What is the consciousness of a woman really like?

[Jeannie]

dejavu

Is that sarcasm? I won a competition once in sarcasm...didn't know whether to be proud or ashamed.

The interesting thing is...I have been "thinking" all my goddam life..as long as I can remember because I could not "resolve" in my mind why people treated each other so badly.

Much counseling and soul searching etc later, I have discovered what shit I HAVE to take.eg...work..and what shit I do NOT have to take.

Eg...the notion that "feminine" means nothing...yeah I get gobsmacked when women complain of sore feet after wearing high heels each day...............stupid!

However, they are NOT forcing me to do so, so why should I give a damn?

Men (and yes, sometimes women put up with their shit, no argument) who threaten to kill their spouse, a whole range of things that the law cannot protect, are strangled by their own emotions. We are HUMAN..we have emotions.............get used to it pmsl

[Jeannie]

Anyone who thinks "Woman" is the devil is, as far as I am concerned, no less than a slave to the Bible.

Fear is a strong force :)

[Jeannie]

You think I'm like them! Then I've truly paid the price for posting here! (This comment to be misconstrued as seduction of Jeannie)

Work? Yeah, people tell me all the time it's got to be done. Prejudice. They'd be scared shitless having only themselves to do. Suit and tie safety clause. Respect out the butthole.

Herman Melville wrote in Moby Dick: "In truth, a mature man who uses hair-oil, unless medicinally, that man has probably got a quoggy spot in him somewhere. As a general rule, he can't amount to much in his totality."

I

Is quoggy even a word? pmsl I have to admit, you need to speaka da English but I assume that "suits" mean nothing to you?

You know what? Many people have quoted many things according to their agenda................the Bible springs to mind, funnily enough.................I find it hilarious that the genius forum "picks" elements out and twists it to their agenda, similar to Religious entities.

Of course, they will deny this.........

[Alex T. Jacob]

Hi Jeannie,

You will find it hard to get to the bottom of it, but the anti-woman stance of Q-R-S (check out the Kevin's Mysogeny site) is almost a gimmick to bring people into their arguments. It is, partly, an attention-getting device and it works somewhat well. They denigrate women in order (it's in there somewhere) to present a kind of neo-feminist argument for the liberation of women.

At the same time they are repeating what has been a general assessment of women, a general definition of women, that begins in ancient Sumer and Baylon, was codified in the Laws of Manu (BC 1200), is expressed in Homer and Hesiod, by the Buddha, all the way down the Halls of History to Tertulian, St Isidor, St Bernard, Aquinas, Petrarch, Boccaccio, Erasmus, Martin Luther, Cervantes, Shakespeare, all the way over to Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Baudelaire, Tolstoy, Alexandre Dumas (son), Somerset Maugham, Jose Ortega y Gasset...

Sifted through carefully, there are some important bits of information. As with so many things here, it almost takes a research-project to sort through it all. As it is used here (the real key) it is more-or-less woman baiting. There was at one time on this board a group of Jew-baiters using pretty much the same tactic. The other use of it is to 'unite the boys'.

It appears to be a 'seductive doctrine' part of the function of which is to seduce. It produces a heady rush that seems to excite as it satisfies.

It would seem more mature, more realistic, the construct a platform of criticism of man (and the reproductive/romantic relationship) that is critical of certain behaviors of both men and women, but not to thrust the onus on 'woman'.

[Jeannie]

Hi Jeannie,

You will find it hard to get to the bottom of it, but the anti-woman stance of Q-R-S (check out the Kevin's Mysogeny site) is almost a gimmick to bring people into their arguments. It is, partly, an attention-getting device and it works somewhat well. They denigrate women in order (it's in there somewhere) to present a kind of neo-feminist argument for the liberation of women.

At the same time they are repeating what has been a general assessment of women, a general definition of women, that begins in ancient Sumer and Baylon, was codified in the Laws of Manu (BC 1200), is expressed in Homer and Hesiod, by the Buddha, all the way down the Halls of History to Tertulian, St Isidor, St Bernard, Aquinas, Petrarch, Boccaccio, Erasmus, Martin Luther, Cervantes, Shakespeare, all the way over to Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Baudelaire, Tolstoy, Alexandre Dumas (son), Somerset Maugham, Jose Ortega y Gasset...

Sifted through carefully, there are some important bits of information. As with so many things here, it almost takes a research-project to sort through it all. As it is used here (the real key) it is more-or-less woman baiting. There was at one time on this board a group of Jew-baiters using pretty much the same tactic. The other use of it is to 'unite the boys'.

