What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Locked
User avatar
Dan Rowden
Posts: 5739
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Dan Rowden »

Carmel,

You might want to look into Nancy Friday. She did some rather ground-breaking work through the decades on the issue of female sexual fantasy.
Atum
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:16 am

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Atum »

dejavu wrote:It's definitely out of place. And you've definitely proven to me you don't understand what rape is. You do not distinguish the difference between 'resistance' and 'not desiring'
I'm saying she does desire it.

I don't want to get pedantic but here is the definition of rape. You'll notice it's rather technical and doesn't include the word "desire."

rape
1  /reɪp/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [reyp] Show IPA noun, verb, raped, rap⋅ing.
–noun
1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3. statutory rape.
4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5. Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.

I don't want to "pile on" but you're not adding anything to the thread. Your posts are just saucy. They lack all sincerity.
Carmel

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Carmel »

Dan,

Thanks :), but I already wrote a post about her recently whereby I discussed both of her books. "The Secret Garden" and "Women on Top; How Real Life Has Changed Women's Sexual Fantasies". It's on page 11 of this thread.
User avatar
Dan Rowden
Posts: 5739
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Dan Rowden »

Meh. I didn't see that. Carry on.
Atum
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:16 am

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Atum »

Get lost.
User avatar
jupiviv
Posts: 2282
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 6:48 pm

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by jupiviv »

Carmel wrote:even if a woman has a "rape" fantasy, that she's in control of the fantasy, she IS the "rapist" and the "victim" in her imagination. She controls his every move, his appearance and characteristics, quite the opposite of what a real rape would entail.
Unless you are conscious you are not in control of anything.
No women want to be raped in real life.

They don't want to have sex which does not give her pleasure. Likewise, they want to be raped in a way that gives them pleasure. Women are not conscious enough to be selective about what gives them pleasure, so they accept anything pleasurable that comes their way.
User avatar
David Quinn
Posts: 5708
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by David Quinn »

Carmel wrote:Carmel:
To which studies are you referring? I'm not saying you're wrong, but it was difficult to find any conclusive information on this subject.

David:
A quick google search turns up plenty of material.

Carmel:
I did do a "quick google search" and found no studies that verified your specific claim. Besides, you made the claim, it's your responsibility to provide the source of the "studies".

I'm not interested enough in the subject to produce that kind of effort. I've been referencing stuff that I've read over the years, of which I have no record. I realize this won't satisfy you, but there it is.

Also, keep in mind that even if a woman has a "rape" fantasy, that she's in control of the fantasy, she IS the "rapist" and the "victim" in her imagination. She controls his every move, his appearance and characteristics, quite the opposite of what a real rape would entail. No women want to be raped in real life.
(The only possible exception to this might be a woman who is severely psychologically disturbed...? not sure, just speculating.)
What you say here is true enough. The key point here, though, is that the mentality underlying the rape fantasies spills over into real life, which is why women generally want men who are stronger than them and who are willing to take the initiative. They want rapists that they can control.

As for "...the courage and strength to seize her" ...I don't know, does this actually work with passive women? lol!
I can't speak for all women, but If I'm not already attracted to someone, his advances would be rejected no matter what he does.
No doubt. What do you find attractive in a man, may I ask?

-
User avatar
David Quinn
Posts: 5708
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by David Quinn »

Jason wrote:I was doing a bit of research into female rape fantasies and I came across this article:

Why Men Should Fear the Rape Fantasy

One of the things that I found interesting was the variety of reasons given to explain the fantasy. So far, on this forum, I've just heard it explained in terms of the old dominant/submissive theory, but check out these alternate explanations:
"When I was growing up, my parents really made me feel like my emotions made me unlovable," she says. The rape fantasy appeals to her because, she says, "it's like someone's angry or unhappy with you but still paying a lot of attention to you—as opposed to in real life, when, if you're acting unlovable, people just leave you alone."
The primary appeal for women, as Saltz sees it, is the concept that "someone would take them at all costs—the idea that 'I'm so unbelievably desirable that he just loses his mind.'"
"The common theme is that these women somehow feel bad about being sexual," says addiction specialist and radio host Dr. Drew Pinsky. "These fantasies give them license to say, 'I couldn't help myself—I was being raped' as an excuse."
You must have a very crude conception of dominance/submission dynamics, Jason, if you think these three examples represent an exception to them. To my mind, all three express these dynamics very clearly.

