the unending pursuit

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

the unending pursuit

Postby Gurrb » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:35 am

i have greatly reduced my posting frequency on the forums as i have realized, well, have confirmed my inclination. in our pursuit of the ultimate truth, we miss out on the ultimate purpose. thought is inevitable, but thought as our only state is debilitating. the further we search, the further we are from achieving our truth. truth is infinite, we can only understand little of it, but will never understand it in its entirety.

realizing that everyone's perception of truth is different, as their truth is what they believe. i may be correct in my eyes, but not in their eyes. have i achieved correct knowledge--truth? for me i have, but i have not attained ultimate truth.

start digging your grave.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby David Quinn » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:11 am

Why do people always feel a need to uphold their own uncertainty as the final word for everyone?

Bad conscience? A loathing of the thought that they are missing out or being left behind? Whatever it is, there definitely seems to be a need for people these days to manufacture the fantasy that there is nothing to find.

In the past, the fantasy of God did the trick of killing off the pursuit of truth. Nowadays, the postmodernist belief in uncertainty performs the same service. The more things change, the more they stay the same .....

I too would be contemplating the digging of my grave, Gurrb, if rehashing standard postmodernist bilge is the best I can come up with. You're a clone of the times.

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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Gurrb » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:47 am

clone of the times? a lot of the unique ideas i have come up with have been 'rejected' or contradicted that of common philosophy. the idea of seeking and achieving the infinite is sheep-worthy, i do not wish to fall into this category. we are all followers of something, we all wish to be accepted by someone.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby David Quinn » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:15 am

Gurrb wrote:clone of the times? a lot of the unique ideas i have come up with have been 'rejected' or contradicted that of common philosophy.

Perhaps you could provide an example. So far, all I've seen from you is a rehash of the standard postmodernist belief system which dominates our times.

Are you even aware that you are doing this? A lot of kids these days absorb the culture of postmodernism unconsciously, by a process of osmosis - which is why they believe their rehashes are expressions of individuality, God bless 'em.


the idea of seeking and achieving the infinite is sheep-worthy, i do not wish to fall into this category. we are all followers of something, we all wish to be accepted by someone.

What I'm hearing from you is this:

"We are all sheep. Everyone is a sheep. Even comprehending truth is for sheep. But I don't want to be a sheep. So I will not set about comprehending truth, as it is for sheep. Instead, I have nestled within the postmodernist flock, which, for some reason, doesn't feel like being a sheep. At least if I don't think about it too much. Thinking is for sheep. We are all going to die anyway, just like sheep. Can I die soon?"

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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Nick Treklis » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:16 pm

David Quinn wrote:"We are all sheep. Everyone is a sheep. Even comprehending truth is for sheep. But I don't want to be a sheep. So I will not set about comprehending truth, as it is for sheep. Instead, I have nestled within the postmodernist flock, which, for some reason, doesn't feel like being a sheep. At least if I don't think about it too much. Thinking is for sheep. We are all going to die anyway, just like sheep. Can I die soon?"


lol
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Blair » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:38 pm

Gurrb wrote: in our pursuit of the ultimate truth, we miss out on the ultimate purpose. thought is inevitable, but thought as our only state is debilitating. the further we search, the further we are from achieving our truth. truth is infinite, we can only understand little of it, but will never understand it in its entirety.


That's your problem right there, the anthropomorphic lens. There is no "we" or "us" in the pursuit, there is only the I. The "I's" that get ultimate reality, speak basically the same language and can thus recognize each other.

When you can comprehend the simplest truth of all, A=A, then you know the ultimate truth. Every aspect of your (highly evolved but flawed) human~self is programmed, genetically, culturally and historically not to understand A=A.

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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby David_Vogan » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:58 pm

I would like to concur; I believe "1 + 1 =2" set the path for human's progression alongside with modern technology and science.


Lol..
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby movingalways » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:29 am

Gurrb wrote:i have greatly reduced my posting frequency on the forums as i have realized, well, have confirmed my inclination. in our pursuit of the ultimate truth, we miss out on the ultimate purpose. thought is inevitable, but thought as our only state is debilitating. the further we search, the further we are from achieving our truth. truth is infinite, we can only understand little of it, but will never understand it in its entirety.

realizing that everyone's perception of truth is different, as their truth is what they believe. i may be correct in my eyes, but not in their eyes. have i achieved correct knowledge--truth? for me i have, but i have not attained ultimate truth.

start digging your grave.