It appears to be a 'seductive doctrine' part of the function of which is to seduce. It produces a heady rush that seems to excite as it satisfies.

It would seem more mature, more realistic, the construct a platform of criticism of man (and the reproductive/romantic relationship) that is critical of certain behaviors of both men and women, but not to thrust the onus on 'woman'.

Very interesting Alex

Of course, the Government has and is doing the "boys for jobs..or rather inventing airy fairy jobs that mean duck shit to the public which we are trying to serve LOL)

I find it interesting that women are perceived to be "ok" with the subordinate roles over the decades.

Witches were burnt, women were NOT allowed to educate themselves, women are seen as inferior in many tribal precincts. My experience with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people confirm this that in many instances women take a second seat.. However, many times the women get things going for a meeting etc

I do not accept the connection or comparison between "man" and "woman" as they both serve different purposes...........If one is SO opposed to "feminine" I would be looking at why, rather than putting shit on all and sundry. EG. If somebody is not pushing their femininity in your face, like, when i go into David Jones and there are multiple supplies of makeup etc I simply walk by.

Further, a man could brood over what type of suit he should wear to his own wedding. What the fuck does it matter what one wears? I agree, to a point.. however, why does it even concern you what the fuck they wear??

This is what i don't get. There are 100's of issues you could complain about, but you choose, what seems to me, to be superficial crap which one can easily ignore.

[Alex T. Jacob]

Some of what you just mentioned, I don't understand.

It is helpful to understand that, in another time perhaps, Quinn and others are the type of man that would have signed up in the monastary. They don't want any level of participation in 'society' and so they retreat from it. They have found ways not to have to work so they exist off of other people's labor. They don't seem to grasp that, seen from a certain viewpoint, they live like 'kept women'.

If you undertstand that they are interested in and defining a strict masculine path, for masculine purposes, and define masculinity as opposed to femininity (all that they want to surpass or get away from), it will help you to understand their position.

Jeannie wrote: "This is what i don't get. There are 100's of issues you could complain about, but you choose, what seems to me, to be superficial crap which one can easily ignore."

In a philosphy or 'spirituality' of a strict sort, one will find many things about society to take issue with---to oppose. A great part of this forum is involved in that. All that is lumped together under 'feminine' and 'woman'. They got locked into it and now they can't break out of it (these initial formulations). The criticisms are deeply relevant, and it is certainly possible to criticize the consumer-culture creation that is woman and that is man.

"I do not accept the connection or comparison between "man" and "woman" as they both serve different purposes..."

What purposes does man serve? What purpose woman?

[David Quinn]

Please don't construe me as being scared off David.........

To be honest, you make me sick to my stomach.......let me get a big burley bloke to fuck you up the arse and see how '"studied" you would like to be........ yep, take pride in your "emotionless" state...it is easier that way. hey? Thank goodness you are not prone to "serial killer" tendencies as I imagine such pricks have no emotion or conscience.

What if I had a hate for Philosophers and chose to stab you in the back? Would you want that studied? Is that an acceptable thing to do? Revenge? LOL! No, an INABILITY to resolve the EMOTION behind the past betrayal!

It is oh so easy to sit back and judge all and sundry but not even attempt to get involved in these great achievements by men. Why bang on about them and then say all these endeavours really do not amount to enlightenment.

Why do you mention them when your sole intent is to "think"? Even if a woman reached your lofty heights, you would find a reason to bag her.

Dan was really "indignant" when I mentioned the word "misogynist" but when I take umbridge with something it is dismissed.

I laugh at the fact Dan said to me once "I think you would like David". Nothing could be further from your "absolute truths" In fact I think I can say the fact I dislike David and his shit IS indeed an Absolute truth for me. I want my brother back...the one I used to stargaze with all night and listen to cool music.

I think MANY aspects of society are dillusional...but I focus on things such as violence, rape, pedos, unjustice, fucked up Politicians................things I consider important...

Not whether a woman attends a meeting with makeup...what about the man who wears a suit and tie? What is the difference...and quite frankly...why the fuck does it bother you so much, considering they are NOT dragging you by the scruff of the neck to join them?

And neither did I drag you by the scruff of the neck to join here, so perhaps you need to ask that last question of yourself, Jeannie.....

I'm obviously causing you some distress and it's leading you to react in ways which (I hope) are out of character. But you don't have to be here on this forum, or if you want to be here, you don't have to pay me any attention. You can put me on the ignore list, for example, or you can create your own threads which I'll stay out of.