-
User avatar
Jason
Posts: 1312
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:02 am

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Jason »

David Quinn wrote:You must have a very crude conception of dominance/submission dynamics, Jason, if you think these three examples represent an exception to them.
Perhaps I do have a very crude conception of it, or perhaps it's that the dynamic has been very crudely expressed on this forum - and that crude expression is what I'm responding too. The quotes show a much more nuanced and variable psychological reality.
User avatar
David Quinn
Posts: 5708
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by David Quinn »

Jason wrote:
David Quinn wrote:Well, it's a kind of rule-of-thumb that can be applied flexibly. For example, very passive girls wouldn't need much aggressiveness or force to persuade them to have sex. A passive, but slightly more assertive, male could probably do the trick.
You realize that it's not rare for women, in certain environments and situations(like sex and alcohol-drenched nightclubs) to practically throw themselves at men? You make it sound like women are desireless shrinking-violets. Dancing in clubs these days is literally dry-sex.

I'm aware of all that as well. You must understand, and I'm sure you do, that sexual interplay is a complex business with a lot of competing forces in play, and that what I have been describing is just one strand, albeit an important one, within the overall fabric.

Regarding the club-environment where women throw themselves at men, we have to take into consideration that women behave very differently when drunk and carousing with groups of other women than they would when alone and sober. The usual anxieties which normally cause them to shy way from things like confrontation, taking the initiative, being judged, being morally exposed, etc, evaporate. Their animal desires, which lay underneath, are unleashed and come to the fore (and it's not a pretty sight).

But even in these situations, it is usually the stronger, more decadent male types that these women throw themselves at, not the wimps in the background.

I'd gamble that the most common "tactic" for young men who are trying to have sex with a woman are lies, combined with a slow escalation of sexual intentions and actions. In other words: he wants sex immediately, but he spins lies that allow him to create a slow and comforting/persuading build-up to the sexual act.

The slow buildup makes it more likely that the woman will agree to sex, it makes the intentions clear in a gradual fashion and by the time the first sexual act is attempted it leaves far less room for mistaken consent.
Agreed.

The image I'm getting from your words is of men randomly grabbing women out of nowhere.
Well, I've been speaking about a psychological reality which can be expressed in many different ways, not just in the crude and obvious way that you seem to be latching onto.

Jason wrote:
David Quinn wrote:I'm aware of the modern trend of having "fuck-buddies", which can be viewed as a practical arrangement between two equal parties, but I'm sure if you were to look into specific cases more closely, you would see the usual dynamics in play. After all, we are talking about a set of dynamics which has evolved over tens of thousands of years. They are not likely to be overturned within a generation by some bratty youths.
I actually wasn't thinking about fuck buddies in my last post, I was thinking more about one-night stands - because I imagine that these might be the situations more likely to blur the lines between rape and consentual sex.

As far as evolved dynamics and bratty youths - enculturation and conditioning are obviously very strong forces. If culture can subvert "natural" sexual inclinations to the degree that women wear burqas without question and men submit to having sex only with women who they are arrange-marriaged to, I think it is obvious that these so-called "dynamics" are not necessarily dominant drivers of cultured-peoples actions. Since the 60's sexual revolution, culture has become more sexually permissive and the "bratty youths" are simply now conditioned to act in these more sexually promiscuous ways - a bigger change for females it seems.

I don't know. I think it is all surface change, really. I read recently about how young girls these days (around 14-16) give blow jobs in the same easy manner that past generations gave kisses. Their promiscuity may have increased in that regard, but these girls are still the same as ever when it comes to their fantasies and their choice in men and what they desire from these men.

Women have been given "permission" to act in more sexually-overt ways, and being passive, they have flowed into it without any serious questioning on their part. Nothing ever changes in that regard.

Yes I think that there are still often aspects of these dynamics in play, but they generally don't express themselves in ways that blur the line between rape and consentual sex. Just think about this - how many men are accused of rape? I'm guessing not many. If it was such a "tricky area" as you claim, wouldn't you expect rape accusations to be very common?
If you believe the rape groups, a lot of rapes go unreported for a variety of reasons - e.g. the girl feels too threatened and anxious to go through the court proceedings; she might feel that she is at fault for the rape; she might feel she would look like an idiot for pursuing it; her family might talk her out of it, etc.

-
User avatar
David Quinn
Posts: 5708
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by David Quinn »

Jason wrote:
David Quinn wrote:You must have a very crude conception of dominance/submission dynamics, Jason, if you think these three examples represent an exception to them.
Perhaps I do have a very crude conception of it, or perhaps it's that the dynamic has been very crudely expressed on this forum - and that crude expression is what I'm responding too. The quotes show a much more nuanced and variable psychological reality.
Well, you know me. I like to boil things down to their essence, and then I expect people to use their intelligence to see how these essences apply in various situations.

