Murder and Philosophy

[Tomas]

Tomas,

When you've got nothing to say feel free to not post.

Thank you for your timely reply.

So why do you post in Trevor's thread if you've nothing to add?

Just asking..

[Carl G]

Obviously your and my definition of something to add differs.

[Tomas]

Obviously your and my definition of something to add differs.

Okay, your philosophy has just been introduced to this thread, thanks :-/

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

[Tomas]

.


-Carl G-
I've got to say it again, I swear, why do we tolerate the Worldly Matters Forum.

-tomas-
So what is the urge inside you to keep going there, over and over again?


-Carl G-
It is nothing but a breeding ground for the same sort of delusion.

-tomas-
The great majority of people don't shoot someone, but you do.


-Carl G-
We should be ashamed. I say we close it permanently.

-tomas-
What drives you to believe everyone here thinks in the same serial way you do? Perhaps you are a bit fascist in that the end goal is that your dollhouse is comprised of your experiences .. your murderous philosophy?

Kelly Jones is taking a break from here, how about you?

[Shahrazad]

Tomas, I don't think you get Carl's point about calling for the closing of the WM forum. What he is asking for is for David Quinn to be consistent -- to act according to his philosophy. IOW, to put his forum where his mouth is.

[Tomas]

Tomas, I don't think you get Carl's point about calling for the closing of the WM forum. What he is asking for is for David Quinn to be consistent -- to act according to his philosophy. IOW, to put his forum where his mouth is.

I understand Carl quite well, thank you.

Click on to read Carl's first posts on this forum. David was the first to respond to Carl. (Thread: Masculine and Feminine Psychology)

David Quinn would clean his clock in The Crucible. Let them duke it out.

[Carl G]

Tomas, I don't think you get Carl's point about calling for the closing of the WM forum. What he is asking for is for David Quinn to be consistent -- to act according to his philosophy. IOW, to put his forum where his mouth is.

Thank you, Shah. That was my point exactly.

[David Quinn]

The main purpose of Worldly Matters is to divert the flotsam and jetsam away from the main forum.

It used to be called The Brothel, which had satirical overtones (which I liked). But then Marsha Faizi ruined it with her impersonation of a Madame and her over-the-top complaints about how she was relegated to being queen of an inferior forum, a bizarre fictitious drama she created all by herself. So Kevin changed it to the rather bland title, "Worldly Matters", which gave it a veneer of respectability that it doesn't really deserve.

So I would be in favour of keeping it and changing its name back to "The Brothel".

-

[Shahrazad]

I happen to like the name "the brothel". It's funnier.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Here are some other possible titles for worldly matters.

1. The Sewer.

2. Carl's Attic.

3. Tomas' army shed.

4. Science, news and politics.

5. Coffee break.

[Carl G]

I think of it as The Cesspool.

[Rhett]

I find that the more ignorant and less conscious a person is, the less imagination and constructiveness they have. They have a greater propensity for destructive behaviours, including in this case serial killing. No person with a good mind is going to waste their life and others on killing, they won't risk losing their good life. A serial killer is in pain and has a bad idea as to how to get out of it.

In a somewhat similar vein, the idea of there being psychopaths of the common definition, i.e. people who are highly intelligent, immoral and free of suffering, is false. It is a case of misdiagnosis and myth. I have met individuals that exhibited psychopathic behaviours and each of them actually suffered more than the average person. They used techniques to try to counter their suffering such as suppression, or flowing with it in a rage, or scattering their mind into a spin to try to shake their conscience loose. I don't find that very intelligent. One suffered severely from insomnia. Many if not all psychopaths are partly motivated by jealousy of others suffering less than they do, and they want to even things up.

The idealisation of psychopathy is driven by society's desire to believe that the casting aside of morality can lift the burden of suffering. The truth is it doesn't.

[HUNTEDvsINVIS]

oh bunny! a serial killer is a person who kills people cuz they feel nothing but rage and they want to tear things apart. its that simple Trevor. and NO, they are not always dumb, sometimes, they are really clever and good-looking, but they are still very angry for some inconceivable reason.

[dysfunctionalgenius]

'Murder and Philosophy' I feel that these two words create a sense of oxymoron

[Tomas]

deleted - double post

[Tomas]

When I was younger, I wanted to be a criminal profiler. Even though life took me in a different direction, I still love people watching. But I've never seen a serial killer. How does the mind of a serial killer work? It's the one thing, as a philosopher, I've never been able to figure out.

