Celibacy

[syzygy]

How many people here deliberately forego sexual intercourse for a love of the Absolute?

Anyone? Anyone willing to share? Has anyone come closer to God through celibacy? Is this a suggested path to genius? Is it suggested by Otto Weininger, as the wikipedia article states?

What do people think of doing so?

I'd love to hear thoughts on the subject.

[Is.]

Hey.

As it is in this moment, I usually put much more attention to God (The Father) than to sexual desires.

But then again, tomorrow I might participate in a hardcore porno movie - you never know. And of course, only inferior beings would regard hardcore porn as somehow less spiritual than sitting quietly on a mountain. When one's true nature is awakened to, all activity is seen to be a perfect expression of God.

"Don't hesitate
Get laid
That's wisdom.
Sitting around chanting--what crap!"
-Ikkyu, 13th-centry Zen Master

[syzygy]

Hey.

As it is in this moment, I usually put much more attention to God (The Father) than to sexual desires.

But then again, tomorrow I might participate in a hardcore porno movie - you never know. And of course, only inferior beings would regard hardcore porn as somehow less spiritual than sitting quietly on a mountain. When one's true nature is awakened to, all activity is seen to be a perfect expression of God.

"Don't hesitate
Get laid
That's wisdom.
Sitting around chanting--what crap!"
-Ikkyu, 13th-centry Zen Master

Hey Is. Thanks for sharing.

I agree 100%. that all is a perfect expression of the All, or Infinite.

The thing is if we are not fully awakened to our perfect nature, or if we have lapses from the knowing of our perfect nature, we're subject to our brain programming, which developed over time, during a process that has us tied into guilt, shame, etc., even if we experience such emotions unconsciously. And by any vestiges of such fragmentation, we experience the cause and effect of such programming in the confines of time/cause and effect. And when we return to the light of enlightenment, or of Infinite Being and Eternal living, we experience the consequences of any choices made out of synch with full awakening. We become aware of this process.

Some would say that if one is awakened to their true nature, they would automatically be compassionate, and by such token would be unable to use hardcore pornography, given it is of a world that is dark and exploitative of one's fellow humans.

At the same time, healthy sexual expression that is not based on exploitation can absolutely be an act of an enlightened being, in my understanding.

[Animus]

Old discussion on chastity

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4852

[Is.]

Some would say that if one is awakened to their true nature, they would automatically be compassionate, and by such token would be unable to use hardcore pornography, given it is of a world that is dark and exploitative of one's fellow humans.

Awakening to reality has nothing to do with morals. Morals are part of the dream. Just look at this:

"If ordered to march: tramp, tramp or shoot: bang, bang. This is the manifestation of the highest wisdom of enlightenment. The unity of Zen and war ... extends to the farthest reaches of the holy war now under way."
-Zen Master Harada Daiun Sogaku - 1939

When you experience the suchness that is reality, there are no distinctions drawn. So hardcore exploative porn and a beautiful flower are not seen as separate things with their own identity. They are both a perfect expression of the Divine.

Morals must be generated by the conventional person. We must work at this. It is not something that is handed down to us from above.

So what kind of morals have you got? Egocentric? Ethnocentric? Worldcentric? Kosmocentric? The Zen Master quoted above were not capable of seeing higher than ethnocentristic morality.

[Talking Ass]

"If ordered to march: tramp, tramp or shoot: bang, bang. This is the manifestation of the highest wisdom of enlightenment. The unity of Zen and war ... extends to the farthest reaches of the holy war now under way."
-Zen Master Harada Daiun Sogaku - 1939

I am a long-standing fan of Master Harada. It is said that his principal means of transport was a donkey he loved dearly. When it died he was going to have it stuffed but I don't know how it turned out. Thanks for reminding me of him. You may know better than I: is it true he lived for a time with Anais Nin and Henry Miller in Paris?

[syzygy]

Some would say that if one is awakened to their true nature, they would automatically be compassionate, and by such token would be unable to use hardcore pornography, given it is of a world that is dark and exploitative of one's fellow humans.

