Tomas you may find this interesting
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:53 am
The following came from a conversation I had in, well you'll see when.
Sent: 6/27/2003 9:00 AM
Let's assume your name is Seph and let us see whether an apperception of what is the case is possible.
For that a good place to start is at the beginning, isn't it?
It's a different matter that there is no beginning, but let's take for the moment, the beginning of Seph to be,.. when a sperm raced to engage in a hip-hop with a coy ovum, .....succeeded .......and hey presto a unique DNA-gene template was formed.
That unique DNA-gene template, was a the end-result of the genetic contributions coming from both the sperm and the ovum and since the sperm and ovum themselves are the culmination of another hip-hop, at another point of time and that of another further back in time,......
..........I trust you can see that the body-mind complex, the psycho-somatic 3 D object, reading this post on his PC screen,.......
........is a culmination of eternity itself, .........expressed as "so".
Now this gene-template which was formed, just like a particular "wave" appears to be formed out of the Ocean (appears, not real),...........
...this gene-template, through a mysterious intelligence of it's own, of such mind-boggling proportions, (can you imagine the unimaginable complexity that is involved in making your nose to that precise shape it is, or the color of your eyes, or in the manufacture of that lovely shaped kidneys inside you, or to run the neurological system which allows you to read this post and maybe make some sense) ........
............through that mysterious Grace, the gene-template reaches fruitation and screaming, yelling it's spewed out.
The Big-Bang, in it's miniature form.
The gene-template, continues to grow psycho-somatically.
And during this nurturance stage, the gene-template continues to be impacted by conditioning-inputs from the external environ, which shape it, alter it, amend it, evolve it.
What are these impacting inputs?
Parental dictates from their own conditioning, ........prevailing environ in the home, ...
......experiences both in home and outside, both the "good" ones and the "horrible" ones, .....
.....education or lack of one, .....
....social/religious/spiritual/communal/nation ethos which was prevailing in the immediate environ in which the nurturing was taking place, ......
....influences by media, friends, accepted icons of authority/trust,..........etc etc etc.
Each and every one impacts that gene-template, even now continues to, to form what is the prevailing, intrinsic innate conditioning-in-the-moment.
Now this conditioning-in-the-moment is not something which is etched in stone, sometime in some Dark Ages.
The arriving input, alters the existing conditioning AND the fashioned response once again alters the conditioning, in the very process itself.
(You would have definitely had moments, when moved by the situation, something got done through Seph, which he would have never dreamed to be ever doing in the past)
It's like a dynamic loop.
A Yin-Yang dance.
That is why the term conditioning-in-the-moment, and not conditioning which connotes some static etchings in Dark Ages stone.
Which is what "runs" the psycho-somatic object.
By "runs it", I don't mean the biological functions which carry on quite irrespective of "you", but really the way Seph views the world, how he creates a mental image of the input that arrives from the world (i.e. an E mail, or a sexual assault), .........and how a response arises TO that self-created image of that input.
Remember Seph's response is never to the external input per se, but to Seph's created image of that input, both the creating and the responding, "fashioned" by the conditioning-in-the-moment.
BOTH.
Now, we have been using this convention of a "Seph", creating an image, responding etc etc, as if there is an independent self, apart from the body-mind complex.
There is nothing like "Seph" in the psycho-somatic apparatus know by society as "Seph".
Just a notion, which feels so real, so real, that it has "real" problems, "real" issues, ........it suffers, grieves, gets angry, screams at the injustice of "his" Life.
It is completely hilarious, but till the hilarity has bubbled up, ..........it's like a continuous sinking in deep shit.
So how does this notion appear to come about?
What you see around are conditioned responsive psycho-somatic objects, whether they are labeled "an interesting rock-piece", ..........."the Petunia Rose", ..........or an " orange assed orangutan" .......or a "human".
Psycho-somatic objects with varying attributes.
The real attribute which vary among all the species is the attribute of sentience, which is the ability to cognize an "other" separate to yourself and create a mental image of that "other",..... to be then responded to.
In the objects labeled "humans" sentience is at the relative maximum.
With that relatively maximum sentience, the human object, has further embedded flavours, which is the intellect, i.e. the ability to discriminate between all the cognized "others".
The discrimination of sentience itself which is also present to a limited extent in an animal, which can discriminate between a "friendly/safe" other and an "other" which poses danger/threat.
In the cognition of the other, and in the discrimination inter-alia all these "others", is born the sense of the cognizer-self.