Keep in mind that I'm a nobody who posts on an internet forum. It's just words. They don't have to have any impact on you if you don't want them to.

I'm sorry about your brother.

-

[David Quinn]

It is helpful to understand that, in another time perhaps, Quinn and others are the type of man that would have signed up in the monastary.

Not me. In the absence of a private income, I would have been a tramp, sleeping under the stars and travelling around the place.

-

[David Quinn]

I think the majority of rapes are date rapes performed by intoxicated college-age boys on slightly younger girls. Its not even really fair to use the word "rape" in most of these cases. Such a word seems to imply conscious forethought or derangement in the manner David described. Whereas, its probably a combination of sex-drive, lack of self-control, intoxication and a girl who's been taught to play the victim.

I still think revenge is the underlying theme in these cases as well. At the moment of transition from merely making advances to the girl (politely posing the question) to violently overcoming her resistance (obliterating her mind and personality), revenge is the decisive factor.

-

[Kunga]

if i was handed a pill that would end it all peacefully...i would take it.

[David Quinn]

I am too honest to score permanent benefits for myself,

I was able to score my permanent benefit through pure honesty, so there is no reason why you can't. Just tell them that you have no desire to work because you have more important things to do. If it rings true for them, they will help you out.

-

[Alex T. Jacob]

David wrote: "I would have been a tramp, sleeping under the stars and travelling around the place."

Have you ever done such a thing? For any length of time?

I could sort of imagine the Q-R-S hobo-camp.
_____________________________________________________

Deja-vu, I am of the opinion that part of 'masculinity' is accepting the responsibility of earning money, investing it, and supporting oneself. In my particular culture, of course, religious life, spiritual life, and livelihood are all part-and-parcel of ethics. Just as Q-R-S define a stance for independance of men intellectually and spiritually, I see a conflict or 'failing' that they don't do this economically.
_____________________________________________________

Does Jeannie know someone here? Who is her brother and what happened to him? (Alex roots around for 'ammunition'...)

_____________________________________________________

David wrote: "I was able to score my permanent benefit through pure honesty, so there is no reason why you can't. Just tell them that you have no desire to work because you have more important things to do. If it rings true for them, they will help you out."

Might work in Australia, but in 'The Land of the Free' they would LAUGH at you. (I assume Deja-vu is American).

[jupiviv]

You could argue that most if not all human actions have some un/sub-conscious element to them, not just sex. However, just like sex, these actions also have some degree of consciousness and intent associated with them, and thus allow conscious consent.

I would say that most/all human actions(depending upon the person) are unconscious. Only a rare few are conscious. One of them is not sex.

To me it means, amongst other things, being developed beyond the idiotic widespread sexual morals and mores(often originating from religion) that characterize sex as being inherently degrading.

"Widespread"...? If they were widespread, then how come the human race is 6 billion strong? How come 99% of people have had sex throughout human history? Far more accurate would be to say that the prevalent view for many years was that sex should be controlled and restricted within marriage. The reason for this was probably that sex is entirely an animal act, and people didn't want it to be too free.

You said that women enjoy being degraded in "normal sex", and I'm telling you that there are women(and men) who both enjoy sex and yet experience no degradation in it.

I don't care about how people feel about sex. Sex is basically the destruction of two units to create a new unit. In it, the bodies of two people are used merely as the means to an unconscious end(pleasure or reproduction.) However, sex can be a wholly rational act(but not amongst humans with our present biology), as can murder, rape, oppression or anything else in the universe.

[jupiviv]

I think the majority of rapes are date rapes performed by intoxicated college-age boys on slightly younger girls. Its not even really fair to use the word "rape" in most of these cases. Such a word seems to imply conscious forethought or derangement in the manner David described. Whereas, its probably a combination of sex-drive, lack of self-control, intoxication and a girl who's been taught to play the victim.

I still think revenge is the underlying theme in these cases as well. At the moment of transition from merely making advances to the girl (politely posing the question) to violently overcoming her resistance (obliterating her mind and personality), revenge is the decisive factor.

-

I'm not sure why you're using the word "revenge". If rapes are considered to be revenges, then even a normal seduction can be termed as a revenge on the woman. I think violence would be a better word.

[A.R]

-Thanks tomus...maybe you're the one who's undestand me.
-No it’s just questions ….and about learning english ...it's not the one goal.
I joined in and I've alot of goals such as:* know more information
*Understand the Foreign and learn how to speek with them and thier nature.
*Make friendship with different people...etc.

[Dan Rowden]

Dan was really "indignant" when I mentioned the word "misogynist" but when I take umbridge with something it is dismissed.

