Hello Philosophers

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
User avatar
Matt Gregory
Posts: 1537
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:40 am
Location: United States

Hello Philosophers

Post by Matt Gregory »

I've been away for a few years going to school, so I haven't been doing any philosophy. I'm feeling guilty about it! I've realized that "use it or lose it" applies to knowledge too. You have to refresh your knowledge periodically or you're going to forget stuff. A lot of professors here have forgotten a lot of basic stuff because they don't practice it. So I'm posting here to try and motivate myself. I don't have any deep insights to share or anything. I was just posting here to say hi, I guess.
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

True. In my year without much internet access, much of what I grew skilled at here regressed. I've only been back a couple of months, if that, and dusted myself off a bit.

If you can think of something you'd like to debate me in The Crucible, I'd enjoy the exercise with someone else in the refresher course mode. You can pm me on topics if you like so we don't bore everyone with the pre-debate details.

Great to have you back Matt!
User avatar
Matt Gregory
Posts: 1537
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:40 am
Location: United States

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Matt Gregory »

Hi Elizabeth! Thanks! It's good to see you too. I'm actually probably not to be able to do anything real serious right now. I've got a hell of a lot of classes this semester, but I'm graduating in May and then I'm moving, but this summer I'll have some free time to mess around on here more.
Homer
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Homer »

Matt Gregory wrote:I've been away for a few years going to school, so I haven't been doing any philosophy. I'm feeling guilty about it!
Philosophy is the love of wisdom. And a true philosopher dies with that love - he never stops doing philosophy. You don't need books to do philosophy... a simple question, a simple wonder in the soul is more than sufficient.

Here is one: What's the source of my thoughts? I have them, but have no idea of their origin.

Here's another: Who am I?

Here's yet another: How can I be certain I'm not deceiving myself? That is, how can I know? What can I be certain of?
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Hello!

Have to agree with Homer here: were you here really for knowledge? The thing with pathways is when you start walking on one, you can only keep going. It's more about the way things are approached, not what you remember about them. Otherwise old age would undo all your gains again!
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Homer wrote:
Matt Gregory wrote:I've been away for a few years going to school, so I haven't been doing any philosophy. I'm feeling guilty about it!
Philosophy is the love of wisdom. And a true philosopher dies with that love - he never stops doing philosophy. You don't need books to do philosophy... a simple question, a simple wonder in the soul is more than sufficient.

Here is one: What's the source of my thoughts? I have them, but have no idea of their origin.

Here's another: Who am I?

Here's yet another: How can I be certain I'm not deceiving myself? That is, how can I know? What can I be certain of?
Hello Mr. 6 posts, and welcome to the board.

Really doing philosophy is not just throwing a bunch of old questions out there. It's actually a whole lot more than just reading about them, thinking about them, or even writing about them on your own. It is also the poking and prodding of the minds of other philosophers and your mind being poked and prodded by skilled others too. Actually the philosophical fencing should be verbal as well as written by posts in order to tone those mental muscles as well. Each mode should be strong.
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:The thing with pathways is when you start walking on one, you can only keep going.
@Matt though in other ways, taking a break from the board may have made me stronger at noticing how certain aspects of the brand of philosophy cultured here can get twisted in minds I once found admirable.

Diebert, You can go on a path, you can stop, you can go back and catch the stuff you stepped over your first time through, you can hop over to another path... there are lots of things that you can do. True, both Matt and I may have gone forward on the same paths as we were on before in some ways, though not so quickly nor so consciously as when we were actively working on it; but that is not the point.
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:It's more about the way things are approached
That will atrophy with disuse.
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:not what you remember about them. Otherwise old age would undo all your gains again!
Certain age-related conditions can also undo all of one's gains, as can certain processes of mental illness, nutritional deficiency, drug (even some prescriptions), alcohol, or other contaminant damage to the brain, or injury to the brain, but mostly it is disuse that is the culprit of lost skills.
User avatar
Matt Gregory
Posts: 1537
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:40 am
Location: United States

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Matt Gregory »

Homer wrote:
Matt Gregory wrote:I've been away for a few years going to school, so I haven't been doing any philosophy. I'm feeling guilty about it!
Philosophy is the love of wisdom. And a true philosopher dies with that love - he never stops doing philosophy. You don't need books to do philosophy... a simple question, a simple wonder in the soul is more than sufficient.