Thought is our only state, but it is not the comprehension of this truth that is debilitating, it is the comprehension of thought as being "the unending pursuit" that is debilitating. What is the nature of this sense of debilitation of 'always being in pursuit?' It is the circling of man in his belief that a logical cause or beginning of thought can be found. No such beginning shall ever be discovered, for how can there be a starting-point or ending-ending point to That Which Is, and Always Has Been?

Your statement "truth is infinite, we can understand little of it, but will will never understand it in its entirety" is only partially true. :) It is not truth that is infinite, for truth is but an idea, rather it is Thought that is infinite. And, being that Thought is infinite, you are that Thought of Infinity.

Man is lifted up out of his grave digging of pursuing his thought effects as if his effects can discover his cause the moment he puts the shovel of causal pursuit down. And putting it down (being still and knowing I am God/Life/Awareness) he comes to realize that he is not the master of thought, that he has never been the master of thought, rather, that he is the ever renewing, ever unfolding (infinite) servant of (pure awareness of) Thought.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Gurrb » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:10 am

4600 posts later, have you achieved the ultimate truth-- enlightenment? i believe not, or you wouldn't be wasting your time at a computer, or debating the idea of the infinite.

a man who understands the infinite is infinite.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Atum » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:35 am

What would you be doing? Leaping tall buildings in a single bound? Changing clothes in dirty old phonebooks? Saving the world from Solomon Grundy? You know, super-man never made any money.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Gurrb » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:43 pm

i feel like i have told a salesman that his product is useless and his ego is bruised. as a result, he attempts to belittle my intelligence whilst maintaining his obnoxious arrogance. then, along come the little followers who sniff out the power and side with those who possess it in an attempt to feel the power (even if it's just a little).

your ego will never be fully satisfied. tis insatiable my dear
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Dan Rowden » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:58 pm

Understand what your ego is.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Firefly » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:12 pm

Is there ultimate purpose? Isn't truth found and not achieved? Why will we never understand it in its entirety?

I cannot run with your assumptions here Gurrb. Let me try something else that might help your mood.

What is Truth? Does it break down into truths? Is it a principle, cause or effect? All three? Why? What is the value of Truth? Where does it come from? Why is it here? Must it be?

Here's what I've gathered..

What is Truth? A system for managing truths.

Does it break down into truths? Yes as every system is comprised of parts.

Is it a principle, cause or effect? Yes, it is all three in that it is a principle that is caused and creates effects.

Why? Just as true, false and mystery have no way to exist without one another so too the principle cannot exist without cause and effect.

What is the value of Truth? It is the foundation for sentient management of existence.

Where does it come from? Nature and is found in the structure of the brain. (needs verification)

Why is it here? To allow intelligence to guide survival.

Must it be? Yes.

How is it best used? I don't know. I have several theories based on many studies of Truth but I am stuck on a few paradoxes.. or was.. don't remember.. or I'm not sure.. ..life has been a harsh mistress.

What I'm running with is a form of Pan Critical Rationalism atm. I recommend you do the same in your state and beware the twisted definitions you will find of it on the web, you should be able to clean them for yourself. Once you find that your relative truths are absolute relative, things get easier.

Reminds me, infinity is finite by its own existence. Watch yourself. In the same manner, to name something "nothing" is to name 'something'. Two little blurps of wisdom I discovered myself that have been invaluable, hope you find them useful.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby ForbidenRea » Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:21 pm

David Quinn wrote:Why do people always feel a need to uphold their own uncertainty as the final word for everyone?

Bad conscience? A loathing of the thought that they are missing out or being left behind? Whatever it is, there definitely seems to be a need for people these days to manufacture the fantasy that there is nothing to find.

In the past, the fantasy of God did the trick of killing off the pursuit of truth. Nowadays, the postmodernist belief in uncertainty performs the same service. The more things change, the more they stay the same .....

I too would be contemplating the digging of my grave, Gurrb, if rehashing standard postmodernist bilge is the best I can come up with. You're a clone of the times.

-

I agree.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Gurrb » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:53 am

'i agree' woof woof, tell me more master
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Firefly » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:14 pm

David Quinn wrote:Why do people always feel a need to uphold their own uncertainty as the final word for everyone?


Because that uncertainty is the unanswered question they do not know how to form, not because they are incompetent but because they have no where to turn. Why don't you try answering the unspoken question instead of giving him a hard time? It's like your kicking someone when they are down.

Bad conscience? A loathing of the thought that they are missing out or being left behind? Whatever it is, there definitely seems to be a need for people these days to manufacture the fantasy that there is nothing to find.