Awakening to reality has nothing to do with morals. Morals are part of the dream. Just look at this:

"If ordered to march: tramp, tramp or shoot: bang, bang. This is the manifestation of the highest wisdom of enlightenment. The unity of Zen and war ... extends to the farthest reaches of the holy war now under way."
-Zen Master Harada Daiun Sogaku - 1939

When you experience the suchness that is reality, there are no distinctions drawn. So hardcore exploative porn and a beautiful flower are not seen as separate things with their own identity. They are both a perfect expression of the Divine.

Morals must be generated by the conventional person. We must work at this. It is not something that is handed down to us from above.

So what kind of morals have you got? Egocentric? Ethnocentric? Worldcentric? Kosmocentric? The Zen Master quoted above were not capable of seeing higher than ethnocentristic morality.

I agree that morals are part of the dream. I agree that the Infinite is beyond discernment of morals. However, getting past the dream, one must come to terms with the dream and one's morals and the consequences of one's actions within the dream.

One's awakened nature speaks for itself. One's non-awakened nature speaks for itself. Even given both are fundamentally One.

[syzygy]

Old discussion on chastity

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4852

Thanks Animus.


I find it interesting that more are not claiming celibacy on this board. Especially given that according to Otto Weininger, apparently, part of the "masculine" path is to forego sexuality in favour of the Absolute, God, within.

[Talking Ass]

At the same time, healthy sexual expression that is not based on exploitation can absolutely be an act of an enlightened being, in my understanding.

It is interesting that one of the problems is that, until recently, sexual intercourse between men and women (unless you went the route recommended by the Marquis de Sade in his sexual and political discourses) would always have such repercussions. Pregnancy, life-long commitment, and so much more.

Isn't it true that only now, with birth control and certain advances by science that provide birth control, that we can now take both a careless and a carefulness-of-a-different-sort in respect to sexuality? It is only as a result of a certain enlightenment of circumstances that we could even suppose that we might have an enlightened sexual encounters with someone? I think that was one of the effects of the so-called Sexual Revolution, a kind of freedom, and a freedom of consequences.

But to speak of enlightened sexual attitudes, say in India's Medieval period (one example and only because the Hindus have written so much about sex, spiritual sexuality, and just flat out sensual sex between a man and his wife), or in almost any period other than the recently and the now, is not possible. True, in Hindu literature enlightened sex might have taken place between a man and his wife or a man and his consort, but the burden of consequences was always close.

To may way of seeing things, it is the issue of consequences that radically changes the nature of the activity.

A person with an enlightened attitude could, I suppose, have 'enlightened sex' that would likely avoid the heaviness of pornographic sex---which may or may not be 'exploitative'. But it sure wouldn't be that enlightened if he produced children he/she didn't want or couldn't care for.

[syzygy]

At the same time, healthy sexual expression that is not based on exploitation can absolutely be an act of an enlightened being, in my understanding.

It is interesting that one of the problems is that, until recently, sexual intercourse between men and women (unless you went the route recommended by the Marquis de Sade in his sexual and political discourses) would always have such repercussions. Pregnancy, life-long commitment, and so much more.

Isn't it true that only now, with birth control and certain advances by science that provide birth control, that we can now take both a careless and a carefulness-of-a-different-sort in respect to sexuality? It is only as a result of a certain enlightenment of circumstances that we could even suppose that we might have an enlightened sexual encounters with someone? I think that was one of the effects of the so-called Sexual Revolution, a kind of freedom, and a freedom of consequences.

But to speak of enlightened sexual attitudes, say in India's Medieval period (one example and only because the Hindus have written so much about sex, spiritual sexuality, and just flat out sensual sex between a man and his wife), or in almost any period other than the recently and the now, is not possible. True, in Hindu literature enlightened sex might have taken place between a man and his wife or a man and his consort, but the burden of consequences was always close.

To may way of seeing things, it is the issue of consequences that radically changes the nature of the activity.

A person with an enlightened attitude could, I suppose, have 'enlightened sex' that would likely avoid the heaviness of pornographic sex---which may or may not be 'exploitative'. But it sure wouldn't be that enlightened if he produced children he/she didn't want or couldn't care for.