The subject which observes it's objects of cognition.
Thus is the sense of the individual self, which is nothing but an identification with a particular biological body-mind object as a separated object from all other objects.......
AND
.......the identification to the name which that particular biological body-mind object carries.
(You Seph do not feed your sister's body-mind apparatus, when you note hunger pangs in "your" apparatus, do you?.........When her boyfriend calls for her by her name, you dont' respond, do you?)
This self, or this identification does not come at birth, but some time in the first 3 years.
Notice an infant, falling down, will cry "It hurts", not "I am hurt".
The sense of the self, has not yet appeared.
Now in this sense of the separated individual self, arrives another flavour, the sense of personal doership.
The sense which is made up of strands like...
It is me, which thinks, it is me which chooses/discerns/decides.
It is me, which acts on the decision made.
It is me, which succeeds with the action towards again a self-conceived objective/goal and hence me is joyous, the world is a beautiful expression of God Almighty.
It is me which fails with the action opposite that self-conceived objective/goal and Life/God/everybody sucks.
The concretization of these strands, makes up the "me".
Which is what suffers, elates, agonizes, is fearful, is insecure, is anxious, is insecure.
Now comes along all these spiritual Gurus who says, observe, witness, don't get attached, etc, without ever explaining what the hell they are talking about.
Impacting input--->created image by conditioning-in-the-moment-----> fashioned response,............is going on, in the moment.
Moment to moment to moment.
Whether you are ruddy "sage" or a "regular-at-the-corner-pub".
Observing this functioning,..... from behind a cocoon of an agenda of the "me" (made up by the thousands of "this should happen", "that should not happen") .........is being identified with the functioning.
For obviously with an agenda, you will either be,..... joyous in the moment and next moment you will be pissed of, .........one moment you see Life as a bed of roses, another moment that same Life is a cesspool filled with sexual deviants.
Sometimes, in a particular moment .........all of a sudden, .......non-volitionally, acasually,.....even this agenda "gets seen" for what it is,
This seeing is without an agenda,...........ie. there is no "Oh Shit, the existing agenda is bad,...Seph is such an horrible person for doing this, thinking this, lusting such,... etc etc........ or it is "good", I am on a spiritual seeking spree, why can't everybody see the surrounding halo, etc etc
Nothing of all that.
Just a gestalt of indifferent observing of the functioning,....... which is anyway happening through a psycho-somatic apparatus, through an instrument
AND
the indifference observing antics of the "me-Seph", with that functioning in the moment.
This gestalt of observing, which obviously a "me" cannot do,because there is no existing agenda......which happens sometimes, in the moment, ................when it is prevailing moment to moment to moment to moment,....
....is the witnessing gestalt.
Which also witnesses the functioning and the antics through the various cognized "other-apparatuses" around it,.... as it does the functioning through "it's" apparatus.
There is no difference between "one own's" apparatus and the apparatus of the neighbour.
And a click...............the apperception happens that it is the SAME impersonal functioning, which is running all objects, all apparatuses, whether it is the Milky Way or a struggling ant, ........whether it is a rock functioning in stillness, or the frenzy of the human object labeled "Seph".
Same, just like the electricty which runs through a revolving fan, a heating coil, the TV set, the refrigerator, the electric vibrator.
The same animating energy-in-vibration, which "runs" all these so uniquley different apparatuses.
And in the case of Totality, ...........apart from running them, .....is ALSO the very apparatuses, ...."so" expressed.
The objective expressions of the electricity,.......... is the vibrator and the refrigerator.
Now reading these squiggly signs on a PC screen,.........the me-Seph immediately jumps up and asks who is doing that witnessing in the witnessing gestalt.
All questions of a "who", only arise to a "me" .
The answer is extraordinary simple.
Use any term for the "who"
Bozo the Clown is as good a term as Consciousness.
Each manifest "object", whether a silly stone lying in the rain, or a struggling artist desperately anguishing to express THAT painting, .....
.....whether a clerk in an organization, or one which popular media has labeled as a "sage", ...
......whether a humping cat on a tin-roof or an exploding Super-Nova with the brilliance of a million suns...
.....each is a singing, ..............being uniquely sung.
You are not a person Seph.
There are no persons as static discrete events.
You are a "particular" process, getting enacted out.
There are no static discrete events.
There is a seamless "eventing", .........with infinte nuances, all of which mesh together in a fantastic harmony,......... to produce a symphony of infinite proportions.
