Does the infinite Universe have a centre?

[Pincho Paxton]

The centre of the Universe is important, as it is where the Big Bang happened. In any 3D explosion there would be a centre of the expanding bubble. However, the centre of infinity is not so clear. I take a ruler, and I mark its centre, and now I can expand the ruler in both directions of its two ends, and the centre is always the same mark. That's easy. But it's not quite so clear when you include the word infinity. Personally I am quite happy to have a scale to the Universe, it has ends, but if you really want an infinite Universe, you need to think about the centre of infinity. A circle has no centre apart from the hole in the middle, the infinity sign like a number 8 has no centre. yet we need a starting point for the Universe in any theory. My own theory has an infinite membrane which creates a pressure towards its centre.. so again I am using the word centre. I do however have a solution...

Two forces, two armies, two colours, two opposites.. they struggle to get away from one another, their polarities push them apart. Even in an infinite Universe, they will be pushed extreme left, and extreme right as far as pressure will allow, but in groups. And as they gather together in bunches they are now crushing one another...

It's not a big bang however.. it's a multiple Big Bang, because there is no centre to infinity, and lots of these opposites are crushing into explosions all over the place.

[overlord223]

YES! the center of woman is our universe. It is where we begin.

[IJesusChrist]

You have a center in the guassian plane, yet it extends infinitely in all directions?

This is just an elementary perception of infinity... You can define the center where ever you want. If the big bang happened, and space is infinite, it is not necessary that it happened at the center, but you may call it the center.

Infinity isn't that hard to comprehend.

[Steven Coyle]

!

[Pincho Paxton]

You have a center in the guassian plane, yet it extends infinitely in all directions?

This is just an elementary perception of infinity... You can define the center where ever you want. If the big bang happened, and space is infinite, it is not necessary that it happened at the center, but you may call it the center.

Infinity isn't that hard to comprehend.

Then you allow a Big Bang to happen somewhere randomly without pressure, or without giving a reason for it to happen in a particular place. I don't think that's good enough. I prefer my example full of reasons for it to happen in a particular place or places.

[IJesusChrist]

You are dealing with infinity pincho - you cannot define a center for infinity. If you had an infinite plane, and said the "center" of the plane has a pressure scalar greater than others, wouldn't be possible.

There is no way to define the center, you cannot say equal distance from the 'end', nor can you define it as any other point.

If you had an infinite plane, and gave the center a pressure scalar, I honestly would have to say that the entire plane would then have to contain the exact same scalar.

You've hit an interesting subject in that given an infinite plane, and to define a center by perhaps, pressure = 2/(e^x-e^-x) where x = (x,y) in the z plane... Hmmm... I wonder if you could ever find the center? I don't see why one point could ever be favored over another point for the definition of 'center'

[Pincho Paxton]

You are dealing with infinity pincho - you cannot define a center for infinity. If you had an infinite plane, and said the "center" of the plane has a pressure scalar greater than others, wouldn't be possible.

There is no way to define the center, you cannot say equal distance from the 'end', nor can you define it as any other point.

If you had an infinite plane, and gave the center a pressure scalar, I honestly would have to say that the entire plane would then have to contain the exact same scalar.

You've hit an interesting subject in that given an infinite plane, and to define a center by perhaps, pressure = 2/(e^x-e^-x) where x = (x,y) in the z plane... Hmmm... I wonder if you could ever find the center? I don't see why one point could ever be favored over another point for the definition of 'center'

Well it's one of the things that bugs me about the Big Bang, although no map reference existed, there was still area.. how do you pick an area with no map reference? I like to start with a checker board of materials, then let them push apart to matching materials, but that's too symmetrical. Somehow from a perfect, infinite even plane you need to create Chaos. It can't be an even plane. if I have a niggle about the Big Bang then I like to fix the niggle.

[Tomas]

The centre of the Universe is important, as it is where the Big Bang happened. In any 3D explosion there would be a centre of the expanding bubble. However, the centre of infinity is not so clear. I take a ruler, and I mark its centre, and now I can expand the ruler in both directions of its two ends, and the centre is always the same mark. That's easy. But it's not quite so clear when you include the word infinity. Personally I am quite happy to have a scale to the Universe, it has ends, but if you really want an infinite Universe, you need to think about the centre of infinity. A circle has no centre apart from the hole in the middle, the infinity sign like a number 8 has no centre. yet we need a starting point for the Universe in any theory. My own theory has an infinite membrane which creates a pressure towards its centre.. so again I am using the word centre. I do however have a solution...

Two forces, two armies, two colours, two opposites.. they struggle to get away from one another, their polarities push them apart. Even in an infinite Universe, they will be pushed extreme left, and extreme right as far as pressure will allow, but in groups. And as they gather together in bunches they are now crushing one another...

It's not a big bang however.. it's a multiple Big Bang, because there is no centre to infinity, and lots of these opposites are crushing into explosions all over the place.

