One and ninety-nine sheep

[Getoriks]

"The kingdom is like a shepherd who had hundred sheep. One of them, the biggest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and sought after the one till he found it. When he had laboured, he said to the sheep: I love thee more than the ninety-nine." - Jesus

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/othbooks/thomas.html

I do not believe I understand this one. Does kingdom mean wisdom?

And is it simply saying wisdom is the most precious thing a man can have?

(Not that it is something to "have", rather, it seems it is something to "be".)

And is it also saying wisdom can only be had if all else is "given up"?

[Animus]

Parables can have multiple meanings. I take this to mean a few things.

But first a bit of information about domestic sheep (Ovis aries):

Sheep are prey animals with a strong gregarious instinct, and a majority of sheep behaviors can be understood in these terms. The dominance hierarchy of Ovis aries and its natural inclination to follow a leader to new pastures were the pivotal factors in it being one of the first domesticated livestock species.[39] All sheep have a tendency to congregate close to other members of a flock, although this behavior varies with breed.[12] Farmers exploit this behavior to keep sheep together on unfenced pastures and to move them more easily. Shepherds may also use herding dogs in this effort, whose highly bred herding ability can assist in moving flocks. Sheep are also extremely food-oriented, and association of humans with regular feeding often results in sheep soliciting people for food.[40] Those who are moving sheep may exploit this behavior by leading sheep with buckets of feed, rather than forcing their movements with herding.[41][42]

For sheep, the primary defense mechanism is simply to flee from danger when their flight zone is crossed. Secondly, cornered sheep may charge or threaten to do so through hoof stamping and aggressive posture. This is particularly true for ewes with newborn lambs.[6]

In displaying flocking, sheep have a strong lead-follow tendency, and a leader often as not is simply the first sheep to move. However, sheep do establish a pecking order through physical displays of dominance. Dominant animals are inclined to be more aggressive with other sheep, and usually feed first at troughs.[44]

Sheep are frequently thought of as extremely unintelligent animals.[48] A sheep's herd mentality and quickness to flee and panic in the face of stress often make shepherding a difficult endeavor for the uninitiated. Despite these perceptions, a University of Illinois monograph on sheep found them to be just below pigs and on par with cattle in IQ,[6] and some sheep have shown problem-solving abilities; a flock in West Yorkshire, England allegedly found a way to get over cattle grids by rolling on their backs, although documentation of this has relied on anecdotal accounts.[49]

Sheep have good hearing, and are sensitive to noise when being handled.[12] Sheep have horizontal slit-shaped pupils, possessing excellent peripheral vision; with visual fields of approximately 270° to 320°, sheep can see behind themselves without turning their heads.[6][13] However, sheep have poor depth perception; shadows and dips in the ground may cause sheep to baulk. In general, sheep have a tendency to move out of the dark and into well-lit areas,[14] and prefer to move uphill when disturbed.

(Sheep. (2011, January 23). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 01:25, February 4, 2011, from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =409615748 )

In the parable the one sheep doesn't exhibit the behavior of sheep generally. The one sheep fails to move with the herd and had he been the dominant sheep perhaps the herd would have followed him. But the shepherd is the dominant sheep, nor did this sheep obey the shepherd. Here is a sheep who neither follows the herd mentality, nor the dictation of the shepherd, a free sheep, one who does his own thing. The parable could be interpreted as meaning the kingdom is like one who strays from the herd and authority into the fearful depths of their own near-sightedness in an attempt to find "Greener pastures".

The shepherd we might presume is a human who does not suffer from the same myopia and dependence on others that the sheep do (at least not the same degree). In that case the shepherd could know where the greenest pastures are, but still admire the stray sheep for its temerity. Suggesting that as a leader it is wise to view such strays as a cut above the herd in a way. Perhaps they would eventually understand and become new leaders. Whereas the mass of sheep are just herd animals incapable of truly leading. This and the last interpretation might be supported by the line "the kingdom is like a shepherd." rather than it reading "The kingdom is like a sheep."

The traditional interpretation of the canonical version of the scripture is that it pertains to work. It is taken to mean that there is value in hard work alone. This is because the shepherd is said to have "laboured" in finding the sheep and that is what he loved. However, he also says to the sheep "I love thee more than the ninety-nine." so did Jesus love the labour or the sheep?