Actually, I don't necessarily take issue with "pornographic sex" and don't automatically see any sexual act as exploitative. I thought Is. referred to potentially using pornography, and pornography is linked to much nefarious activity. Certainly, I support any individuals, who are without coersion in consent, to work our something to meet their own purposes, whatever that may be. And to learn from their actions/consequences.

I'm hyper-aware of the consequences of my actions. Which I feel, as you do, is the issue here.

And having abstained, voluntarily, from sexual intercourse for 11 years, (for ten years while in a committed romantic relationship, with someone who was even more serious about doing the same) I'm very cognizant of degrees of sexual consciousness I don't often hear of from others. And because I have not limited my consciousness with "morality", judgment, tradition, belief, etc., I have come to understand very much on topics such as sacred sexuality on a spiritual level, through spiritual experience.

[Talking Ass]

Me, I'm much more confused (confused is not quite the word, it is more like I don't have one unified viewpoint) and I don't see an easy path through any of this. I can see very many good reasons why people have been and should be taught to restrain themselves sexually. So, moral and ethical systems come into play and they are not merely 'invented', they reflect some level of 'truth' or in any case truth-claims. It can be seen, from one perspective of view, that when the early Christians (Paul) began their mission, they came across people whose culture was dominated by a certain sexual profligacy: husbands sleeping with servants, wives having affairs, a general libertine sexual atmosphere that had many different social and 'moral' consequences. On the other hand, you could (and people do) see this Christian-Jewish endeavor as repressive, and look with suspicion on the 'moralizing process'.

From a Christian perspective though, and this is expressed in Corinthians with some pretty decent reasoning, strictly 'pornographic sex' is seen as a kind of 'insult' to the spirit that resides in us, which is seen as divine. The Hindus have a similar notion about it, though they explain in great detail (I trained for 3 years in a Tantric sexual camp in Southern India under a yogini named Mata Subramanyan) how a couple can derive tremendous pleasure from their sexual union, it cannot degenerate into what we generally condemn as 'pornographic sex'.

Certainly, I support any man/woman who are without coercion in consent.

I 'support' too, insofar as I cannot directly control, any other human being in doing what they want to do, and I don't have too much desire to control them. But the consequences of individual choices do indeed radiate out from any private individual and have effect on the culture and the general atmosphere. Sometimes quite profoundly, or perhaps always quite profoundly. I am forced to accept the necessity for a liberal, tolerant attitude (sex with 'consent') but I do not at all see it is value-neutral. Unfortunately, there is little that is clear in the liberalizing of sexual (and other) practices, and we can see (or I can) the destructive aspect of changing attitudes and practices. We can take a very simple example: If people in a culture become libertine sexually, and their libertinism 'infects' a child of mine (humans are inclined to imitate social practices and customs), and my child embodies those attitudes and practices, I can indeed see an effect that extends beyond two consenting adults. It becomes very difficult, in a liberal and free society, to even imagine what sorts of controls should be applied, how and when, etc. It is extremely complex. So, fewer and fewer contrls are applied and the culture moves in the direction of being a sort of 'pornographic visual culture'. Take for example the American Apparel ads. Just one example among many.

And because I have not limited my consciousness with "morality", judgment, tradition, belief, etc., I have come to understand very much on topics such as sacred sexuality on a spiritual level, through spiritual experience.

Why put morality in quotes? Well, I know why you do of course. But, all cultures that I know of, except perhaps our own, have definite moral rules that pertain to sexuality, and judgment, tradition and belief are all in there too, operating. I don't think that we can get around it, myself. It is more a question of clearly defining our morals, basing our judgments on sensible and constant criteria, redefining our traditions and our beliefs to reflect this, etc.

Libertinism, sometimes, seems to propose surrendering of 'morals' as if 'morals' is a bad word, a bad thing to have. But being unable to define morals, or one's own morals, is actually a very dangerous siituation. I think. It is all very, very complex.