Lies tend to make me indignant. Must be my Libran sense of justice.

I want my brother back...the one I used to stargaze with all night and listen to cool music.

Pah. I'm still here, I just have more important priorities and interests. Clearly, your whole attitude is based around some sort of perceived loss on your part. Funny that you can't recognise that you've actually gained a brother with an immensely better grasp of the realities of the world. You're just stuck in a distorted perception of that understanding.

I think MANY aspects of society are dillusional...but I focus on things such as violence, rape, pedos, unjustice, fucked up Politicians................things I consider important...

Yes, and we focus on the underlying realities that make people that way. How is that not even more important? That is the source of any possible genuine solution.

Not whether a woman attends a meeting with makeup...what about the man who wears a suit and tie? What is the difference...

There isn't much difference, but actually the guy in the suit and tie is worse.

...and quite frankly...why the fuck does it bother you so much, considering they are NOT dragging you by the scruff of the neck to join them?

Well, actually, they sort of do, but the reason it's important is because of the underlying mentality. Have you no sense whatever of the damage that unconscious herdliness does?

[Dan Rowden]

Does Jeannie know someone here? Who is her brother and what happened to him? (Alex roots around for 'ammunition'...)

Not a very close reader, are you, Alex? :)

Jeannie is my sister. She seems to feel I died somewhere along the way rather than evolved into the person that I always really was. The power of attachment and all that. You know the drill.

[Steven Coyle]

Jeannie needs a Winnie!

[David Quinn]

David wrote: "I would have been a tramp, sleeping under the stars and travelling around the place."

Have you ever done such a thing? For any length of time?

I could sort of imagine the Q-R-S hobo-camp.

I love the way you keep wanting to herd us together. No, I haven't done much tramping, not in the raw sense. I did seriously look into it while I was going through the process of securing my benefit, as the approach I was taking was a gamble and my only fall back position was life on the streets. Even now, I could be on the streets at a moment's notice, if they ever decide to withdraw my benefit.

Might work in Australia, but in 'The Land of the Free' they would LAUGH at you. (I assume Deja-vu is American).

Pretty sure he's an Aussie. I can understand your assumption, though. I tend to assume everyone who comes here is an American, until proven otherwise.

-

[David Quinn]

Not whether a woman attends a meeting with makeup...what about the man who wears a suit and tie? What is the difference...

There isn't much difference, but actually the guy in the suit and tie is worse.

The tie is a symbol of slavery, a lasso around his neck.

-

[David Quinn]

I think the majority of rapes are date rapes performed by intoxicated college-age boys on slightly younger girls. Its not even really fair to use the word "rape" in most of these cases. Such a word seems to imply conscious forethought or derangement in the manner David described. Whereas, its probably a combination of sex-drive, lack of self-control, intoxication and a girl who's been taught to play the victim.

I still think revenge is the underlying theme in these cases as well. At the moment of transition from merely making advances to the girl (politely posing the question) to violently overcoming her resistance (obliterating her mind and personality), revenge is the decisive factor.

I'm not sure why you're using the word "revenge". If rapes are considered to be revenges, then even a normal seduction can be termed as a revenge on the woman. I think violence would be a better word.

It looks like I'll have to call in Captain Subtext. From the point of the view of the male:

Man makes advances upon woman. (Hi, I'm a great guy and I want to have sex with you.)

Woman says no. (Hmm, did you say something? For some reason, I am too blind to see what a great opportunity you are presenting to me. My mind is probably elsewhere.)

Man presses his claims further. ( Hey, look at me. I'm fantastic. I'm an alpha-male. I'm handsome. I'm a stud. I have money and a cheeky personality. Give me a chance and I will rock your socks off, baby.)

Woman says no more firmly. (Get away from me. You're a creep. You disgust me. You smell. Even if you were the last man alive, I still wouldn't have sex with you. Go away and do not speak to me ever again.)

Humiliated, man crosses the line and violently tries to take her. (No subtext needed)

-

[David Quinn]

-Thanks tomus...maybe you're the one who's undestand me.
-No it’s just questions ….and about learning english ...it's not the one goal.
I joined in and I've alot of goals such as:* know more information
*Understand the Foreign and learn how to speek with them and thier nature.
*Make friendship with different people...etc.

In that spirit, then, I'm curious to know what's it like living in the UAE. As a young woman there, do you feel that you are able to live freely?

-

[jupiviv]

Man makes advances upon woman. (Hi, I'm a great guy and I want to have sex with you.)

