone might ask me.

[David Quinn]

Today I went down the stairs and onto the street. The sun was shining. Sounds of kids playing filtered over from far away. A crow sqwarked overhead. Rubbish was strewn from an overfull bin, which I stepped around. A car passed, and a neighbour said hello.

Was your heart overflowing with joy and gratitude, David?

Or.....let's say.....were the hills 'alive' with the sound of music?

Oh dear.

I thought you wanted to talk about our experience of and relationship to the Infinite, not the conceptual and emotional barriers we like to erect to remain distant from it. About the experience and relationship itself, as opposed to what our egos can greedily extract from it.

-

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Seems to me that no one herein has gone beyond the limits of logic and reason and has thereby entered into that rare mystical and all-knowing dimension of existence.

Nobody ever does.

However once everything is burned up which can burn, and rarely it comes that far, the simple and ordinary can describe the ashes better.

[cousinbasil]

Why is expressing my true feelings about someone necessarily a "little personal insult?"

That's being disingenuous, and I think you know that. But since you asked, expressing your "true feelings about someone" is not necessarily anything. However, when those true feelings are "I seriously question your own maturity, manliness, courage, human integrity, and capacity to be a fully living embodiment of the Truth," it perhaps could be construed as offensive.

And what's wrong with the two questions I asked David above?

No one said anything was wrong with the questions, Bob, but you did manage to evade the one I asked you.

[cousinbasil]

I'm not here or anywhere for that matter to be funny, to entertain, or incite laughter in others. Rather, I'm dead serious regarding the search for truth and the future of man.

So then why are you "filled with much joy and gratitude" if the future of man is as desolate as you paint it?

[Bob Michael]

Oh dear. I thought you wanted to talk about our experience of and relationship to the Infinite, not the conceptual and emotional barriers we like to erect to remain distant from it. About the experience and relationship itself, as opposed to what our egos can greedily extract from it.

You failed to answer my questions, David.

[David Quinn]

Ah, the questions. What were they again? "David, do you take enjoyment from painting lipstick on cows? " And, "Do you feel gratitude for not existing?"

That was them, wasn't it?

-

[Anders Schlander]

Let's say for a moment you could leave Logic and Reason behind. What would that be like? And how would you explain it without logic and reason?

Via the sharing of one's personal experiences of life, death, rebirth, and the developing of a living relationship with the Infinite.

Don't you think the sharing of one's personal experience of life, death, and rebirth are an act of reason? if yes, then obviously one uses reason and logic to develop into enlightenment, right? well, since no reason or logic exists in enlightenment as defined, clearly one can't enter into a living relationship with the Infinite, because to do so would mean to know that one is in an absence of logic and reason, yet one can only know this by reasoning that there is an absence of reason, which is impossible, an absence of reason/logic simply can't exist, it can't be known, there is no use talking about it.

[Bob Michael]

But since you asked, expressing your "true feelings about someone" is not necessarily anything. However, when those true feelings are "I seriously question your own maturity, manliness, courage, human integrity, and capacity to be a fully living embodiment of the Truth," it perhaps could be construed as offensive.

Yes, I suppose it could be, and especially if the shoes happen to fit.

No one said anything was wrong with the questions, Bob, but you did manage to evade the one I asked you.

Yes, I was well aware of that when I replied, but chose to let it slide rather than take the time to fit it in. However, the answer to your question of what exactly in David's writings (and mannerisms) prompted me to question his spiritual integrity and manliness would be his evasiveness, though there are many things. People tell on themselves to the wise and self-knowing. Likewise photos can also speak volumes.

[Bob Michael]

Don't you think the sharing of one's personal experience of life, death, and rebirth are an act of reason?

No, it's simply a matter of stating the facts of one's experiences as one understands them. Though overflowing compassion and feelings can also be expressed or radiated in the process of sharing, which may also help awaken long-dormant feelings in the listener or listeners.

[Anders Schlander]

Don't you think the sharing of one's personal experience of life, death, and rebirth are an act of reason?

No, it's simply a matter of stating the facts of one's experiences as one understands them

okay.

[Bob Michael]

So then why are you "filled with much joy and gratitude" if the future of man is as desolate as you paint it?

Joy and gratitude can indeed be experienced in the now regardless of the darkness or the tragic nature of present or future circumstances. However, the future of man is to someday experience universal peace and true brotherhood. Though a great hell must and will come upon the earth in order for these things to finally take place.

[Bob Michael]

Ah, the questions. What were they again? "David, do you take enjoyment from painting lipstick on cows? " And, "Do you feel gratitude for not existing? That was them, wasn't it?

If you say so, David. And your answers are?

[Bob Michael]

Seems to me that no one herein has gone beyond the limits of logic and reason and has thereby entered into that rare mystical and all-knowing dimension of existence.

Nobody ever does. However once everything is burned up which can burn, and rarely it comes that far, the simple and ordinary can describe the ashes better.