Here is one: What's the source of my thoughts? I have them, but have no idea of their origin.

Here's another: Who am I?

Here's yet another: How can I be certain I'm not deceiving myself? That is, how can I know? What can I be certain of?
I agree that a true philosopher loves truth and pursues truth continuously, but I have to admit that I'm not a true philosopher. I dabble in it, but I've grown older and am no longer able to muster up the passion for it that I once had.

Those are good questions! Good possibilities, anyway. It's important to ask the right question at the right time.
User avatar
Matt Gregory
Posts: 1537
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:40 am
Location: United States

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Matt Gregory »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Hello!

Have to agree with Homer here: were you here really for knowledge? The thing with pathways is when you start walking on one, you can only keep going. It's more about the way things are approached, not what you remember about them. Otherwise old age would undo all your gains again!
Hey Diebert! (how do you pronounce your name, anyway . . . always wondered) Good to see you're still around.

True, true. But I think knowledge is essential in allowing you to see more of the terrain around you, so you can set your course more accurately and confidently. I think it's far more of a help than a hindrance. But you're right, it shouldn't be an end in itself. Knowledge creates happiness and it's easy to get stuck in a complacent state of continuous studying and learning facts. But not learning anything isn't any better.
User avatar
Matt Gregory
Posts: 1537
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:40 am
Location: United States

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Matt Gregory »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:The thing with pathways is when you start walking on one, you can only keep going.
I guess I'm not really sure what you mean by this. You can start on some path and jump off pretty easily in my experience.
Homer
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Homer »

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Hello Mr. 6 posts, and welcome to the board.
Thanks
Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Really doing philosophy is not just throwing a bunch of old questions out there.
You are right. A properly trained parrot can utter such questions, and we wouldn't want to give such a parrot philosopher status.

My intent was not to throw a bunch of questions and claim "that's doing philosophy", but give an example of few questions one might seek to answer with persistence... with that burning desire to know... with that love for wisdom.
Elizabeth Isabelle wrote: It is also the poking and prodding of the minds of other philosophers and your mind being poked and prodded by skilled others too.
What you describe is "doing philosophy" in the academic sense. Ultimately, even if I poke or pick the minds of other philosophers I have to verify for myself that which I learned from them by picking and poking my own mind (so to speak). This latter act on my part is closer to the essence of philosophy or "doing philosophy".
User avatar
Blair
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:47 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Blair »

Homer wrote:[ and we wouldn't want to give such a parrot philosopher status.
And what status do you deserve, with your 7 posts and poorly chosen username.?
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote: You can go on a path, you can stop, you can go back and catch the stuff you stepped over your first time through, you can hop over to another path... there are lots of things that you can do.
Those are not paths, but hobbies and fashion, moods. Perhaps you haven't seriously went any path yet? Otherwise why even talk about hopping over as if you're on a bloody web page? A path is where you've bet your life on before the first turn is taken.
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:It's more about the way things are approached
That will atrophy with disuse.
Unless it's a way which has as essence anointment.
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Matt Gregory wrote:Hey Diebert! (how do you pronounce your name, anyway . . . always wondered) Good to see you're still around.
Good to see you too. The "ie" is pronounced "ee". But it might be tempting to make it into "die!" when frustrated with me. Or "Dilbert" haha.
But I think knowledge is essential in allowing you to see more of the terrain around you, so you can set your course more accurately and confidently.
True, the terrain is slowly, subtly, sometimes fast and obvious , changing - as are we. That way, the knowledge changes too. That's why I was thinking more about method, "way" in the sense of nature or attitude-perspective-approach. Although I do recognize the idea of being dormant, ones nature always develops further by affirming itself countless times a day.
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Matt Gregory wrote:
Diebert van Rhijn wrote:The thing with pathways is when you start walking on one, you can only keep going.
I guess I'm not really sure what you mean by this. You can start on some path and jump off pretty easily in my experience.
The paths I was referring to are a bit more serious. It's not always clear you are on one, or which one, as that awareness in my experience ripens with time. Some methods or approaches can be interchanged and jumped on and off, sure.
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
Elizabeth Isabelle wrote: You can go on a path, you can stop, you can go back and catch the stuff you stepped over your first time through, you can hop over to another path... there are lots of things that you can do.
Those are not paths, but hobbies and fashion, moods. Perhaps you haven't seriously went any path yet? Otherwise why even talk about hopping over as if you're on a bloody web page? A path is where you've bet your life on before the first turn is taken.
Quite simply put, you are wrong. You have stated your unfounded supposition as if it were fact, and thrown it in the faces of experience. Matt chose a different life path over philosophy and set the more time-consuming parts of philosophy aside until he was ready to come back. I had an unavoidable barrier that I had to get through. The results were the same - some degree of atrophy in the areas that fell into disuse.