Pincho, it has been going on since before I entered this physical universe-of-a-body. I think it was you who said in another thread, loosely speaking, of course .. "I'll (we'll) find out when I (we) die."

The Big Bang for each of us occurred when our mom's egg and dad's sperm united. "Ergo"... I think, "therefore" I live.

unity .. wholeness .. completion = congratulations! - You're a member at Genius Forums! Now, make this trip (life) worth it.

You'll have plenty of time to sleep when you're dead.

[Pincho Paxton]

The centre of the Universe is important, as it is where the Big Bang happened. In any 3D explosion there would be a centre of the expanding bubble. However, the centre of infinity is not so clear. I take a ruler, and I mark its centre, and now I can expand the ruler in both directions of its two ends, and the centre is always the same mark. That's easy. But it's not quite so clear when you include the word infinity. Personally I am quite happy to have a scale to the Universe, it has ends, but if you really want an infinite Universe, you need to think about the centre of infinity. A circle has no centre apart from the hole in the middle, the infinity sign like a number 8 has no centre. yet we need a starting point for the Universe in any theory. My own theory has an infinite membrane which creates a pressure towards its centre.. so again I am using the word centre. I do however have a solution...

Two forces, two armies, two colours, two opposites.. they struggle to get away from one another, their polarities push them apart. Even in an infinite Universe, they will be pushed extreme left, and extreme right as far as pressure will allow, but in groups. And as they gather together in bunches they are now crushing one another...

It's not a big bang however.. it's a multiple Big Bang, because there is no centre to infinity, and lots of these opposites are crushing into explosions all over the place.

Pincho, it has been going on since before I entered this physical universe-of-a-body. I think it was you who said in another thread, loosely speaking, of course .. "I'll (we'll) find out when I (we) die."

The Big Bang for each of us occurred when our mom's egg and dad's sperm united. "Ergo"... I think, "therefore" I live.

unity .. wholeness .. completion = congratulations! - You're a member at Genius Forums! Now, make this trip (life) worth it.

You'll have plenty of time to sleep when you're dead.

But that reply just irrationalizes all conversation on the forums, and in itself doesn't actually say anything. Not only that, but it is a solvable problem anyway.

[Tomas]

But that reply just irrationalizes all conversation on the forums, and in itself doesn't actually say anything. Not only that, but it is a solvable problem anyway.

I understand, but how is anyone going to get to the bottom of a bottomless sea called outer space?

The Hubble telescope sees further than any other man-made contraption.

The "we'll find out when we're dead" still applies.

Circular clouds with doughnut holes in them are what Jesus* ascended into. A "cloud" is a biblical description for a "spacecraft". Ditto for the "cloud" that Moses had while trekking through the desert.

The center of the infinite Universe is the planet Earth. Got it? (Of course the white-Brits have the lowest IQ).

How Enoch (Enos) got outta Dodge is quite another story :-/

*Whether some dude existed that was able to get outta Dodge (Earth atmosphere) is subject to debate :-)

As you said in another thread .. "Best to wait till you die".

PS - You better have a chat (seance) with Buddha, Jesus, Jufa, Movingalways and Being of One .. they'll set ya straight ;-D

[IJesusChrist]

Tomas, were you the man they coated in lead paint?

Pincho, I'll have to think about that, but my previous answer still holds, and since I'm not going to get into pressure densities of an aether or vacuum, since I have no knowledge of it, we can define the center at any point, all points are equal.

I am still perplexed that the big bang happened at a singularity... it makes sense, until you ask for a beginning. ERR now my mind is uneasy

[Pincho Paxton]

Tomas, were you the man they coated in lead paint?

Pincho, I'll have to think about that, but my previous answer still holds, and since I'm not going to get into pressure densities of an aether or vacuum, since I have no knowledge of it, we can define the center at any point, all points are equal.

I am still perplexed that the big bang happened at a singularity... it makes sense, until you ask for a beginning. ERR now my mind is uneasy

Well forget about the centre for a moment. If the surrounding Universe was totally equal the universe would not have chaos. The Big Bang would be symetrical, the explosion would be a perfect circle, and your brother would look identical to you. Somehow you have to add different pressures to the open expansion that the Big Bang happened in.

[Jamesh]

Everything has a centre, as demonstrated by gravity, also there is the problem of entanglement. Entanglement, if true, implies that a "cause" travels from one point, throught or reflected from a "centre", to correspondingly alter another thing in an opposite manner.

So yes there is a centre of the universe. Trouble is that it is everywhere, its a non-spatially-based centre. It is Time in its non-relative originating state, not its relative state as we see in things.

[Steven Coyle]

"It's just him now, what?"

[IJesusChrist]

I'm looking at this from a mathematical sense, Jamesh. Entanglement really has nothing to do with the center of the universe...

