What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Elizabeth Isabelle » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:32 am

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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby divine focus » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:03 pm

prince wrote:What is love?

It's a manifestation of our inner insecurity, inverted, projected outward.

A shared delusion is what it is. You love me with all my flaws, and I love you with all your flaws, and together we can get through this thing called life.

But the serpent bites to the last. It will get you too.

Grab it by the balls. They're there.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby divine focus » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm

Shahrazad wrote:Romantic love sucks. It will come to an end and you will pay a price for it.

It's free. No debts.

Half and half is one.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Shahrazad » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:42 am

It's free. No debts.


The price is attachment. Without attachment, there is no love.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:18 am

Shahrazad wrote:
It's free. No debts.


The price is attachment. Without attachment, there is no love.

But how does attachment manifest itself?

Let me take a step back and return to why I started this thread.

It may be that love itself is not an emotion, and that attachment is the emotion that love can predicate. In my situation I was more than 27 years removed from this person. I believe I have functioned fully as well during this time as I did before I met her. My life feels better now, very much like it did 27 years ago. The love did not die or go anywhere. Where has the attachment been? Where is it now?
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby baulz owt » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:11 pm

eat ur white potatoes and stfu. be a real american
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby divine focus » Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:14 am

Shahrazad wrote:
It's free. No debts.


The price is attachment. Without attachment, there is no love.

Without connection, there is no love. Freedom enhances connection, since you are more connected to yourself. Self is other; other is not Self.

Love self over all. What love is there that excludes itself?
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Is. » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:30 pm

Do you think it is worthwhile to distinguish between "human love" and "divine love"? Like, human, biological, sexual love is simply that strong urge emerging from evolution in order for our species to survive. You see X, strong emotions kick in, you go after her/him.

And divine love? When you see that there is no separate self, neither in you or anywhere else, divine love arises. As Nisargadatta says:

"When I see I am nothing,
that is wisdom.
When I see I am everything,
that is love."


(Note that I'm not saying that there's anything that is somehow not divine about biological, sexual love. Just making a distinction using words.)

On a conceptual level, should we try to somehow reconcile the two, or are they so vastly different trying is fruitless?
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby skipair » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:21 am

Is. wrote:Nisargadatta says:

"When I see I am nothing,
that is wisdom.
When I see I am everything,
that is love."

Very interesting, and I can relate to this especially after Kevin's Weininger video. Very cool.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Shahrazad » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:06 pm

broken,

It may be that love itself is not an emotion, and that attachment is the emotion that love can predicate.
I don't think love is an emotion. I think love is a drive.

The love did not die or go anywhere. Where has the attachment been? Where is it now?
Let us assume that your lover has an affair with another man and falls in love with him. Let us also assume that you find out. Then we will be able to see how your attachment manifests itself.

Or if you want, I can use a less disgusting example. Assume she dies after several years of lover bliss. Will you suffer? Or will you go on living your life as if nothing happened?
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:14 am

Shahrazad wrote:
bh wrote:The love did not die or go anywhere. Where has the attachment been? Where is it now?
Let us assume that your lover has an affair with another man and falls in love with him. Let us also assume that you find out. Then we will be able to see how your attachment manifests itself.

You are not answering either question, though. 1) Where has the attachment been? 2) Where is it now?
You are postulating a negative scenario. Why should we make your assumptions? I could assume I become horribly mangled in a highway accident this afternoon. I wouldn't like that. I can assure you I am more attached to being intact than I am attached to my lover.

The fact is that this scenario already happened. She married someone else 27 years ago. I agree I went through a detachment phase, but my love for her remained. I really did wish her well - I wished her better than she got, I can tell you that, because I wished her me. I am telling you it is different now. There is no anxiety that I could lose her to someone else. If I did, it would not be anywhere near as stressful as the first time. It is as if I have been inoculated against the attachment part of love.



Or if you want, I can use a less disgusting example. Assume she dies after several years of lover bliss. Will you suffer? Or will you go on living your life as if nothing happened?


Shah, you are just too funny. How about I use an even less disgusting example? Let's say she is masticated down to the gristle by a voracious army of red ants before my very eyes. Will I suffer?

Answer: I suspect I would feel whatever one feels in such a situation.