And in the ashes one will find that a radical shift in mind or brain function and a restoration to sanity have taken place.

[David Quinn]

Ah, the questions. What were they again? "David, do you take enjoyment from painting lipstick on cows? " And, "Do you feel gratitude for not existing? That was them, wasn't it?

If you say so, David. And your answers are?

Why would you want them? Aren't you bloated enough?

-

[Bob Michael]

Why would you want them? Aren't you bloated enough?

Overflowing vessels of Truth never get bloated, David. You should know this.

[David Quinn]

You're definitely overflowing with something, but it isn't Truth.

Not yet at any rate.

-

[Bob Michael]

You're definitely overflowing with something, but it isn't Truth. Not yet at any rate.

What might it be then, David?

[Russell Parr]

I'll take a guess: An overwhelming urge to limit the meanings of the words "reason" and "logic"?

[Bob Michael]

I'll take a guess: An overwhelming urge to limit the meanings of the words "reason" and "logic"?

I'd prefer to think it's an overwhelming urge to bring the light of love, truth, and understanding into our dark and decaying world. Of course while fully realizing that this is not at all the sort of medium of communication in which to successfully accomplish such a thing. Though it's a reasonably good testing ground in preparation for such an adventure.

[David Quinn]

You're definitely overflowing with something, but it isn't Truth. Not yet at any rate.

What might it be then, David?

Emotion, basically. Refined and sophisticated, of course, but emotion nonetheless. Your emotions and words still speak to the separation of yourself from the Infinite, rather than your integration with it.

You're not in a position to speak about "going beyond" logic and reason, when you haven't yet travelled the path of logic and reason to the very end. One can only go beyond logic and reason by pushing through them to the very limit and out to the other side. What you're doing instead is casting aside logic and reason prematurely because of a desire to experience emotional joy. It is causing you to be satisfied with lesser attainments that are far short of the ultimate.

-

[Sphere70]

We can never be separated from the Infinite, David. It's only the delusion that we are separated from it that causes the suffering - a delusion caused by miss-identification with the 'furthest' extension of consciousness - thoughts and emotions. Reverse the process and go head into the rabbit hole.
Worth mentioning again though is that we cannot be separated from it.

You're not in a position to speak about "going beyond" logic and reason, when you haven't yet travelled the path of logic and reason to the very end. One can only go beyond logic and reason by pushing through them to the very limit and out to the other side. What you're doing instead is casting aside logic and reason prematurely because of a desire to experience emotional joy. It is causing you to be satisfied with lesser attainments that are far short of the ultimate.

This didn't seem to be true with someone like Ramana Maharshi for example. And I doubt that Buddah pondered logically over cause and effect under the bodhi tree - I think his 'attention' was elsewhere, in deeper depths - neither with emotions nor rationality.

[Bob Michael]

Emotion, basically. Refined and sophisticated, of course, but emotion nonetheless. Your emotions and words still speak to the separation of yourself from the Infinite, rather than your integration with it.

Emotions may play into things a bit, but not in any real limiting manner. Though it's a fact that technically speaking I'm not in perfect harmony with the Infinite at all times. Nor do I know of any man who ever was. However, practically speaking I feel I have a oneness with the Infinite that is sufficient enough to effectively move others to radical change and/or enlightenment, and then assist in their continuing spiritual development towards perfection. While remembering here that only a very, very few people are capable of transformation and genuine enlightenment. Which surely doesn't make things easy.

You're not in a position to speak about "going beyond" logic and reason, when you haven't yet travelled the path of logic and reason to the very end. One can only go beyond logic and reason by pushing through them to the very limit and out to the other side. What you're doing instead is casting aside logic and reason prematurely because of a desire to experience emotional joy. It is causing you to be satisfied with lesser attainments that are far short of the ultimate.

I think you're overplaying a need on my part to desire emotional joy. It simply comes as a by-product of perfection. Exuberance is beauty, as Blake once said, and it can have positive effects on others and the evolutionary process. Of course there are many too who will hate it. When one has repeatedly entered into the spiritual realm or dimension of existence he's gone beyond reason and logic. Which is to also have undergone a shift in brain function from a self-protective thought mode to an intuitive mode. Or from a self-centered orientation to a God-centered one. It could also be said that one must push deep into the depths of insanity and then breakthrough and come out the other side. And while such a person may fall back into the old mode or self from time to time and under certain circumstances, ideally he'll have a clear awareness of the nature of that backsliding and immediately work on making the necessary changes, adjustments, or fine-tunings. And as far as my being satisfied with lessor attainments, this is not the case at all. I sometimes wish I could become self-satisfied and rest on my laurels like so many enlightened men have done. But this is not my lot in life. I've always been and continue to be one very restless human being who finds true rest or stillness of mind only in moments of perfect oneness with the Infinite.