Ouch, more like your trying to stomp on his nads.

In the past, the fantasy of God did the trick of killing off the pursuit of truth. Nowadays, the postmodernist belief in uncertainty performs the same service. The more things change, the more they stay the same .....


Here you stick your nose in the air and give him the finger.

I too would be contemplating the digging of my grave, Gurrb, if rehashing standard postmodernist bilge is the best I can come up with. You're a clone of the times.


And here you make a big loogie and spit in his face.

Please, help break down the necessary concepts for people, they mostly don't know better nor plot against you. 'Be the Buddha' if you will. Your not on this forum just to throw your ego around.

Hell, you should be better at this than I am, its been a few years since I cared about a forum.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Gurrb » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:57 pm

he can apply all the labels he wants, but my thoughts are my own. i create them myself. i don't just base what i believe and think on others' thoughts.

i come up with ideas on my own, and try to approach things with creativity. but i guess i can do what a lot of people on this forum do: summarize their favourite authors' point of views.

in that case, i think we live within a snowflake of a different world.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby David Quinn » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:51 pm

Firefly wrote:
David Quinn wrote:Why do people always feel a need to uphold their own uncertainty as the final word for everyone?

Because that uncertainty is the unanswered question they do not know how to form, not because they are incompetent but because they have no where to turn.

If that was really the case, I would respond differently. If a person is genuinely confused and uncertain of everything, then it means that he still values truth and is still looking for it. I would indeed try to help such a fellow. But with Gurrb, there is an arrogant streak to him which holds up his own uncertainty as the ultimate truth in life - for everyone. I've found through experience that you can't reason with a bloke like this, for he is essentially identical to a religious fanatic. He has already found his answer.

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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Liberty Sea » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:04 pm

David Quinn wrote:If that was really the case, I would respond differently. If a person is genuinely confused and uncertain of everything, then it means that he still values truth and is still looking for it. I would indeed try to help such a fellow. -

I have been such a fellow.
Not uncertain of 'everything', but still a lot of uncertainties.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Gurrb » Tue May 01, 2012 6:59 pm

David Quinn wrote:
Firefly wrote:
David Quinn wrote:Why do people always feel a need to uphold their own uncertainty as the final word for everyone?

Because that uncertainty is the unanswered question they do not know how to form, not because they are incompetent but because they have no where to turn.

If that was really the case, I would respond differently. If a person is genuinely confused and uncertain of everything, then it means that he still values truth and is still looking for it. I would indeed try to help such a fellow. But with Gurrb, there is an arrogant streak to him which holds up his own uncertainty as the ultimate truth in life - for everyone. I've found through experience that you can't reason with a bloke like this, for he is essentially identical to a religious fanatic. He has already found his answer.

-

the hypocrisy is baffling
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Dennis Mahar » Tue May 01, 2012 8:10 pm

you run a No case Gurb.
everyone knows running a No case is the easiest thing to do.
you can do it in your sleep.
runs on automatic.
what part of creativity did you misunderstand.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby ForbidenRea » Tue May 01, 2012 9:17 pm

Genetics took it's turn on us. haha.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Talking Ass » Tue May 01, 2012 10:13 pm

"Because they have no-where else to turn". (That is, within the limits that have been imposed on them and/or the limits they impose on themselves).

But it is always possible to break the cycle.

Yet 'arrogance' keeps us confined. We turn the lock ourselves.

"You can't get through to such a one because he is like a religious fanatic!"

He holds to his self-imposed limits.

Is this not the core of a vast array of our problems?

"The hypocricy baffles!"

"I have seen the enemy and he is us!" (Pogo, comic strip).
fiat mihi
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Gurrb » Wed May 02, 2012 8:20 am

i'm the person akin to a religious fanatic in my beliefs? you shoot down every idea that doesn't coincide with your ideas (in a rather spiteful manner). you use this forum more for relieving your suppressed anger than for the purposes you claim this forum encompasses. you need to try a new method for your enlightenment, because clearly this one is just causing you to be negative and hateful.
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Re: the unending pursuit

Postby Talking Ass » Wed May 02, 2012 11:50 am

I can see why you misunderstood my post, it was deliberately ambiguous. More than anything, it began as a commentary on David's unconscious hypocricy in his condemnation of you. What David said perfectly describes David, who cannot see himself. But then I extended it by use of the 'we'. We all have our pet 'world' of interpretation in which we live. We turn the locks ourselves. 'We've seen the enemy and the enemy is us'.

I am curious why you see me as 'hateful'? Where is this hate expressed?
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