It is odd though, still, that the big bang happened at a specific point. That it happened at all, if we consider time and space infinite before the big bang. If they were not infinite before the big bang, it would be much more easy to comprehend - the center was the only point, the only 0-dimensional place that existed. But, that means that there was a beginning to everything, which makes no sense.

Jesus, I think you've hit an iceberg pincho

[Steven Coyle]

1 to 3 to 2 matrix = 2/3's ("fractals")

what you enter once you cross the "gone" threshold

[Carl G]

Realize when you see a head of iceberg lettuce, over 90% is below the surface.

____________
1/2 in the bag

[Kelly Jones]

The centre of the Universe is important, as it is where the Big Bang happened. In any 3D explosion there would be a centre of the expanding bubble. However, the centre of infinity is not so clear. I take a ruler, and I mark its centre, and now I can expand the ruler in both directions of its two ends, and the centre is always the same mark. That's easy. But it's not quite so clear when you include the word infinity. Personally I am quite happy to have a scale to the Universe, it has ends, but if you really want an infinite Universe, you need to think about the centre of infinity. A circle has no centre apart from the hole in the middle, the infinity sign like a number 8 has no centre. yet we need a starting point for the Universe in any theory. My own theory has an infinite membrane which creates a pressure towards its centre.. so again I am using the word centre. I do however have a solution...

Two forces, two armies, two colours, two opposites.. they struggle to get away from one another, their polarities push them apart. Even in an infinite Universe, they will be pushed extreme left, and extreme right as far as pressure will allow, but in groups. And as they gather together in bunches they are now crushing one another...

It's not a big bang however.. it's a multiple Big Bang, because there is no centre to infinity, and lots of these opposites are crushing into explosions all over the place.

The Big Bang isn't the beginning of absolutely everything, just the known universe, and theoretically and literally there wasn't even an absolute beginning. So the idea that a centre is created by the resulting processes from the Big Bang pushing against each other with equal force on all sides is highly unlikely. For instance, what was happening for the Big Bang to Bang at all?

[chikoka]

Using ideas from another thread:

If two points in space are indistinguishable then they are the same point , so space and simmilarly time cannot have existed "before" the big bang.

Quote
----
The Big Bang would be symetrical, the explosion would be a perfect circle, and your brother would look identical to you. Somehow you have to add different pressures to the open expansion that the Big Bang happened in.
-----

If space and time are all that you are considering in computing you "symmetrical" then fine , but there could be a more complicated "line of reflection" giving rise to this apparent chaos.

[Pincho Paxton]

Using ideas from another thread:

If two points in space are indistinguishable then they are the same point , so space and simmilarly time cannot have existed "before" the big bang.

Quote
----
The Big Bang would be symetrical, the explosion would be a perfect circle, and your brother would look identical to you. Somehow you have to add different pressures to the open expansion that the Big Bang happened in.
-----

If space and time are all that you are considering in computing you "symmetrical" then fine , but there could be a more complicated "line of reflection" giving rise to this apparent chaos.

I thought about it all night, and didn't really get an answer. I got some questions...

Things seem to be in threes...

X,Y,Z
R,G,B

Earth seems to contain all of them, but other planets seem to be missing some like colours.

The colours of the Earth are spatially constant with other parts of nature...

Blue is expanse, and liquid.. green is flatter, and fabric-like, and red is vein-like.

If I used these structures to create the Universe I would have an expanse with veins, and flat areas, and pretty random mostly due to the veins. Dark Matter looks somewhat like veins, the blue sea area is somewhat like the Aether.. the green flat area is where things are pressed together..

If we used X,Y,Z and R,G,B together we could make bubbles that create all of these shapes just from being pressed together..

If you can get a random pattern however there is more to add, because that is logic. Figuring out what the logic is, is very difficult.

[Kelly Jones]

If two points in space are indistinguishable then they are the same point , so space and simmilarly time cannot have existed "before" the big bang.

The fact that there is a point means there is everything that is not that point. Hence space is there already for the point to be, and therefore time also. Time isn't an absolute, you know. It's created by relationships.

[Jamesh]

Time isn't an absolute, you know. It's created by relationships.

Nope, that is just what you assume, due to the fact we constantly measure time.

I consider it to be more rational to view Time as being an originating cause, the cause of causality, and measured time is simply the observed effect on the other side of the fence. The problem with causality as an originating entity is that it is entirely a dualistic process, so therefore it is something that arises from something else. Referring to this something else as the totality, is somewhat meaningless.

[Steven Coyle]

"Correct placement"

[chikoka]

The fact that there is a point means there is everything that is not that point

How do you figure that?
Since a blue unicorn is also "not that point" does it follow that it is?

Hence space is there already for the point to be, and therefore time also

Space is not made of points but intervals.

[Dan Rowden]

In what sense is an interval not a point? i.e. a differentiated state of affairs?