[Animus]

So, I was told another interpretation by my girlfriend, the one that she had been taught as a little girl and the one common among her family. So perhaps it is a more baptist interpetation, where the labour interpretation is probably protestant. Her interpretation is as follows:

"God loves everyone even the stray sheep and will go out of his way to protect those whom he loves."

I didn't think this was correct because it ignores what the shepherd says to the sheep "I love you more than the ninety-nine."

But I can see how baptists came out with this exegesis, baptists are generally more oriented to the feel-good, lovey-dovey version of Jesus, while Protestants think work is the one true path to god and interpret it according to labour ethics.

My GF is rather convinced that the parable has nothing what-so-ever to do with the nature of Ovis aries or that there is any supposed quality in the sheep going astray. To her, it simply means "God loves me, even if I fuck up."

[Animus]

If that is the case though, the parable could read "The kingdom is like a child playing marbles; one of the marbles dropped from his hand and rolled away into a thick grass. The child searched and searched and upon finding the marble; he was pleased."

God loves all his marbles... and doesn't want to lose any...

A fifth interpretation could be just about the process of the human mind which tends to value that which it has lost more than that which it has, and also that the mind tends to put more value on that which it has worked hard for.

Lots of exegeses on this scripture.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Don't get hung up over the sheep. Same story in the same book is taught with coins : "...or what woman, if she had ten drachma coins, if she lost one drachma coin, wouldn't light a lamp, sweep the house, and seek diligently until she found it? When she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the drachma which I had lost.' Even so, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner repenting."

The idea could be that one tends to value that what is lost over that what is complete. Even God and his band of angels apparently. He must be craving Satan the most.

[Animus]

Don't get hung up over the sheep. Same story in the same book is taught with coins : "...or what woman, if she had ten drachma coins, if she lost one drachma coin, wouldn't light a lamp, sweep the house, and seek diligently until she found it? When she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the drachma which I had lost.' Even so, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner repenting."

The idea could be that one tends to value that what is lost over that what is complete. Even God and his band of angels apparently. He must be craving Satan the most.

That is true too, and in discussion with my GF last night we likened it to the Prodigal Son (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=NIV;).

Still there is something about the sheep or the prodigal son or the drachma going astray. Maybe its my own twisted exegesis, but the "independence" of the stray has value in it. That will be hard for me to prove and I guess I need to "prove" that Christianity in general is a push toward self-mastery and not slavery.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 3)

I want to make this point as well, the serpent in Gen 3 does NOT lie to Adam and Eve, he tells them the absolute truth, God does not want them to eat the fruit for exactly that reason, what the serpent fails to tell them is that it may not be in their best interest. But God himself restates exactly what the serpent said:

"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: "

"one of us" means one of the Elohim (Gods)

At this stage of the game man has no choice but to exercise his knowledge, but he must attain to a significant self-master, stray significantly enough from the herd, to herd himself back to God and to submission to God. Being that Men are inherently sinful, following a herd of sinning men cannot be God's ideal. Therefor, and again this may be my own desire poking through, I tend to interpret all these parables in such a way as there is actually more value in the stray sheep, drachum or son because of their degree of independence.

[Animus]

“ . . . here your will is upright, free, and whole,
and you would be in error not to heed
whatever your own impulse prompts you to:
lord of yourself I crown and mitre you.”
—Dante, The Purgatorio

Dante before entering Paradise, Virgil crowns and mitres him lord of himself. Dante is then led by Beatrice into the levels of Paradise and finally to God, Vigril cannot follow as he has been damned to Hell.

Code: Select all

Qui si convien lasciare ogni sospetto;                        Here all mistrust must be abandonded;
Ogni vilta convien che qui sia morta.                         And here must perish every craven thought.

[Cahoot]

Still there is something about the sheep or the prodigal son or the drachma going astray. Maybe its my own twisted exegesis, but the "independence" of the stray has value in it. That will be hard for me to prove and I guess I need to "prove" that Christianity in general is a push toward self-mastery and not slavery.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Do you think that this verse could be interpreted to read:
So God created man in man’s own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Blessed are the stories having more than one good way to be read, for they might inheret some truth!

Maybe its my own twisted exegesis, but the "independence" of the stray has value in it.