Sometimes I have thought that---as a thinking person---my best strategy is simply not to care what 'the others' do, the multitudes, all these beings I see running around. Let them subvert all values, let them egoically and self-centerdly overturn traditions and ethical codes, let them weasel out from under all restraints, imposed usually from above and by power-structures that direct them, and let them live out the consequences of their actions. There is indeed a growing, global pornographic culture that no one at this point is going to be able to stop. It is unlike anything that has ever occurred and the implications are quite vast. But let it be! Maybe many good things that came about through restraint will be forever lost---who cares? Who can afford to care? And as far as that goes, let all the trends that are 'destructive' only continue, and let the whole wide world come to the brink of disaster. Or even better, let 'the Earth' be destroyed! Participate in that destruction!

I think that this is what Hesse was getting at with his resurrection of the God Abraxis. You have to give Satan his due.

I have found that the only way people (we) learn about what is 'destructive' and 'productive' in life, is by living the consequences of their (our) actions. But there is great, great danger in giving the multitudes the 'right' (or the power) to do this, to follow their whims. That is one reason why 'the multitides', in fact, live with so many constraints---chains if you will.

[Ryan Rudolph]

sexual experiences, for men, are mostly done for reasons of power and control, and for a release of aggressive emotions. And that is why there is quite a bit of danger as far as addiction, attachment and the mistreatment of women are concerned. Women end up putting up with a man's mistreatment in the bedroom because she wants him to stay satisfied, and she overlooks the fact that she is being mistreated.

And then there is sex done for reasons of sentimentalism, which have quite a bit of danger as well because there is a threat of attachment and the belief in two separate egos...

These are the largest spiritual threats in the sexual act that I can see..

[syzygy]

So, moral and ethical systems come into play and they are not merely 'invented', they reflect some level of 'truth' or in any case truth-claims.

Although I see some 'high' spiritual perspectives, I know the truth of the reality before us, and of this level of 'truth' you talk of.

From a Christian perspective though, and this is expressed in Corinthians with some pretty decent reasoning, strictly 'pornographic sex' is seen as a kind of 'insult' to the spirit that resides in us, which is seen as divine. The Hindus have a similar notion about it, though they explain in great detail (I trained for 3 years in a Tantric sexual camp in Southern India under a yogini named Mata Subramanyan) how a couple can derive tremendous pleasure from their sexual union, it cannot degenerate into what we generally condemn as 'pornographic sex'.

I agree about strictly pornographic sex being (something like) an insult to the spirit within, at least according to my perceptions on sacred sexuality, and that which is .... Sacred.

In my understanding of what is, I see Infinite Being, and on the level of time and space, I see our existence, as well as all the heavenly realms (which exist in subtler time/space), which God is of, and outside of. While the Spiritual planes are of a different dimension than our 3-dimensions, in someways they are like our 'higher' dimensions of thought and emotion, which exist in subtler dimensions (meaning that although they have a physical correlate, they are 'invisible' dimensions). Of course all this differentiation is merely for purposes of illustrating my understanding. But, yes, these 'levels' that may be considered 'the dream', relative to the Absolute--these levels whereupon God seems separate by space/time, and where we must find our way back to God, are very real. Even though some people are somewhat out of touch with them.

I 'support' too, insofar as I cannot directly control, any other human being in doing what they want to do, and I don't have too much desire to control them. But the consequences of individual choices do indeed radiate out from any private individual and have effect on the culture and the general atmosphere. Sometimes quite profoundly, or perhaps always quite profoundly. I am forced to accept the necessity for a liberal, tolerant attitude (sex with 'consent') but I do not at all see it is value-neutral. Unfortunately, there is little that is clear in the liberalizing of sexual (and other) practices, and we can see (or I can) the destructive aspect of changing attitudes and practices. We can take a very simple example: If people in a culture become libertine sexually, and their libertinism 'infects' a child of mine (humans are inclined to imitate social practices and customs), and my child embodies those attitudes and practices, I can indeed see an effect that extends beyond two consenting adults. It becomes very difficult, in a liberal and free society, to even imagine what sorts of controls should be applied, how and when, etc. It is extremely complex. So, fewer and fewer contrls are applied and the culture moves in the direction of being a sort of 'pornographic visual culture'. Take for example the American Apparel ads. Just one example among many.

I also support a liberal view, not because I practice such ways, myself, but so that I do not judge others, or otherwise infringe upon them.