Boiling down your three examples:
"When I was growing up, my parents really made me feel like my emotions made me unlovable," she says. The rape fantasy appeals to her because, she says, "it's like someone's angry or unhappy with you but still paying a lot of attention to you—as opposed to in real life, when, if you're acting unlovable, people just leave you alone."
Yes, the issue of being paid attention is a big one for women. When a woman isn't being paid attention, she feels as though she doesn't exist. This is an expression of a passive, submissive psychology which depends on others to give it security and a feeling of identity.

The primary appeal for women, as Saltz sees it, is the concept that "someone would take them at all costs—the idea that 'I'm so unbelievably desirable that he just loses his mind.'"

A classic expression of female sexuality, closely related to dressing in a feminine, sexual manner in order to turn men's heads. In both cases, the enjoyment lies in being so attractive that it disables man's minds. If she can't turn him into putty, then at least turning him into a raging animal that rapes her is better than nothing.

"The common theme is that these women somehow feel bad about being sexual," says addiction specialist and radio host Dr. Drew Pinsky. "These fantasies give them license to say, 'I couldn't help myself—I was being raped' as an excuse."
When a woman feels guilt, it is her fear of being judged by others which is at play. She is eager for any opportunity which promises to exempt her from being judged. It is classic submissive behaviour. Hence, the feminine joy of taking refuge in victimhood.

-
User avatar
Jason
Posts: 1312
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:02 am

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Jason »

David Quinn wrote:
The image I'm getting from your words is of men randomly grabbing women out of nowhere.
Well, I've been speaking about a psychological reality which can be expressed in many different ways, not just in the crude and obvious way that you seem to be latching onto.
You've been referring again and again to "rape", and saying things like "he could end up in jail" in your recent posts, and you think it would be mistaken for people to imagine that you were ever speaking of anything more than the psychological? Gimme a break.
User avatar
Jason
Posts: 1312
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:02 am

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Jason »

David Quinn wrote:A classic expression of female sexuality, closely related to dressing in a feminine, sexual manner in order to turn men's heads. In both cases, the enjoyment lies in being so attractive that it disables man's minds. If she can't turn him into putty, then at least turning him into a raging animal that rapes her is better than nothing.
That example could just as well be be viewed as a reverse of the dynamic that you perceive. She turns him into putty. That almost sounds like the work of engineer or scientist - reshaping reality to conform to their will. I think there's quite some subjectivity and latitude in deciding which side is dominant and which side is submissive. It reminds me of how some cultures define the moon as feminine and the sun as masculine - rather arbitrary.
User avatar
jupiviv
Posts: 2282
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 6:48 pm

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by jupiviv »

On women's sexual fantasies - I think their preference for "bad boys" and the like is proof enough that they like to be raped. Similarly, the romance novels that women read. Above all, the human race itself is proof of what kind of men women like to sleep with, and vice versa.

And I don't think anybody here quite understands that sex(and everything surrounding it) and rape are not different in terms of consciousness. The distinction between "acceptable" sex and rape cannot be consent.
Atum
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:16 am

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Atum »

In sum:

Women will transform themselves into anyone that men want in order to get attention and sex. Attention and sex are just energy transfers, sex is the biggest one where a man's soul is injected into a man. She is a clever parasite.

Since attention and "I" consciousness are closely related (the great the one the greater the other) you could say she feeds off it, his genius, his ego, his soul. The greater the "I" consciousness, she greater she manifests attraction.

Woman is lust. Specifically, the lust for life (male attention, sex, etc.) Lust explains why she can't think or stand back and consider or use logic, who in lust can?
Atum
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:16 am

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Atum »

To David, Kelly, or whomever:

What steps do you recommend to get a complete picture a woman? What have you yourself done?
pointexter
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:19 pm

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by pointexter »

Kunga wrote:...why ...be raped psychologically of ...mind in order ...to qualify as a good candidate for liberation ?
'Your Mind' is a prison. A database of self-referential separations from All. There is no liberation to be had there.

Mind must be violated in a sense, fundamentally from within, to gain access to Infinity (of thought). Or more particularly, to remove the obstacle (bounded thoughts) that interferes with an unencumbered view of where one already is.
User avatar
Kelly Jones
Posts: 2665
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:51 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Kelly Jones »

Atum.

A quick answer on how to get a complete picture of women:

Have an individualistic personality from childhood, that prefers to understand, explore and think things out oneself. Be lucky enough to have parents that don't interfere too much in one's life, apart from providing the essentials. From that basis, it is near inevitable that one will become a lover of thought, solitude, and self-awareness, by one's mid-teens.

Another important factor, which would be highly likely given the previous, is the choice not to engage in any sexual relationships until after turning twenty years of age, though in the mid-twenties or later is even better.

So even if one never met another human being after that, one would be able to form a very good understanding of feminine psychology (unless one just so happened never to have met any females, of course). One may not be able to imagine all the ways it might express itself, but the source of the behaviours is the psychology, so such an understanding would entail a complete picture of women in my view.