Hi, Trevor.

Fairly soon, I'd like to flash back to my VietNam days. I guess there must be my past serial killer lurking there. When I run into people who're back from Iraq, and their stories. What I've intentionally forgotten sometimes comes creeping to the surface, especially when riding with the police/sheriff on some of their patrols, all the innocent faces. Flashbacks ain't the proper wording, though. Lemme know sooner rather than later.

Tomas

[Carl G]

When I was younger, I wanted to be a criminal profiler. Even though life took me in a different direction, I still love people watching. But I've never seen a serial killer. How does the mind of a serial killer work? It's the one thing, as a philosopher, I've never been able to figure out.

Hi, Trevor.

Fairly soon, I'd like to flash back to my VietNam days. I guess there must be my past serial killer lurking there. When I run into people who're back from Iraq, and their stories. What I've intentionally forgotten sometimes comes creeping to the surface, especially when riding with the police/sheriff on some of their patrols, all the innocent faces. Flashbacks ain't the proper wording, though. Lemme know sooner rather than later.

Tomas

[Is.]

Have you guys never walked up a building in GTA (the computer game) with a sniper in hand, prepared to shoot unsuspecting people on the streets for no perticular reason?

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g30/ak-73/sniper3.jpg

I sure have. Perhaps in addition to the beautiful analyses you've mentioned already we could closely study our own minds and their subtle workings as we do these horrible things in a computer game. Perhaps, digging extremely deep, there are some similarities between ourselves and serial killers? And knowing this similarity will perhaps strengthen our moral sense, since I believe any reduction in confusion/repression and subsequent gain in knowledge often leads to positive results.

[Tomas]

Have you guys never walked up a building in GTA (the computer game) with a sniper in hand, prepared to shoot unsuspecting people on the streets for no perticular reason?

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g30/ak-73/sniper3.jpg

I sure have. Perhaps in addition to the beautiful analyses you've mentioned already we could closely study our own minds and their subtle workings as we do these horrible things in a computer game. Perhaps, digging extremely deep, there are some similarities between ourselves and serial killers? And knowing this similarity will perhaps strengthen our moral sense, since I believe any reduction in confusion/repression and subsequent gain in knowledge often leads to positive results.

Thanks, I now have a better perspective :-)

[Foreigner]

I reckon serial killers dont normally plan someday, when they're all grown up, to become a serial killer. i think it's more often a case of having learned to enjoy killing a kind of discovery, combined along with (are you seated?) a sense of acting in the best interests of society.
After all, what sense would there be in ridding the world of just one bad apple? when there are so many more deserving both extinction and punishment." Cops count on a never-ending string of bodies too since, quiters are so much more difficult to apprehend.
As has been noted these sorry souls have usually had more than their share of unhappy moments, and have learned to hate people or a certain class of people quite deeply. If hardship at the hands of others is not balanced or tempered by the love of mother or some other close relationship, and if one's faith (rel to Truth) is particularly weak, one unplanned opportunity may very well lead to several planned ones.

Are not most serial killers killers of women?
I see a guy either too wierd to be attractive to women or too unemotional to capture and hold her love. Feeling powerless, every day and every minute powerless to have his own way, even powerless to effectively demonstrate his potential to love and protect if so inclined. Unable to be known, or more precisely-- not even able to be believed to be understood, which is often enough and as well as things go even in successful unions.
Thoughts of suicide prevail, often the serial is a loner who (unlike the philosopher) suffers alone, prison and the care and meals served there begin to look good, common company and the potential for friendship-- wont be a problem! who said that crime doesnt pay?"
Then after the first victim the rest comes easy, all deterrents have vanished, convinced as he becomes that people are basically bad even evil with no right to live-- then, what is there to loose?"

Nevertheless, despite any genetic makeup or predisposition, most if not all of these poor saps could have been spared this destiny, even the most foolish with the right care and concern, just like any trained pet could have instead, lived and let live.

Is anyone aware of a serial killer who is known to have lived a stellar childhood and life? loved with no worries, siblings and well educated, unspoiled and well disciplined?
yet bloodthirsty and for no apparent reason-- what is his name?





:)

[Tomas]

.


-Foreigner-
Are not most serial killers killers of women?