And this seamless symphonic mosaic,........
.......AS-IF.
Sent: 6/27/2003 9:00 AM
Let's assume your name is Seph and let us see whether an apperception of what is the case is possible.
For that a good place to start is at the beginning, isn't it?
It's a different matter that there is no beginning, but let's take for the moment, the beginning of Seph to be,.. when a sperm raced to engage in a hip-hop with a coy ovum, .....succeeded .......and hey presto a unique DNA-gene template was formed.
That unique DNA-gene template, was a the end-result of the genetic contributions coming from both the sperm and the ovum and since the sperm and ovum themselves are the culmination of another hip-hop, at another point of time and that of another further back in time,......
..........I trust you can see that the body-mind complex, the psycho-somatic 3 D object, reading this post on his PC screen,.......
........is a culmination of eternity itself, .........expressed as "so".
Now this gene-template which was formed, just like a particular "wave" appears to be formed out of the Ocean (appears, not real),...........
...this gene-template, through a mysterious intelligence of it's own, of such mind-boggling proportions, (can you imagine the unimaginable complexity that is involved in making your nose to that precise shape it is, or the color of your eyes, or in the manufacture of that lovely shaped kidneys inside you, or to run the neurological system which allows you to read this post and maybe make some sense) ........
............through that mysterious Grace, the gene-template reaches fruitation and screaming, yelling it's spewed out.
The Big-Bang, in it's miniature form.
The gene-template, continues to grow psycho-somatically.
And during this nurturance stage, the gene-template continues to be impacted by conditioning-inputs from the external environ, which shape it, alter it, amend it, evolve it.
What are these impacting inputs?
Parental dictates from their own conditioning, ........prevailing environ in the home, ...
......experiences both in home and outside, both the "good" ones and the "horrible" ones, .....
.....education or lack of one, .....
....social/religious/spiritual/communal/nation ethos which was prevailing in the immediate environ in which the nurturing was taking place, ......
....influences by media, friends, accepted icons of authority/trust,..........etc etc etc.
Each and every one impacts that gene-template, even now continues to, to form what is the prevailing, intrinsic innate conditioning-in-the-moment.
Now this conditioning-in-the-moment is not something which is etched in stone, sometime in some Dark Ages.
The arriving input, alters the existing conditioning AND the fashioned response once again alters the conditioning, in the very process itself.
(You would have definitely had moments, when moved by the situation, something got done through Seph, which he would have never dreamed to be ever doing in the past)
It's like a dynamic loop.
A Yin-Yang dance.
That is why the term conditioning-in-the-moment, and not conditioning which connotes some static etchings in Dark Ages stone.
Which is what "runs" the psycho-somatic object.
By "runs it", I don't mean the biological functions which carry on quite irrespective of "you", but really the way Seph views the world, how he creates a mental image of the input that arrives from the world (i.e. an E mail, or a sexual assault), .........and how a response arises TO that self-created image of that input.
Remember Seph's response is never to the external input per se, but to Seph's created image of that input, both the creating and the responding, "fashioned" by the conditioning-in-the-moment.
BOTH.
Now, we have been using this convention of a "Seph", creating an image, responding etc etc, as if there is an independent self, apart from the body-mind complex.
There is nothing like "Seph" in the psycho-somatic apparatus know by society as "Seph".
Just a notion, which feels so real, so real, that it has "real" problems, "real" issues, ........it suffers, grieves, gets angry, screams at the injustice of "his" Life.
It is completely hilarious, but till the hilarity has bubbled up, ..........it's like a continuous sinking in deep shit.
So how does this notion appear to come about?
What you see around are conditioned responsive psycho-somatic objects, whether they are labeled "an interesting rock-piece", ..........."the Petunia Rose", ..........or an " orange assed orangutan" .......or a "human".
Psycho-somatic objects with varying attributes.
The real attribute which vary among all the species is the attribute of sentience, which is the ability to cognize an "other" separate to yourself and create a mental image of that "other",..... to be then responded to.
In the objects labeled "humans" sentience is at the relative maximum.
With that relatively maximum sentience, the human object, has further embedded flavours, which is the intellect, i.e. the ability to discriminate between all the cognized "others".
The discrimination of sentience itself which is also present to a limited extent in an animal, which can discriminate between a "friendly/safe" other and an "other" which poses danger/threat.
In the cognition of the other, and in the discrimination inter-alia all these "others", is born the sense of the cognizer-self.
The subject which observes it's objects of cognition.