Imagine your life without memories. Is that what we are after? I have avoided attachments for years. And I have the empty memories to show for it. My memory is like a large roll of film that has been exposed to light; there are no images on most if it so now it feels useless. Who knows how much film you get?


I am taking one day at a time and appreciating the human touch as it should be appreciated. And there is not much chance my life will become encumbered by bliss, for which I am grateful.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Shahrazad » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:24 am

brokenhead,

The fact is that this scenario already happened. She married someone else 27 years ago. I agree I went through a detachment phase, but my love for her remained.


You are not answering either question, though. 1) Where has the attachment been? 2) Where is it now?
The attachment grew gradually smaller as time elapsed, until it got to almost zero. You were not getting the positive effects of love that I talked about earlier in this thread, so the attachment part could not survive forever. Attachment goes hand in hand with the chemical stuff, like what your body produces when you jump from an airplane. The love that remained was really in dormant form - like the seed of a plant can stay dormant for years and not lose its potential.

Your love is not dormant any more because you got your object back. The attachment is growing, either gradually or quickly.

You are postulating a negative scenario. Why should we make your assumptions? I could assume I become horribly mangled in a highway accident this afternoon. I wouldn't like that. I can assure you I am more attached to being intact than I am attached to my lover.
I make the assumptions because before you lose the object you are attached to, you may not realize you are attached. You seem to be in that position at this point.

I am telling you it is different now. There is no anxiety that I could lose her to someone else.
There need not be if there doesn't seem to be much risk of losing the drug, I mean her.

If I did, it would not be anywhere near as stressful as the first time. It is as if I have been inoculated against the attachment part of love.
I don't see how you can know this. Unless your love for this person is very low key, with no passion.

Answer: I suspect I would feel whatever one feels in such a situation.
That is no answer at all. But if you would suffer, you know you were attached.

Imagine your life without memories. Is that what we are after? I have avoided attachments for years. And I have the empty memories to show for it. My memory is like a large roll of film that has been exposed to light; there are no images on most if it so now it feels useless. Who knows how much film you get?
I don't get this. I have lived many years without romantic love, and I still have life memories. Good ones and bad ones, just like everybody else.

I am taking one day at a time and appreciating the human touch as it should be appreciated. And there is not much chance my life will become encumbered by bliss, for which I am grateful.
Why would you call bliss an encumbrance? What are you calling bliss?
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:21 am

Shahrazad wrote:The attachment grew gradually smaller as time elapsed, until it got to almost zero. You were not getting the positive effects of love that I talked about earlier in this thread, so the attachment part could not survive forever. Attachment goes hand in hand with the chemical stuff, like what your body produces when you jump from an airplane. The love that remained was really in dormant form - like the seed of a plant can stay dormant for years and not lose its potential.

But you are negating the conscious mind's power to identify the sources of attachment, as you have just done, and thereby to deny it its mindless grip.

I do feel passion - I am only 52 and everything works just fine. But it is different now. I have control over my passions.

A lot has to do with the way I view time. Before, love bore a strong component of dreams for the future, of a life that could be mine if I so desired. Now I do not dream upon the future, I plan for it. And I try to keep things modest. Usually, planning for tomorrow is enough.

Your love is not dormant any more because you got your object back. The attachment is growing, either gradually or quickly.

The love is growing again, and I like your dormancy analogy. It is right on the mark. But if the attachment is also growing, it feels like a different kind of attachment.

There need not be if there doesn't seem to be much risk of losing the drug, I mean her.

And I can go with this analogy as well. Not all drugs are addictive or habit-forming, and the ones that are vary greatly in this respect.
I don't get this. I have lived many years without romantic love, and I still have life memories. Good ones and bad ones, just like everybody else.

As do I - maybe here my own analogy failed. But I have friends and family in relationships, and while all of them have downs as well as ups, in some cases the ups vastly outweigh the downs. I have long envied those relationships. Yes, the men always think I have had it so good because I avoided the Tender Trap. There has never been any reason to disabuse them of this fallacy.

I did not live so many years alone by accident, Shah. I simply did not find what I had always had with this woman, which is true friendship.

Why would you call bliss an encumbrance? What are you calling bliss?


If ignorance is bliss, all I am saying is that I have worked hard to rid myself of ignorance, and I always will.