-tomas-
The women who kill their unborn at the rate of one million per year. I presume a certain percentage of them go on to repeat this procedure again and again. The blob, is then sold to research laboratories, or the Dr. Mengele-types, and those who want a kidney, some cartilage, a lampshade....


-Foreigner-
Then after the first victim the rest comes easy, all deterrents have vanished, convinced as he becomes that people are basically bad even evil with no right to live-- then, what is there to loose?"

-tomas-
The mind of an abortionist thinks this way?

[Foreigner]

.


-Foreigner-
Are not most serial killers killers of women?

-tomas-
The women who kill their unborn at the rate of one million per year. I presume a certain percentage of them go on to repeat this procedure again and again. The blob, is then sold to research laboratories, or the Dr. Mengele-types, and those who want a kidney, some cartilage, a lampshade....


-Foreigner-
Then after the first victim the rest comes easy, all deterrents have vanished, convinced as he becomes that people are basically bad even evil with no right to live-- then, what is there to loose?"

-tomas-
The mind of an abortionist thinks this way?

Well obviously you oppose such acts and probably consider them crimes but would you care to expound, are you of the opinion that each procedure is as wicked as the next no matter the age of the foetus, whether one week or seven months killing is still killing? that it's as much a baby as much a human child on the day after conception as it is the day before birth?

Ive always been of the opinion that a pregnant person ought to have a reasonable amount of time to decide whether to keep it or not, after conferring with partner and family and doctors; what do you think about that?

Surely if we people any of us at all, believed that every failed pregnancy truly represented a lost child, surely many thousands of miscarried babies instead of just flushing them down toilets or whatever moms now normally do with them, would be sent off to undertakers to prepare the baby or blob for its funeral along with all else that customarily occurs when a member of the family passes away.
Clearly a loss in the first month or two is quite a different situation for most thinking people. Which incidentally can be a huge iceberg of a problem for those unfortunate enough to belong to religions that discourage thinking.

[Animus]

I don't see this as a question for philosophy. Check out these fields of study: Criminology, Abnormal Psychology and Neuroscience.

MAOA Gene, Head Trauma, Abuse, Social Stigma, Low Socioeconomic Strata, Acetylation of the Gene CH3, Tumors, etc..

[Animus]

oh bunny! a serial killer is a person who kills people cuz they feel nothing but rage and they want to tear things apart. its that simple Trevor. and NO, they are not always dumb, sometimes, they are really clever and good-looking, but they are still very angry for some inconceivable reason.

Nope, it doesn't always have to do with anger, per se. The Zodiac killer wasn't the angry sort, nor was Jack the Ripper. There is a phenomena of the Hero-Killer, that is someone who aims to kill those who they feel are the scum of society, sort of a Vigilante complex.

There are generally 3 motives for killing; Compulsion, Emotional Arousal (anger), and Organized.

The Compulsive type kills not because he/she is angry, but because they have an incessant desire to kill people, Dexter is a popular TV dramatisation of this kind of killer.

The Aroused killer tends to kill in the heat of the moment without forethought, for example a guy catches his wife in bed with the cable guy and blows a gasket and hacks them up with a machede.

The Organized killer, like organized crime, premeditates and plans out the killing so as not to get caught. These types of killers usually kill for money, property or social status.

There is some cross-over, for example you might have an Organized Compulsory killer. In any case though, the threat of the consequences has little to no influence.

[Animus]

That covers the bulk of serial killers, but there are also one-off killers who kill people for other reasons.

One such example is Richard Loeb and Nathan Leopold, clocked in at 210 and 170 IQ respectively, these Jewish Geniuses with wealthy parents killed 14 year old Bobby Franks. The motive for Richard Loeb was to commit the perfect crime that a team of investigators could not figure out, to assert his superior intelligence over the society. Leopold loved Loeb and wanted to engage in sexual intercourse with him, Loeb agreed to sex with Leopold if he helped him commit the murder. Ironically Leopold and Loeb were convicted after investigators questioned Loeb about a pair of eye-glasses discovered at the scene, Loeb began blurting out what they had done and asserting how superior they were in pulling it off.

A classic example of the angry spree killer is Charles Starkweather and Carol Ann Fugate, whom the classic hollywood flick Natural Born Killers was based on. Starkweather was angry as a result of public ridicule and stigma. Charles suffered from multiple physical abnormalities including myopia and a disfigurement of his legs. Carol Ann was used and abused by her parents, and her parents were the first to be murdered by the duo.