Thus is the sense of the individual self, which is nothing but an identification with a particular biological body-mind object as a separated object from all other objects.......
AND
.......the identification to the name which that particular biological body-mind object carries.
(You Seph do not feed your sister's body-mind apparatus, when you note hunger pangs in "your" apparatus, do you?.........When her boyfriend calls for her by her name, you dont' respond, do you?)
This self, or this identification does not come at birth, but some time in the first 3 years.
Notice an infant, falling down, will cry "It hurts", not "I am hurt".
The sense of the self, has not yet appeared.
Now in this sense of the separated individual self, arrives another flavour, the sense of personal doership.
The sense which is made up of strands like...
It is me, which thinks, it is me which chooses/discerns/decides.
It is me, which acts on the decision made.
It is me, which succeeds with the action towards again a self-conceived objective/goal and hence me is joyous, the world is a beautiful expression of God Almighty.
It is me which fails with the action opposite that self-conceived objective/goal and Life/God/everybody sucks.
The concretization of these strands, makes up the "me".
Which is what suffers, elates, agonizes, is fearful, is insecure, is anxious, is insecure.
Now comes along all these spiritual Gurus who says, observe, witness, don't get attached, etc, without ever explaining what the hell they are talking about.
Impacting input--->created image by conditioning-in-the-moment-----> fashioned response,............is going on, in the moment.
Moment to moment to moment.
Whether you are ruddy "sage" or a "regular-at-the-corner-pub".
Observing this functioning,..... from behind a cocoon of an agenda of the "me" (made up by the thousands of "this should happen", "that should not happen") .........is being identified with the functioning.
For obviously with an agenda, you will either be,..... joyous in the moment and next moment you will be pissed of, .........one moment you see Life as a bed of roses, another moment that same Life is a cesspool filled with sexual deviants.
Sometimes, in a particular moment .........all of a sudden, .......non-volitionally, acasually,.....even this agenda "gets seen" for what it is,
This seeing is without an agenda,...........ie. there is no "Oh Shit, the existing agenda is bad,...Seph is such an horrible person for doing this, thinking this, lusting such,... etc etc........ or it is "good", I am on a spiritual seeking spree, why can't everybody see the surrounding halo, etc etc
Nothing of all that.
Just a gestalt of indifferent observing of the functioning,....... which is anyway happening through a psycho-somatic apparatus, through an instrument
AND
the indifference observing antics of the "me-Seph", with that functioning in the moment.
This gestalt of observing, which obviously a "me" cannot do,because there is no existing agenda......which happens sometimes, in the moment, ................when it is prevailing moment to moment to moment to moment,....
....is the witnessing gestalt.
Which also witnesses the functioning and the antics through the various cognized "other-apparatuses" around it,.... as it does the functioning through "it's" apparatus.
There is no difference between "one own's" apparatus and the apparatus of the neighbour.
And a click...............the apperception happens that it is the SAME impersonal functioning, which is running all objects, all apparatuses, whether it is the Milky Way or a struggling ant, ........whether it is a rock functioning in stillness, or the frenzy of the human object labeled "Seph".
Same, just like the electricty which runs through a revolving fan, a heating coil, the TV set, the refrigerator, the electric vibrator.
The same animating energy-in-vibration, which "runs" all these so uniquley different apparatuses.
And in the case of Totality, ...........apart from running them, .....is ALSO the very apparatuses, ...."so" expressed.
The objective expressions of the electricity,.......... is the vibrator and the refrigerator.
Now reading these squiggly signs on a PC screen,.........the me-Seph immediately jumps up and asks who is doing that witnessing in the witnessing gestalt.
All questions of a "who", only arise to a "me" .
The answer is extraordinary simple.
Use any term for the "who"
Bozo the Clown is as good a term as Consciousness.
Each manifest "object", whether a silly stone lying in the rain, or a struggling artist desperately anguishing to express THAT painting, .....
.....whether a clerk in an organization, or one which popular media has labeled as a "sage", ...
......whether a humping cat on a tin-roof or an exploding Super-Nova with the brilliance of a million suns...
.....each is a singing, ..............being uniquely sung.
You are not a person Seph.
There are no persons as static discrete events.
You are a "particular" process, getting enacted out.
There are no static discrete events.
There is a seamless "eventing", .........with infinte nuances, all of which mesh together in a fantastic harmony,......... to produce a symphony of infinite proportions.
And this seamless symphonic mosaic,........
.......AS-IF.