Sure, it sounds a lot like the well known thesis of the "hero's journey", a theme recurring in many myths and imagery throughout history. Strangely enough, the parables of Jesus do not mention a boon, just the rejoicing of a supposed home front.

Although, just rejoicing? What is this type of joy? From chairō, thriving, being well, greeting enthusiastically. Anyway, it's in scripture often a peculiar kind of happiness, reserved for profound events and insights. At least some are uplifted as a result, but would one ever really know the extent of the value?

[Animus]

Still there is something about the sheep or the prodigal son or the drachma going astray. Maybe its my own twisted exegesis, but the "independence" of the stray has value in it. That will be hard for me to prove and I guess I need to "prove" that Christianity in general is a push toward self-mastery and not slavery.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Do you think that this verse could be interpreted to read:
So God created man in man’s own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

No.

The previous line Genesis 1:26 is: "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:"

The "our" here is a reference to the Elohim (Gods) because in early Judaism Yahweh didn't exist, the name given to the Lord On High was El, and Elohim referred to the lesser "demigods". Actually, Judaism was an off-shoot of El worship which was all over the region. It didn't really become its own thing until Yahweh took the stage. Even that was probably caused by a misinterpretation of what El and the Elohim were supposed to be. El and Yahweh are probably essentially the same.

The "image" used here may better be translated as "shadow" or "reflection" if the Hebrew "tzelem" as used by the Jews is accurate. It may therefore be translated as:

So God created man in His own reflection, with a capital H to denote it being God's reflection.

I think this generally has a double meaning. On the one we were created to be like Gods, and on the other we were created within God so as not to be exactly like God but always subordinate to. And in the other sense we are given Logic and insight into the operation of God which makes us "reflect" God.

This could be stated secularly as being aware of a universe within which the sole fact of our awareness is also dependent, as if to be reflecting the universe back to itself.

[Anders Schlander]

The one sheep is the most important, because the kingdom is One. He has to abandon all the *things* to find the kingdom, which he does only when it is possible to love God more than the perceived concrete things of the world. That's why I think he talks about the 99 as opposed to the One sheep.

Imagine a shephard who loves his sheep and his wife highly, and cannot be without them, he depends on them, but he also loves his wife and each sheep, the security his sale of wool in the markets, and his wives comfort. etc. How could he ever abandon all this to look for God?

[Diebert van Rhijn]

One additional interesting psychological part of the prodigal son story is the reaction of the other son to the, in his eyes, lavish celebration for someone who more or less fucked up. This envy, this feeling of favouritism, of unjust, is a powerful theme and even hints at the Cain and Abel story, where Abel is murdered because of some unclear perceived favouritism. We grow up in a world where notions of fairness, equality and justice reign, but this story shocks by favouring the bold, the idiot and the obviously irresponsible careless, the eternal "fool", at least as far as he manages to survive long enough.

There's ultimately also a meta-physical core to this range of parables. The 'one' leaving the "fold", or a multitude, mass, whole of things, thereby finding a way back, appears to create value, perhaps is valuing in itself. Doesn't one care only truly after leaving? Meaning is found in this very departure; anti-thesis falling back into synthesis, in that process undoing itself naturally.

[cousinbasil]

Take one down, pass it around, one and ninety-eight sheep....

[Animus]

One additional interesting psychological part of the prodigal son story is the reaction of the other son to the, in his eyes, lavish celebration for someone who more or less fucked up. This envy, this feeling of favouritism, of unjust, is a powerful theme and even hints at the Cain and Abel story, where Abel is murdered because of some unclear perceived favouritism. We grow up in a world where notions of fairness, equality and justice reign, but this story shocks by favouring the bold, the idiot and the obviously irresponsible careless, the eternal "fool", at least as far as he manages to survive long enough.

There's ultimately also a meta-physical core to this range of parables. The 'one' leaving the "fold", or a multitude, mass, whole of things, thereby finding a way back, appears to create value, perhaps is valuing in itself. Doesn't one care only truly after leaving? Meaning is found in this very departure; anti-thesis falling back into synthesis, in that process undoing itself naturally.

Excellent description. I was wondering how to illustrate the thing learned from separating and then returning, and that is where I went the "Hero" route.