Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment process

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Cahoot
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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Kunga
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

Post by Kunga »

lol we could raise some hell around here :) That would get QRS back ! :)
Sphere70
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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jupiviv
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

Post by jupiviv »

I'm totally with Sphere70 on this one. I much prefer to see things than to read them, and I'm sure quite a few people have that mental disposition. So the absolutely no images rule is nonsensical, or in other words:

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Sphere70
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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Jupiviv:

That's a modern day koan if I've ever seen one!

Enlightenment-autobahn over here
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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David Quinn
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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Ok, you guys have had your fun. But you have 24 hours to either delete these images or replace them with a link. Otherwise the entire thread will be deleted.

I'm not having this forum degenerate into just another mindless kiddie playpen on the internet.

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Sphere70
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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Bobo:

haha

Good one
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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Kunga
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

Post by Kunga »

David Quinn wrote:Ok, you guys have had your fun. But you have 24 hours to either delete these images or replace them with a link. Otherwise the entire thread will be deleted.

I'm not having this forum degenerate into just another mindless kiddie playpen on the internet.

David Quinn
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http://www.chicktalkdallas.com/userfiles/pout.jpg
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jupiviv
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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David Quinn wrote:Ok, you guys have had your fun. But you have 24 hours to either delete these images or replace them with a link. Otherwise the entire thread will be deleted.
The no images rule is meaningless, unless it's for the purpose of preventing people from posting large pictures. I think you can easily monitor that if you made it well known and checked the new threads once every day. Posting links to a picture ruins the whole effect of the picture.
I'm not having this forum degenerate into just another mindless kiddie playpen on the internet.
As opposed to a few of the other threads here...? This is not 4chan, David. We're not going to post pictures of a Japanese girl eating her own shit or a dolphin having sex with a scuba diver just for the sake of it. Pictures can sometimes speak much more than words, and sometimes assist them in expressing a certain meaning. Banning their use is just silly.
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David Quinn
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

Post by David Quinn »

The main reason the forum is exclusively text-based is that words force people to think, even if it's just to express themselves with some clarity. It also helps maintain a serious tone.

Pictures encourage banality, as can be seen in this thread. The internet is already awash with banality, without this forum having to contribute to it.

-
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jupiviv
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

Post by jupiviv »

David Quinn wrote:The main reason the forum is exclusively text-based is that words force people to think, even if it's just to express themselves with some clarity.
Pictures, when rightly used, also force people to think and express themselves clearly. Kevin Solway uses pictures often enough in his site. Hakuin used to paint. Just because you can't see any meaning in pictures doesn't mean everyone can't.
It also helps maintain a serious tone.
Nothing wrong with jokes if they help a person understand the truth a bit better.
Pictures encourage banality, as can be seen in this thread.
Words also encourage banality, and this can also be seen in this thread itself.
Sphere70
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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Why the hell should we control banality and so-called irrationality? If it get's banal then that's the way it went. There is meaning in banality too, that is meaningful non-meaning, or meaningless meaning. To control things into a specific idea of importance and 'seriousness' is contrived and non-wise.

Would these guys be banned and whipped to the corner of insincerity and irrationality?

A monk asked Chao-chou, "Has the dog Buddha nature or not?" Chao-chou said, "Mu."

A monk asked Dongshan Shouchu, "What is Buddha?" Dongshan said, "Three pounds of flax."

A student asked Master Yun-Men (A.D. 949) "Not even a thought has arisen; is there still a sin or not?" Master replied, "Mount Sumeru!"
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Cahoot
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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“A culture that is rooted more in images than in words will find it increasingly difficult to sustain any broad commitment to any truth, since truth is an abstraction requiring language.”
- Kenneth Myers

“The one thing television can't do is express ideas.... There is a danger in translating life into an image, and that is what television is doing. In doing it, it is falsifying life. Far from the camera's being an accurate recorder of what is going on, it is the exact opposite. It cannot convey reality nor does it even want to.”
- Malcolm Muggeridge

“To say that ‘the camera cannot lie’ is merely to underline the multiple deceits that are now practiced in its name.”
- Marshall McLuhan
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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jupiviv wrote:Pictures, when rightly used, also force people to think and express themselves clearly. Kevin Solway uses pictures often enough in his site. Hakuin used to paint. Just because you can't see any meaning in pictures doesn't mean everyone can't.
Maybe David could take the pains to be a hands-on administrator. Instead of axing an entire thread, target those instances in which the pictures are not being rightly used. Clearly, he is right - on this thread most of them are inappropriate to the forum in general.

