Meditation for intelligence.

[user334]

First off all, I'm aware of the endless bullshit propagated by worthless wasters on this subject. This will contain none of that. Let's speculate for a moment on the possibility of one thinking to the point where they can conceptualize the activities of their mind, emotions, body, etc. Understood, these activities can be held in one's consciousness as one might the memory of a fucking banana, or a pen, a cog, whatever. In hand, they can be analyzed, inspected, and manipulated to suit one's will. That one can change themselves quickly, efficiently, and safely. Of course, this is all in the context of one's place in reality, common sense, morality, blah blah. This is simply the core of the conversation and starting point.

Now, does anyone here have some familiarity on the subject who would like to add to the conversation? I'd rather not rant at blank faces.

And to be perfectly clear, I'm interested in finding some company here. Having been able to talk anyone I've ever met under the table, including breaking people's faith in their religion and demolishing every person who prided themselves on their intelligence or the very complex nature of their evasive, immaterial personal philosophies, good company is hard for me to find.



--For the mod--

I recently attempted to post on a different account. User333. Login attempts show the account as nonexistent. I made this account and attempted to post this message as of Feb 26. Whether a random error or your own action, I'd like to know simply to decide whether or not to attempt reposting.

[Kevin Solway]

We've been overrun by spammers lately and a username like Userxxx looks a lot like a spam account, so that's why your account may have been accidentally removed.

[Cahoot]

First off all, I'm aware of the endless bullshit propagated by worthless wasters on this subject. This will contain none of that. Let's speculate for a moment on the possibility of one thinking to the point where they can conceptualize the activities of their mind, emotions, body, etc. Understood, these activities can be held in one's consciousness as one might the memory of a fucking banana, or a pen, a cog, whatever. In hand, they can be analyzed, inspected, and manipulated to suit one's will. That one can change themselves quickly, efficiently, and safely. Of course, this is all in the context of one's place in reality, common sense, morality, blah blah. This is simply the core of the conversation and starting point.

Now, does anyone here have some familiarity on the subject who would like to add to the conversation? I'd rather not rant at blank faces.

And to be perfectly clear, I'm interested in finding some company here. Having been able to talk anyone I've ever met under the table, including breaking people's faith in their religion and demolishing every person who prided themselves on their intelligence or the very complex nature of their evasive, immaterial personal philosophies, good company is hard for me to find.



--For the mod--

I recently attempted to post on a different account. User333. Login attempts show the account as nonexistent. I made this account and attempted to post this message as of Feb 26. Whether a random error or your own action, I'd like to know simply to decide whether or not to attempt reposting.

Yes, I have some familiarity. Among other things, I have practiced meditation for about forty years.

What is your familiarity?

[Blair]

good company is hard for me to find.

It's easy to see why that would be the case, though probably not for the reasons you have surmised.

[Homer]

Let's speculate for a moment on the possibility of one thinking to the point where they can conceptualize the activities of their mind, emotions, body, etc.

Neurology, Psychology, and the various medicines, have already conceptualized the activities or the nature of the mentioned entities. Maybe those disciplines got it right, maybe not, but they certainly have their concepts of mind, emotion, body, etc..

Meditation is contrary to concepts. Whenever I mediate, if I do it right, I become the object of my meditation. In that state of mind, there is no room for anything, but the raw experience. Hence, no concepts. Only later, I may construct a concept from my experience. But at that point I'm in a different state of mind... I'm not meditating, I'm reflecting.

In hand, they can be analyzed, inspected, and manipulated to suit one's will.

Whenever I analyze a concept, it is to evaluate it, to make a judgment regarding its truth. It is never to manipulate it to suit my will. Manipulating a concept to suit your will, especially a concept pertaining to oneself, is making truths as you go - a dangerous path.

[Cahoot]

I'd rather not rant at blank faces.

“Tolerably early in life I discovered that one of the unpardonable sins, in the eyes of most people, is for a man to go about unlabeled. The world regards such a person as the police do an unmuzzled dog.”
- Thomas Huxley
(labeler of the concept, “agnostic”)

[cousinbasil]

“Tolerably early in life I discovered that one of the unpardonable sins, in the eyes of most people, is for a man to go about unlabeled. The world regards such a person as the police do an unmuzzled dog.”
- Thomas Huxley
(labeler of the concept, “agnostic”)

This really hits home, cahoot. Because tolerably early in life, I decided to resist being labeled. To do this, I often had to ignore people's expectations of me and act in unexpected ways. The problem is, when one behaves this way, one finds oneself in situations which are largely unmotivated by any reasoning. If I thought such a course of living would be liberating, I was soon disabused of this idea. The expectations I was defying were placed there for my own benefit, which although I may have realized, my inexperience prevented me from fully comprehending. In other words, I "liberated" myself from some beneficial things.