If you want to know the truth for yourself, I challenge you to stay off of philosophy boards and out of philosophy discussions for one year. You may continue to read about philosophy out of books but not online, think about philosophy, and even write about philosophy so long as you do not share your writings with anyone for the duration of the year - and skip the youtube philosophy videos. If what you posit is true, you will continue to grow. If what Matt and I observed is true, although you will temporarily lose some ground in the areas mentioned, you will learn the truth, have a better understanding of how the human mind works, and still grow but in a different way.

Actually I think that it would do you some good to get away from the GF brand of philosophy for awhile. It may even give you a better perspective on what QRS are actually teaching.
User avatar
Matt Gregory
Posts: 1537
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:40 am
Location: United States

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Matt Gregory »

Blair wrote:
Homer wrote:[ and we wouldn't want to give such a parrot philosopher status.
And what status do you deserve, with your 7 posts and poorly chosen username.?
He makes more sense than most people here. Who cares what his post count is? This ain't a dick contest.
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Matt Gregory wrote:He makes more sense than most people here.
Oh? You have been gone a long time.
Homer wrote:
Matt Gregory wrote:I've been away for a few years going to school, so I haven't been doing any philosophy. I'm feeling guilty about it!
Philosophy is the love of wisdom. And a true philosopher dies with that love - he never stops doing philosophy. You don't need books to do philosophy... a simple question, a simple wonder in the soul is more than sufficient.

Here is one: What's the source of my thoughts? I have them, but have no idea of their origin.

Here's another: Who am I?

Here's yet another: How can I be certain I'm not deceiving myself? That is, how can I know? What can I be certain of?
I think that there are many who can do better than that post.
Matt Gregory wrote:Who cares what his post count is?
Although it isn't the definition of anything but post count, it is an indicator of how much experience a poster may have with the quality of philosophy expected on this forum. You may have forgotten that.
Matt Gregory wrote:This ain't a dick contest.
Some people might debate that point for this board too :p
Homer
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Homer »

Blair wrote:And what status do you deserve, with your 7 posts and poorly chosen username.?
I see the sharks don't take long to bite.

Why must I deserve a status? I seek none. Keep all the status for yourself. I'm happy with just discussions... philosophical or others.

I do philosophy to gain the understanding and clarity I seek... and thus I have no interest in status, debates, arguments, winning or anything else. I do philosophy in the same spirit I eat my breakfast... I do it for me.
Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Although it isn't the definition of anything but post count, it is an indicator of how much experience a poster may have with the quality of philosophy expected on this forum.
Good point. Yet, knowing what quality of philosophy is expected, and actually doing it (living up to to that quality) are not the same.

Most posts so far resemble bad kindergarten behavior than quality philosophy.
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Homer wrote:I do philosophy to gain the understanding and clarity I seek
That is the best reason.
Homer wrote:knowing what quality of philosophy is expected, and actually doing it (living up to to that quality) are not the same.