After all, David and Dan issue warnings on text-based posts when the content is inappropriate, but they rarely bring the hammer down on an entire thread. Why not just use the same criteria for images?

BTW, this would answer Kunga's objection that Leyla's were allowed. First, they were her own work. Second, they were in Worldly Matters. Third, they are high-quality and not attempts at being clever or ridiculous. Besides, David probably never saw them, since it is my guess he avoids Worldly Matters chatter.
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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“The one thing television can't do is express ideas.... There is a danger in translating life into an image, and that is what television is doing. In doing it, it is falsifying life. Far from the camera's being an accurate recorder of what is going on, it is the exact opposite. It cannot convey reality nor does it even want to.”
- Malcolm Muggeridge

This is nonsense on many levels.

First - the camera cannot want to convey anything, but the person using it can, and often uses it to convey the truth. I submit the Viet Nam war was hastened to an end because TV transmitted images that verbal reporting alone could not.

To say television cannot express ideas is confusing the medium with the message - they are not the same thing in general. It is like saying a book cannot express ideas. Of course it can't - the writer does.

A movie can express the ideas of its makers with an immediacy simple text cannot, and done correctly, with a complexity and impact text lacks. And that movie can be shown on television.

People debating can help explore ideas and shine different lights on an issue - and that debate can be televised.

If Muggeridge is objecting to the fact that people confuse TV with reality, or think a thing is somehow more real if it is on TV, he should say that. In his own quote, he shows how words can obfuscate the reality of things just as easily as television.
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Cahoot
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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http://www.medialit.org/reading-room/camera-always-lies
quote:
The belief that "the camera never lies" betrays the fact that someone chose what, when, where, why, and how to photograph. Every step a photographer makes in taking a picture involves subjective choices, from the camera angle (looking up, looking down, eye level) to the framing (what to include and what to leave out) to the moment of exposure (when to shoot and when to wait). A photograph is always a decontextualized representation of reality recorded by a human being who makes conscious and even unconscious choices based on his or her cultural upbringing, experiences and biases. Joan Fontcuberta, editor of the Spanish magazine PhotoVision, insists that the phrase "manipulated photography" is a redundancy, since every photograph is manipulated.
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Cahoot
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

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How Photography Lies, Even When It's Telling the Truth: FSA Photography & the Great Depression

http://johnedwinmason.typepad.com/john_ ... _lies.html
Sphere70
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

Post by Sphere70 »

Well, that Truth can't either be spoken or shown is maybe the only Truth - which itself is unTrue.

All words are false.

All images are false.

It's all a matter of taste of entertainment.

Debating if a picture shows the Truth (or truth) more than words is really the wrong discussion, that is to say there isn't a right discussion.
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

Post by cousinbasil »

I wish I still had my Idi Amin T-shirt. Chicks dug it.
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

Post by jupiviv »

Cahoot wrote:“A culture that is rooted more in images than in words will find it increasingly difficult to sustain any broad commitment to any truth, since truth is an abstraction requiring language.”
- Kenneth Myers
This makes absolutely no sense. Truth is neither an "abstraction", and nor does it require language. Rather, "truth", in the purest sense, is whatever appears to the mind. Therefore, truth can be conveyed through any medium, whether images, music, or words.
“The one thing television can't do is express ideas.... There is a danger in translating life into an image, and that is what television is doing. In doing it, it is falsifying life. Far from the camera's being an accurate recorder of what is going on, it is the exact opposite. It cannot convey reality nor does it even want to.”
- Malcolm Muggeridge

This is, again, completely nonsensical. It is the misuse of television and film that leads to delusions being propagated through them, in the same way as words propagate delusions if wrongly used(like in 90% of all books ever written). That whole idea about cameras not being able to portray "reality" is just hogwash.
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Cahoot
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Re: Steven Norquist - Audio lecture on his enlightenment pro

Post by Cahoot »

I know all about Idi.
I saw the movie. Once.

Gonna grow me a Che mustache.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images ... 74&s=music
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