To the awakened, or the wise, or the merely aware...sexual practices cause great painful consequence to those in our societies. My original reason for abstaining from intercourse was to heal from numerous sexual abuses I had endured, beginning at age 5, and which resulted in years of severe mental health issues.

I agree, it is not value neutral. And my very conscientious attitude towards the sacredness of sexuality backs up my thoughts/words on the subject, by playing out reverentially in my deed.

Why put morality in quotes? Well, I know why you do of course. But, all cultures that I know of, except perhaps our own, have definite moral rules that pertain to sexuality, and judgment, tradition and belief are all in there too, operating. I don't think that we can get around it, myself. It is more a question of clearly defining our morals, basing our judgments on sensible and constant criteria, redefining our traditions and our beliefs to reflect this, etc.

Libertinism, sometimes, seems to propose surrendering of 'morals' as if 'morals' is a bad word, a bad thing to have. But being unable to define morals, or one's own morals, is actually a very dangerous siituation. I think. It is all very, very complex.

It is very very complex....

I consider myself fortunate to be intuitive, intelligent, idealist, etc. and I would be considered amoral, in the sense that I am quite able to discern beyond traditional or socially decided morality. At the same time, truth, at this point in time in our evolution, speaks through such societies, dictating what works for us en masse at this point in time. And had I listened to social mores, I'd have saved myself a LOT of pain and learning the hard way.

Sometimes I have thought that---as a thinking person---my best strategy is simply not to care what 'the others' do, the multitudes, all these beings I see running around. Let them subvert all values, let them egoically and self-centerdly overturn traditions and ethical codes, let them weasel out from under all restraints, imposed usually from above and by power-structures that direct them, and let them live out the consequences of their actions. There is indeed a growing, global pornographic culture that no one at this point is going to be able to stop. It is unlike anything that has ever occurred and the implications are quite vast. But let it be! Maybe many good things that came about through restraint will be forever lost---who cares? Who can afford to care? And as far as that goes, let all the trends that are 'destructive' only continue, and let the whole wide world come to the brink of disaster. Or even better, let 'the Earth' be destroyed! Participate in that destruction!

I surrender to the perfect intelligence in All. But, yeah...the ramifications of the global pornographic culture are staggering. And I would caution people about anything that is not reverent......but people are willful, and love to learn the hard way.

I think that this is what Hesse was getting at with his resurrection of the God Abraxis. You have to give Satan his due.

I have found that the only way people (we) learn about what is 'destructive' and 'productive' in life, is by living the consequences of their (our) actions. But there is great, great danger in giving the multitudes the 'right' (or the power) to do this, to follow their whims. That is one reason why 'the multitides', in fact, live with so many constraints---chains if you will.

It's all good. There's a natural balance, and "cause and effect" and other natural and evolutionary laws are very effective! even when people can think of themselves beyond such truths.

[syzygy]

sexual experiences, for men, are mostly done for reasons of power and control, and for a release of aggressive emotions. And that is why there is quite a bit of danger as far as addiction, attachment and the mistreatment of women are concerned. Women end up putting up with a man's mistreatment in the bedroom because she wants him to stay satisfied, and she overlooks the fact that she is being mistreated.

And then there is sex done for reasons of sentimentalism, which have quite a bit of danger as well because there is a threat of attachment and the belief in two separate egos...

These are the largest spiritual threats in the sexual act that I can see..

I agree with what you are saying. And at the same time, sexual activity can be a pathway to God. It can be the ultimate path to Oneness and of moving beyond ego and separation. It symbolically speaks to us in this way.

Granted, many are not nearly ready for this level of sexual experience at this point in our evolution.

[Nick]

How many people here deliberately forego sexual intercourse for a love of the Absolute?

I find the act of courting women to be dishonest, depraved, and far too compromising for my liking, which shockingly enough leads to very few sexual encounters.

Anyone? Anyone willing to share? Has anyone come closer to God through celibacy? Is this a suggested path to genius? Is it suggested by Otto Weininger, as the wikipedia article states?

