the unending pursuit

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Talking Ass
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Re: the unending pursuit

Post by Talking Ass »

Cathy, while I am not one to mope, still my feelings are likely to be hurt if you do not respond to my post. As you see I had a couple of humps to get over but I did.
fiat mihi
Cathy Preston
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Re: the unending pursuit

Post by Cathy Preston »

Talking Ass wrote:
Cathy writes: "Life is the belief in a self which is born and thus dies. I'd like to cure people of this false belief. It is a death, death of an imagined self who lives and dies and suffers in between. It makes all the difference in the world. In life we struggle to be free, with this understanding comes the realization that we were never bound. The wonder of it."
If it is a false belief, how is it false? So, in your view, the object is to die...and with this death one lives? From the way you talk about this I get the impression you are not dealing in metaphors. The experience you have is the experience you have lived?

Jeeze wasn't this conversation already dead? You accused me of not being serious, but I sense you're being intentionally thick. All form is illusory, because simply subject and object are one. Your next exercise is to meditate on emptiness.
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Talking Ass
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Re: the unending pursuit

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I prefer to think that it never came to life! But I am an optimist...

I often 'accuse' people who share the particular focus that is expressed by the practitioners of this form of neo-Buddhism as being too radically exclusive, to self-assuming (as to the veracity of their stance). But I do understand that motive and call it religious zeal. We were discussing 'the Master Key' remember? A giant fly swooped down on me but I think I thwarted it...
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Cathy Preston
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Re: the unending pursuit

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Talking Ass wrote:I prefer to think that it never came to life! But I am an optimist...

I often 'accuse' people who share the particular focus that is expressed by the practitioners of this form of neo-Buddhism as being too radically exclusive, to self-assuming (as to the veracity of their stance). But I do understand that motive and call it religious zeal. We were discussing 'the Master Key' remember? A giant fly swooped down on me but I think I thwarted it...


Ah the master key .... now we are talking in metaphor, No master, no key, no freedom. What is freedom to one that is never bound? Your true nature is never lost amidst delusion, so how can it be exclusive? It's always there waiting patiently. It's too bad you thwarted the fly, it was undoubtedly trying to knock some sense into you.
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Talking Ass
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Re: the unending pursuit

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Cathy, we operate from radically different positions, suppositions, preauppositions, conclusions, visions, desires and needs. Yours, to you (and others who also enjoy such views and find use for them), is the apex of all possibilities, the first and last realization, the central thing, no-thing, pre-thing, ultimate 'thing'...and that must be respected, I guess. After all, what do you imagine anyone might say to you in response? What could they say? Either one agrees with you and shares the process of 'working out the definitions' or one is (by the definitions you establish?) outside of true understanding. What an advantaged position to describe and defend! You win against anyone and everyone, against the past, the present and even the future. This unborn awareness that precedes everything! Pretty heady stuff! I think many of us have had such experiences, I know I have. I think that is why I mentioned the notion (in the Krishnamurti sense of 'trance' which I do not think you understood, nor would you even be able to consider it. He called certain samadhi states 'trance' and I suppose he would.mean that a person's normal mental state is also trance. A trance is a mental position, a way that perception is organized.
fiat mihi
Cathy Preston
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Location: Canada

Re: the unending pursuit

Post by Cathy Preston »

Talking Ass wrote:Cathy, we operate from radically different positions, suppositions, preauppositions, conclusions, visions, desires and needs. Yours, to you (and others who also enjoy such views and find use for them), is the apex of all possibilities, the first and last realization, the central thing, no-thing, pre-thing, ultimate 'thing'...and that must be respected, I guess. After all, what do you imagine anyone might say to you in response? What could they say? Either one agrees with you and shares the process of 'working out the definitions' or one is (by the definitions you establish?) outside of true understanding. What an advantaged position to describe and defend! You win against anyone and everyone, against the past, the present and even the future. This unborn awareness that precedes everything! Pretty heady stuff! I think many of us have had such experiences, I know I have. I think that is why I mentioned the notion (in the Krishnamurti sense of 'trance' which I do not think you understood, nor would you even be able to consider it. He called certain samadhi states 'trance' and I suppose he would.mean that a person's normal mental state is also trance. A trance is a mental position, a way that perception is organized.
You love complication, I'm all about the simple. There is no response required. the interest of someone may be piqued, one small bit may tug at someone to shake up their position, it's not my place to force feed anyone. Defense is required in football, not in this, I rarely feel threatened and never in conversation, yet you talk about winning too, I think an interesting question is why do you see me as an opponent? My position is not bolstered by adding bodies. It's wherever I'm at, it's as solid as the feet under my feet and sky above. I'm familiar with meditation in fact I recommend it, unfortunately lots of people get caught up in the proper technique, the proper position, and miss the point entirely. Samadhi is accessed by everyone with a good dreamless night's sleep. Your right, I really have no idea about Krishnamurti's sense of trance, since I'm not him. The word trance seems to be a catch all for experiences that defy conventional explanation. I've lived quite a few years, and have had my share of the unexplainable. They don't seem so mysterious now.
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Talking Ass
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Re: the unending pursuit

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Yes, but Cathy, the fervor and commitment that you demonstrate, which appears to come out of nowhere, or directly from your life lived, actually has roots in the past, and not in Buddhist traditions. This is one of the Talking Ass's® great discoveries. And while the religious awakening is valid and even powerful, we cannot be absolutely sure about the recommended actions (that is to say what we do with our ideas, sentiments and realizations) within the life we lead. At that point, I regret to inform you, it becomes quite a little bit more complex.
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Cathy Preston
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Re: the unending pursuit

Post by Cathy Preston »

Talking Ass wrote:Yes, but Cathy, the fervor and commitment that you demonstrate, which appears to come out of nowhere, or directly from your life lived, actually has roots in the past, and not in Buddhist traditions. This is one of the Talking Ass's® great discoveries. And while the religious awakening is valid and even powerful, we cannot be absolutely sure about the recommended actions (that is to say what we do with our ideas, sentiments and realizations) within the life we lead. At that point, I regret to inform you, it becomes quite a little bit more complex.

You can't be sure of your actions, that's why you're defending your position, and trying to win points, you live the life of Talking Ass by committee, the more people with the same view as you the more correct it is. David is pretentious, I'm immature, is your way to marginalize us so that our view doesn't threaten yours. Tell me Talking Ass is it logical to feel threatened by me?
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Talking Ass
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Re: the unending pursuit

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This post of yours I do not understand. It doesn't seem to follow from what I wrote. Isn't it interesting how far away we are from even a basic understanding? How do you think your view(s) threaten mine? If I wasn't threatened what do you imagine I'd do?
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