Passion And Ambition.

[Dan Rowden]

The free man is not enslaved because he cannot feel himself to be other than what he is. He is neither free nor bound.

[Ming on Mongo]

The free man is not enslaved because he cannot feel himself to be other than what he is. He is neither free nor bound.

Interesting notion. But as would be helpful with alot of the discussion here, could you cite some real-life examples (either living or dead)? Or is it just a theoretical ideal?

[divine focus]

Even science attempts to tell a story (albeit very unexciting up till now).

It seems to excite a great many of people. Why doesn't it excite you then?

It did at one point, that's true. The logic didn't add up eventually. First of all, there's so many hypotheticals and unobserved phenomena that's taken as real for at least the sake of discussion that basically everyone's confused. The specialization requred to verify and understand a topic is incredible, so that outside of your narrow field you can't say too much with genuine authority. Also, the goal of combining general relativity and quantum mechanics into a unified theory seems to lead to "Theories Wthout End." (Amen.) No answers, just..."wtf??"

[Ataraxia]

The free man is not enslaved because he cannot feel himself to be other than what he is. He is neither free nor bound.

Interesting notion. But as would be helpful with alot of the discussion here, could you cite some real-life examples (either living or dead)? Or is it just a theoretical ideal?

It is the great paradox for the believer in free-will, isn't it. By adopting the position that it does indeed exists one is immediately bound by it, enslaved; forever wondering "what if I had i have have done it it this way or that?". An eternal cycle of speculation, regret and suffering.

Meanwhile, the person who understands that it could never have been any other way - often easier said than done (at least in my case) - is truly at peace with himself. There never was a "choice", or more to the point, there was never someone making it.

[divine focus]

Meanwhile, the person who understands that it could never have been any other way - often easier said than done (at least in my case) - is truly at peace with himself.

Or, there's no need to be any other way. It could be different, but what's wrong with this way?

[Ryan Rudolph]

Ataraxia,

Meanwhile, the person who understands that it could never have been any other way - often easier said than done (at least in my case) - is truly at peace with himself. There never was a "choice", or more to the point, there was never someone making it.

In a sense, we have choices based on our priorities, but our priorities are based on the best knowledge we have at the time.

However, even a wise person can be faced with tough decisions on how to spend their time because you only have one life, and you can only dedicate yourself to so many things even though you may want to do many more things.

For instance: I find myself interested in many empirical sciences, philosophy plus fringe social sciences such as politics, culture differences, and economic interactions, and deciding how to spend your leisure time requires making decisions and favoring one choice over another.

[Anders Schlander]

It's our choices that are caused. It's not the choices that are free,

if the choices were free, 'we' could choose anything.

To have true free-will one can't be relative to anything - because being relative to something, then your will must be determined by something else.

in that way, only the infinite has free-will, but then free will doesn't exist just like the infinite doesn't actually exist.

But if free-will doesn't exist, what's the point of the infinite havign free will?

Well, it's not bound by anything, and neither can the infinite be caused if it has free will - but we can't say that the infinite actually wills anything, because only finite things can will anything, willing is relative.

[divine focus]

It's our choices that are caused. It's not the choices that are free,

if the choices were free, 'we' could choose anything.

To have true free-will one can't be relative to anything - because being relative to something, then your will must be determined by something else.

in that way, only the infinite has free-will, but then free will doesn't exist just like the infinite doesn't actually exist.

But if free-will doesn't exist, what's the point of the infinite havign free will?

Well, it's not bound by anything, and neither can the infinite be caused if it has free will - but we can't say that the infinite actually wills anything, because only finite things can will anything, willing is relative.

Will is from the absolute. The question is, is the absolute finite or infinite. Your choice, or one choice.