.
User avatar
Blair
Posts: 1527
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:47 pm

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Blair »

And who ever thought Kelly was a girl?

She's All Man Baby...
Jeannie
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:46 pm

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Jeannie »

Oh fuck!

You are all so fucki9ng hypocritical.

David just said if a woman doesn't get attention she becomes this "sooky lala" person...but when a man is rejected he is "humiliated" and sees the need to rape. You are all "dick" lickers (metaphorically speaking) as you twist ANYTHING around to favour "man"

Kelly

You don't know me from a piece of shit................yeah, I DON'T like my brother as he is. I am not interested in becoming one of "you" as you are fucking full of self serving, bias shit.

A male at work who thinks this site is absurd likes ties............so shove that up your asses.

The fact you lot angst about that more than an 82 year old woman being raped is beyond my comprehension. I "get" your thinking...I just find it repulsive.

I have swallowed my distaste for Dan's new "life" but he seems to think I don't get it. I fukkin DO get it...I just DON'T subscribe to it. I am OVER the arrogant brother, know it all, patronising crap, from ALL of my bros.

Go, seek enlightenment..I would rather be dead than be like you lot.
LOL LOL LOL...Just for you Dan...Pfffft I will rejoice in my perceived "ignorance" as that sits really well with me......
User avatar
Dan Rowden
Posts: 5739
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Dan Rowden »

Unfortunately you don't really get my viewpoints at all. I mean, you'd think I'd know that since they are in fact my viewpoints and I tend to recognise when they're not being understood. But, whatever; be content in your indignance, even if it's almost entirely a confabulation. It's clear you're getting more out of that feeling than you would from an actual desire to understand.

Your prerogative, as always.
User avatar
Tomas
Posts: 4328
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:15 am
Location: North Dakota

Is Jeannie a basket case?

Post by Tomas »

.
2385


-Jeannie-
Oh fuck!

-tomas-
Is that the best opener you have to offer?


-Jeannie continues rant-
You are all so fucking hypocritical.

-tomas-
Hey now, you dumb broad. Lighten up already!!


-Jeannie goes on about nothing-
David just said if a woman doesn't get attention she becomes this "sooky lala" person...
but when a man is rejected he is "humiliated" and sees the need to rape.

-tomas-
Why, I outta take you over my knee and paddle your b-hind right good.


-Jeannie recalls her teen years-
You are all "dick" lickers (metaphorically speaking) as
you twist ANYTHING around to favour "man".

-tomas-
Take a chill pill.


-Jeannie goes after a Genius Forum member-
Kelly, You don't know me from a piece of shit................yeah, I DON'T like my brother as he is.
I am not interested in becoming one of "you" as you are fucking full of self serving, bias shit.

-tomas-
Jeannie must be a high school dropout.


-Jeannie digresses-
A male at work who thinks this site is absurd likes ties............so shove that up your asses.

-tomas-
I've heard of string beads up the .. but a bow-tie?


-Jeannie outright lies-
The fact you lot angst about that more than an 82 year old woman being raped
is beyond my comprehension. I "get" your thinking...I just find it repulsive.

-tomas-
Hey, hey, hey! Nobody's calling for grandma's to be abused.


-Jeannie goes into orbit around Neptune-
I have swallowed my distaste for Dan's new "life" but he seems to think I don't get it. I fukkin DO get it...I just DON'T subscribe to it. I am OVER the arrogant brother, know it all, patronising crap, from ALL of my bros.

-tomas-
I hereby sentence you to live with Kevin Solway & Laird on Tasmania for 6 weeks.


-Jeannie tries to kick Dan in the crotch-
Go, seek enlightenment..I would rather be dead than be like you lot.
LOL LOL LOL...Just for you Dan...Pfffft I will rejoice in my perceived "ignorance" as that sits really well with me......

-tomas-
Something tells me Jeannie is a crackpot.
Don't run to your death
User avatar
Dan Rowden
Posts: 5739
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by Dan Rowden »

Actually she's a well meaning and decent person; she's just seems a little overtaken with angst at present.
User avatar
Tomas
Posts: 4328
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:15 am
Location: North Dakota

Jeannie's brotherly revenge

Post by Tomas »

Dan Rowden wrote:Actually she's a well meaning and decent person; she's just seems a little overtaken with angst at present.
Well then, writing well is the best revenge.

PS - Angst? That's a term more directed at (for) the teenage years..

I've also, a sister named Jeannie :-)
Don't run to your death
User avatar
David Quinn
Posts: 5708
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:56 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

Post by David Quinn »

Jeannie wrote: A male at work who thinks this site is absurd likes ties............so shove that up your asses.

I believe it's called "Stockholm Syndrome"......

-
Locked