For me celibacy is a result of developing my spirituality, not the other way around. Still, I do think there is some value in abstinence not just from sex, but from many different things fueled by delusion. It can help clear one's mind in order to focus on other more important things, and lay the ground work in preparation for a life more suited to the philosophical path.

[Foreigner]

How many people here deliberately forego sexual intercourse for a love of the Absolute?

Anyone? Anyone willing to share?

I'd love to hear thoughts on the subject.

Well dont hold your breath, no one worth responding will do so for he is either ashamed of failure and unwilling to enter doubt into worshipers minds, or knows that no one will believe him anyway which has its own problems.

But if you must know the truth the simple answer is-- sex is not practiced nor even a temptation for any fully awakened person.
There is nothing to "forego" in the first place.

Still all systems remain fully functional, in the unlikely event that saving the race becomes an issue!

There, lets hope that gets something going for you....

[Diebert van Rhijn]

How many people here deliberately forego sexual intercourse for a love of the Absolute?

What about masturbation, do you include this in "sexual intercourse", Syz?

Personally I'm not familiar with deliberately foregoing, like willfully rejecting, of sexual activity, at least not for any spiritual or philosophical reasons. Not since some limited periods in my teenage years in the context of Christianity. But I can see the value for other temperaments.

With the absolute there's nothing to gain but everything to lose so why not asking instead: how many people here deliberately forgo wisdom of the infinite for sexual intercourse?

sexual expression that is not based on exploitation can absolutely be an act of an enlightened being (...)I have come to understand very much on topics such as sacred sexuality on a spiritual level, through spiritual experience.

Is this based on your own experience while abstained for the last 11 years, or do you take it on faith? Or are you having something specific in mind with the phrases "sexual expression" and "sacred sexuality"?

[syzygy]

How many people here deliberately forego sexual intercourse for a love of the Absolute?

What about masturbation, do you include this in "sexual intercourse", Syz?

Sexual intercourse refers to......sexual intercourse. In my initial post, I was referring to celibacy in general, which depending on people's interpretations, may or may not pertain to masturbation.



As to myself, personally, my particular abstinence through the years was not consciously for spiritual reasons, but for reasons of healing. My abstinence has varied in terms of masturbation, depending on different mindsets that have evolved these 11 years.

Frankly, for years, I have made a conscious choice that I intend to integrate my sexuality holistically, meaning physically, as well, although I have not found the appropriate situation through which to do so. And then, at the same time, I've been shown dpiritual visions/experience that have inspired me to transfer my sexual energy into 'loftier' purposes. It's far from clear to me at this point, so I act very little, and very, as I say, reverentially. I am forced to live in the moment, in Eternity. The moment lives me. I accept.

Personally I'm not familiar with deliberately foregoing, like willfully rejecting, of sexual activity, at least not for any spiritual or philosophical reasons. Not since some limited periods in my teenage years in the context of Christianity. But I can see the value for other temperaments.

With the absolute there's nothing to gain but everything to lose so why not asking instead: how many people here deliberately forgo wisdom of the infinite for sexual intercourse?

sexual expression that is not based on exploitation can absolutely be an act of an enlightened being (...)I have come to understand very much on topics such as sacred sexuality on a spiritual level, through spiritual experience.

Is this based on your own experience while abstained for the last 11 years, or do you take it on faith? Or are you having something specific in mind with the phrases "sexual expression" and "sacred sexuality"?

As a side benefit to healing sexual abuses from my past, I have been overwhelmed to see how my sexual practises have led to levels of awareness I did not realize were possible. And yet, at the same time, due to my calling and awareness, I've given up almost every other vice going.

My understanding of sacred sexuality is much through Spiritual revelation, whereupon I have been shown these dynamics. This is given I had absolutely no interest in the subject prior to such visions. Also, these spiritual visions I have been shown entailed another person I am connected to, and have been interacting with, and who has played out these dynamics with me on experientially spiritual levels, but not on physically sexual levels. One must have understanding of the inner planes to understand this, and it's been through such Spiritual connection that I am learning and growing in my own awareness on the inner planes, on this subject. I have come to KNOW, experientially, the Oneness with other, spiritually. Again, without sex. however, I can also see that what I don't know, and that I am open to in each moment, is so mind-bogglingly beyond me, and transcendent.