Woman says no. (Hmm, did you say something? For some reason, I am too blind to see what a great opportunity you are presenting to me. My mind is probably elsewhere.)

Man presses his claims further. ( Hey, look at me. I'm fantastic. I'm an alpha-male. I'm handsome. I'm a stud. I have money and a cheeky personality. Give me a chance and I will rock your socks off, baby.)

Woman says no more firmly. (Get away from me. You're a creep. You disgust me. You smell. Even if you were the last man alive, I still wouldn't have sex with you. Go away and do not speak to me ever again.)

Humiliated, man crosses the line and violently tries to take her. (No subtext needed)

I still don't see how that is revenge.

The last line could also be:

Man starts kissing the woman on the spot, and the woman responds positively. (I've got genes that will enable my son to do the same with other women, thus expanding both our genetic empires.)

The same as above, except the woman doesn't respond positively.(I'm a woman of character. I prefer a man with more provider-type genes, who will hold the fort instead of going to war all the time.)

Man produces something that is worth a lot of money.(A lot of money secures both our genes considerably.)

And so on. The difference between rape and "consensual" sex is the difference between uncontrolled and controlled violence.

[Kelly Jones]

i just want to add..it is more tolerable(for me anyways) to have a woman (Kelly)...expose the downside of femininity than having a man do it. Why is that ? I think because i respect women more as they have experienced being a woman and KNOW from EXPERIENCE what they are talking about. A man just wants to overpower and dominate woman...and i loathe men that love repressing women thinking they are superior. It is especially repulsive to see some people here that think they are intelligently superior to others....based only on what is posted here, not knowing the real truth and dynamics in peoples lives. There is more to intelligence than being rational and logical...the feminine and masculine traits need to work in harmony in a persons life. If all women & men had their femininity knocked out of them something would get unbalanced i would think.

Knowing myself ...when i am judged as being overly feminine...my eyes roll in unbeliefe as you have no idea what i do in my daily life...my writing here is only a fraction of what i do . My anger when the feminine is downplayed as inferior stems also from it sounding like a fucking lie and to me is not truth.

Is a flower feminine ?
Is the moon feminine ?
a butterfly feminine?

If this Universe was all masculine it would be ugly as shit.

Long Live Femininity !!!!!

Without it...THERE IS NO MASCULINITY !!!!


_/\_

You are wrong, here, Kunga. The belief that women understand women better than men, and are therefore more qualified to speak of the feminine mind, is undermined by the fact that the feminine mind cannot analyse or understand anything owing to its lack of consciousness. It is impossible for unconsciousness to identify unconsciousness.

It's very similar to psychiatric patients, who cannot accept they're ill, because they have no consciousness of what it means to be healthy - for the reason that they're not conscious enough to judge. Literally, not conscious enough. For instance, I know a fellow who thought he didn't have a psychiatric illness, because it literally turned him into a vegetable. He wasn't aware of anything, let alone being ill. When his brain was electro-shocked to jump out of its unawareness, he suddenly announced he had no illness because he had no memory of an illness.

It's just like this. The patients (most women) are demonstrably feminine-minded and unconscious. They don't know what feminine-mindedness is. They're not qualified to speak of it. This is not about men trying to enforce a system of oppression and mind-control over women; it really has little to do with women. For the most part, the examination of feminine consciousness is about helping those who are struggling to become fully conscious (most men and the extremely rare masculine woman) to deal with their own blockages and attachments to unconsciousness.

For women to get angry about this truth-telling, only serves to point out the flaws of feminine-consciousness. It's not men's fault. But women don't realise how much they're helping men to abandon any love of the feminine, when they behave so selfishly and foolishly.

[Kelly Jones]

Jeannie, you say you're more interested in important matters like politics, and the like.

But then, what use is political interest if it has no influence beyond oneself? Therefore, you must have thought about the cause and effect of the ideas / memes that are spread around society. You must be interested in what sorts of values are the cause of certain kinds of behaviours.

For instance, what sorts of values have been running about so wildly - like global viruses - to make shopping centres house multiple stores selling the same thing: "multiple supplies of makeup", fashions worn for a few weeks or months then discarded, or fashionable homeware or sentimental giftware?

Why is it that our economies don't run on environmentally sustainable or intelligence-promoting values?

It may seem that an investigation of the stuff most sold to the average consumer, is "superficial crap" which one can certainly ignore. But it's far from superficial if one has a deep interest in underlying themes, and values, like the importance of truthfulness, self-awareness, honesty, and the like. I don't think there's anything superficial about such values. Why you'd regard it as complaining seems more like superficiality on your part, quite honestly.