Most posts so far resemble bad kindergarten behavior than quality philosophy.
Most that you have seen here, I'm sure do. That is handled here by sending in the sharks. The top sharks have teeth of logic and reason. The bottom sharks have a hard time differentiating those real teeth for mere bloodlust.

I think that you'll get the hang of it.
User avatar
Blair
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:47 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Blair »

Homer wrote:Why must I deserve a status? I seek none.
Hubris.
Homer wrote:Keep all the status for yourself.
False humility.
Homer wrote:I'm happy with just discussions... philosophical or others.
The why cain't we all just get along shctick (don't forget to bat your eyelids..)
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Homer wrote: I do philosophy in the same spirit I eat my breakfast... I do it for me.
But if that breakfast doesn't grab you by the throat and nearly choke you, it's not worth eating.

Never mind the sharks, just use a bit of salt here and there! Keeps the snails in line.
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Quite simply put, you are wrong.
That's not putting it simple. It's just a meaningless statement reflecting your position with no explaining power at all.
You have stated your unfounded supposition as if it were fact, and thrown it in the faces of experience.
Expensive word: "supposition" but it's by definition something not ironclad with proof, making "unfounded supposition" a tautology, added to that a third repetition "as if it were fact", again: that's what suppositions are supposed to do, making some assumptions where not everything is properly defined or described yet. And with the idea of "throwing it in the faces of experience" you imply that my supposition is not based on any experience which is yet another opinion but this time not just unfounded, it's even beside the whole point.

Now we cut all the hot air away, you're saying that you disagree with my idea of a spiritual path, or a serious philosophical one (same thing to me) as something not be switched on and off at will or by the smallest of circumstance like a hobby, new job or TV channel. Your opinion and what appears like limited experience are noted.
If what you posit is true, you will continue to grow. If what Matt and I observed is true, although you will temporarily lose some ground in the areas mentioned, you will learn the truth, have a better understanding of how the human mind works, and still grow but in a different way.
You "both" (?) have observed squat and you sound like a complete idiot here for the simple reason such complexity as "growth" cannot be tested this way, any outcome open to so many interpretations. Even as a thought exercise it's useless.
Actually I think that it would do you some good to get away from the GF brand of philosophy for awhile. It may even give you a better perspective on what QRS are actually teaching.
Anyone still talking about "GF" brand and "QRS" needs a very long holiday as not to make a complete idiot out of herself.
Homer
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Homer »

Blair wrote:
Homer wrote:Why must I deserve a status? I seek none.
Hubris.
Homer wrote:Keep all the status for yourself.
False humility.
Homer wrote:I'm happy with just discussions... philosophical or others.
The why cain't we all just get along shctick (don't forget to bat your eyelids..)
Personal attacks and mockery... classic.
But if that breakfast doesn't grab you by the throat and nearly choke you, it's not worth eating.
Why isn't philosophy worth doing, if, metaphorically speaking, it doesn't choke the truth out of you?

Why is such a responsibility left to philosophy and not the philosopher?
cousinbasil
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Garment District

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by cousinbasil »

Diebert wrote:Now we cut all the hot air away, you're saying that you disagree with my idea of a spiritual path, or a serious philosophical one (same thing to me) as something not be switched on and off at will or by the smallest of circumstance like a hobby, new job or TV channel. Your opinion and what appears like limited experience are noted.
This is a good example of you being an asshole, Diebert. The ironic thing is in this very quote is the reason why you will keep coming back to being the asshole you are, and you can't even see it. And I mean this in a very compassionate way.
User avatar
Diebert van Rhijn
Posts: 6469
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Hello Philosophers

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Homer wrote:Why isn't philosophy worth doing, if, metaphorically speaking, it doesn't choke the truth out of you?
It can still be worth it as object of interest, game, hobby, profession or something to marvel at like a starry sky. But the ultimate worth lies within the sacred. And what's sacred is everything involving life and death, the intimately personal, all consuming, no matter how conscious one is of all that [what drives our existence, its quality and its worth].
Why is such a responsibility left to philosophy and not the philosopher?
There's only a philosophy when there's a philosopher. There's really not that much separation.
Locked