[syzygy]

Still, I do think there is some value in abstinence not just from sex, but from many different things fueled by delusion. It can help clear one's mind in order to focus on other more important things, and lay the ground work in preparation for a life more suited to the philosophical path.

Thanks for sharing, Nick.

I agree. The giving up of my vices is what's connected me to Truth. My years of practising from only intellectual detachment without practical application was judgmentally delusional and illusory.

[Talking Ass]

With the absolute there's nothing to gain but everything to lose so why not asking instead: how many people here deliberately forgo wisdom of the infinite for sexual intercourse?

Reminded me of a poem by e.e. cummings:

since feeling is first
who pays any attention
to the syntax of things
will never wholly kiss you;
wholly to be a fool
while Spring is in the world

my blood approves,
and kisses are a better fate
than wisdom
lady i swear by all flowers. Don't cry
--the best gesture of my brain is less than
your eyelids' flutter which says

we are for each other: then
laugh, leaning back in my arms
for life's not a paragraph

And death i think is no parenthesis

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Thanks Syz, for the extensive reply. Not much to add or comment on for me at this stage.

[Blair]

Has anyone come closer to God through celibacy? Is this a suggested path to genius?

What do people think of doing so?

God provided sexuality in physical form in this dimensional paradigm so that souls, in a human manifestation, can experience some of God's creative power in a controlled environment. It is up to the incarnation to play with this as much as required to move to the next level of development. It usually requires several lifetimes before the soul, having amnesia, realizes that, for example the penis, does not go into the mouth or anus of another person. It can play as much as it likes with what is called perversion, there is no judgment in that respect, Gods way is simply waiting for the soul to "get it", so to speak.

No happiness or contentment can be had through the perversion or abuse of the divine law, only distress. The cycle is a very large array, with many overlapping parts.

[syzygy]

Has anyone come closer to God through celibacy? Is this a suggested path to genius?

What do people think of doing so?

God provided sexuality in physical form in this dimensional paradigm so that souls, in a human manifestation, can experience some of God's creative power in a controlled environment. It is up to the incarnation to play with this as much as required to move to the next level of development. It usually requires several lifetimes before the soul, having amnesia, realizes that, for example the penis, does not go into the mouth or anus of another person. It can play as much as it likes with what is called perversion, there is no judgment in that respect, Gods way is simply waiting for the soul to "get it", so to speak.

No happiness or contentment can be had through the perversion or abuse of the divine law, only distress. The cycle is a very large array, with many overlapping parts.

I agree, we are able to experiment with creative power, and that in the sexual arena, along with all other areas where our actions create consequences, we are allowed to play around in cause and effect, moving to higher levels of development when able. I also agree that we are enabled to explore or experiment as much as we like and that there is no judgment from God. God is at a dimension beyond time, Eternal, where God always knows our Oneness, and therefore 'has all the time in the world'. It is we who keep ourselves separate and thusly in pain as we learn through separation.

I also agree that we create our own distress through the perversion or abuse of Divine law.

[Animus]

To be honest, I don't even think about sex when I'm not thinking about sex.

Most of the time I'm not thinking about it, generally I only think about it when my eyes meet a sexual stimuli, such as an attractive female in revealing garments. In that regard, when I see a woman dressed modestly, I don't think about sex. Even more so, lately when viewing a provocatively dressed female I just think "ignorance".

I've been "celibate" for a couple of years because a) I don't care that much, b) I have better things to do, c) its a transitory act, d) once the adrenaline, testosterone, oxytocin, phenethylamine and so forth have done their job I'm happy to go back to reading philosophy, but there is generally a woman with different motives, e) sex is almost never just about sex, its got a lot of baggage.

[Tomas]

.


-Animus-
e) sex is almost never just about sex, its got a lot of baggage.

-tomas-
We are celibate with each other. Luckily (whatever the word), we found each other at a time when we thought we did. No marriage license, just parental permission at age-14. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but well worth our time. Honey, I've got a headache is in the best of relationships and the worst of relationships.

PS - The baggage is from the beginning flirt to the eventual .. ending .. it's called thinking :-)