To eschew being labeled leads directly to encountering difficulties interacting with many people, since most if not all people consciously or subconsciously label others. If you do not fit into a category, for instance, a prospective employer has trouble knowing how you might fill his needs. He is apt to pass you over in such a case. If one "goes about unlabeled," one makes other uncomfortable just because. It forces others to react this way: "If you are not this, and you are not that, then what are you?" In other words, it forces others to have to think, at least more than they would like to or are accustomed to. People - or things in general - with no ready label tend to arouse suspicion and provoke anxiety. If a man goes home and finds his wife in the company of another man, that other man had better have a label, such as doctor, electrician, or parish priest.

[Beingof1]

Labels allow for escapism of the stubborn thing called reality.

I notice the monumental contradictions in those that refuse to be labeled and project these categories on others.

[Cahoot]

Resistance is futile.

[Pam Seeback]

First off all, I'm aware of the endless bullshit propagated by worthless wasters on this subject. This will contain none of that. Let's speculate for a moment on the possibility of one thinking to the point where they can conceptualize the activities of their mind, emotions, body, etc. Understood, these activities can be held in one's consciousness as one might the memory of a fucking banana, or a pen, a cog, whatever. In hand, they can be analyzed, inspected, and manipulated to suit one's will. That one can change themselves quickly, efficiently, and safely. Of course, this is all in the context of one's place in reality, common sense, morality, blah blah. This is simply the core of the conversation and starting point.

Any man who has keenly honed their sense of self-survival knows how to conceptualize/manipulate the activities of their mind, emotions, body, etc., and to call forth this knowledge at will. From what I observe of the world, there are no shortage of occupants residing in this realm of the "superman", some moral by collective opinion, and some not.

I want a car, or a house or a thousand dollars. I want to heal people, I want to help people. It is true that an intelligent person of strong will, moral or otherwise, will find a way to manifest these wants.

Inquiring as to the nature of the wanting, however, now that is a whole different type of meditation. Different focus, different direction, different outcome.

[Blair]

I want to heal people, I want to help people. It is true that an intelligent person of strong will, moral or otherwise, will find a way to manifest these wants.

That shows just how crude and pitifully inadequate your comprehension of causality is.

You won't (and never have) manifested jack-shit. (and you aren't a truly intelligent or moral person anyway, you are a scum sucking dirt weasel using up space and sucking up air at my expense, so fuck off and die)

[m4tt_666]

you can't help people. good intentions yield horrible results all the time. nothing is controllable in a bigger sense. the human brain is hardwired from the beginning of its existence to produce order out of Universal chaos simply to survive. nothing more.

[Pam Seeback]

I want to heal people, I want to help people. It is true that an intelligent person of strong will, moral or otherwise, will find a way to manifest these wants.

That shows just how crude and pitifully inadequate your comprehension of causality is.

You won't (and never have) manifested jack-shit. (and you aren't a truly intelligent or moral person anyway, you are a scum sucking dirt weasel using up space and sucking up air at my expense, so fuck off and die)

Blair, I am willing to hear and debate your wisdom of causality. Bring it on.

[Pam Seeback]

you can't help people. good intentions yield horrible results all the time. nothing is controllable in a bigger sense. the human brain is hardwired from the beginning of its existence to produce order out of Universal chaos simply to survive. nothing more.

Matt, perhaps I did a poor job of communicating what I was trying to put forward, but I was not saying that I believe I can help people, I was saying that there are those who believe they can, those who believe that the peak of wisdom attainment is intelligent manipulation of thought, of wanting to achieve or possess something, which in the case of "helping", would be believed to be a moral achievement of a human ideal.

This is how I concluded my original post:

Inquiring as to the nature of the wanting, however, now that is a whole different type of meditation. Different focus, different direction, different outcome.

As for your view that the human brain is hardwired for survival, if you care to answer, I ask you to reason with me the cause of the human brain that wants to survive?

[m4tt_666]

i think, at the core, life itself wants to survive, not the body, nor the brain or any other physical characteristics of any conscious being. i can't pinpoint that spark in a literal sense, but we all know what it is because it's what we experience at any given moment. it's inescapable, until death, that is, but even this couldn't be known for sure. i mean, Socrates said, 'I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.' and i think that carries a lot more weight than most people can grasp.

[Pam Seeback]

i think, at the core, life itself wants to survive, not the body, nor the brain or any other physical characteristics of any conscious being. i can't pinpoint that spark in a literal sense, but we all know what it is because it's what we experience at any given moment. it's inescapable, until death, that is, but even this couldn't be known for sure. i mean, Socrates said, 'I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance.' and i think that carries a lot more weight than most people can grasp.

I would say that your thought that life wants to survive is a partial truth, one given by the intellect that interprets life from the wanting disposition of sense interpretation. But think on this question for moment: how can that which is and always has been, is without beginning, is without ending, is without sense awareness,want? If there are no subjects or objects seen or heard or touched or tasted or smelled, which is the reality of the core of which you speak, where can there be desire or craving for these things?