Tom Waits: Better Off Without a Wife
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Shahrazad » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:46 am

broken,

But you are negating the conscious mind's power to identify the sources of attachment, as you have just done, and thereby to deny it its mindless grip.
Perhaps I just don't believe you can have the cake and eat it too. But it is possible that this is only because I have not been able to avoid attachment without avoiding the source. So maybe you can.

Not all drugs are addictive or habit-forming, and the ones that are vary greatly in this respect.
The ones that aren't very addictive deliver very little in terms of highs. And vice versa.

I did not live so many years alone by accident, Shah. I simply did not find what I had always had with this woman, which is true friendship.
Your not finding what you wanted was an accident. And I never found someone who gets me. I guess conventional people have it much easier. Life sucks.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby uncledote » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:14 am

brokenhead wrote: Angelina Jolie is a monster, both in films and from what I read in the tabloids that I devour, she is a menace to society and should probably be locked up somewhere. I hate her lips. It looks like she was trying to give a blowjob to an industrial vacuum cleaner.


You don't take anything you read in the tabloids seriously, do you? Come on dude!
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:50 pm

uncledote wrote:
brokenhead wrote: Angelina Jolie is a monster, both in films and from what I read in the tabloids that I devour, she is a menace to society and should probably be locked up somewhere. I hate her lips. It looks like she was trying to give a blowjob to an industrial vacuum cleaner.


You don't take anything you read in the tabloids seriously, do you? Come on dude!

Henceforth, I resolve to broaden my horizons
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby divine focus » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:12 am

Shahrazad wrote:
Not all drugs are addictive or habit-forming, and the ones that are vary greatly in this respect.
The ones that aren't very addictive deliver very little in terms of highs. And vice versa.

Nicotine and alcohol are light-weight.

I did not live so many years alone by accident, Shah. I simply did not find what I had always had with this woman, which is true friendship.
Your not finding what you wanted was an accident. And I never found someone who gets me. I guess conventional people have it much easier. Life sucks.

lol No one is conventional, truly. You just happen to know this about yourself.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby ali.b » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:45 pm

broken,i tell you what,give it a shot the best shot you got even if there is a slight chance that you will experince "being in love" for even a short period of time.shahrzad may have memories of life,good ones,bad ones but they are in black and white and yours will be colorful.everything taste ,smell,SEEM totally different when in love,a GREAT deal of difference.
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Summer of '69

Postby Tomas » Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:47 am

brokenhead wrote:I am reuniting with a former lover after many years, and I am moving out of state to do so. To Boise, Idaho, in fact. At the ripe old age of fifty-two, we have found each other via the Internet. In fact, I found her last Christmas Eve, and we have been exchanging emails like there is no tomorrow. I never stopped loving her, and yet I feel like I am falling in love all over again. Can this be possible? What do y'all think?

Yes, it is, Uncle Brokie.

Ay!
Ain't no use in complainin',
When you got a job to do.
Spent my evenin's down at the drive-in,
And that's when I met you, yeah!

Standin' on your mama's porch,
You told me that you'd wait forever.
Oh, and when you held my hand,
I knew that it was now or never.
Those were the best days of my life.

Summer of '69 - Live in Lisbon
youtube video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTdD1QqsrfI

Run To You - Live at Slane Castle, Ireland
tube vid > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bqkrqZ758s

Have You Ever Really Loved A Woman?
tube vid > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq2KgzKETBw

.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby mensa-maniac » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:19 am

brokenhead wrote:I am reuniting with a former lover after many years, and I am moving out of state to do so. To Boise, Idaho, in fact. At the ripe old age of fifty-two, we have found each other via the Internet. In fact, I found her last Chritmas Eve, and we have been exchanginging emails like there is no tomorrow. I never stopped loving her, and yet I feel like I am falling in love all over again. Can this be possible? What do y'all think?


"I don't know how I can lose"

With love you cannot lose, instead you choose!

Love never dies if two doves fly together!

When one dove lets go, the other dove can no longer fly, he longs for her return, "if it comes back it is yours, if it doesn't it never was"

"If you love something, set it free
If it comes back it is yours,
If it doesn't, it never was"

What is Love

A yearning
A burning, a desire to love
A feeling intense from the God above
The God within you, the feeling is grand
To love one another is the law of the land
Express it, receive it, accept it too
Responding to another is what to do
For they see a something inside of you
Similarities connect a couple of two
Intimacy is the level of love
You share with each other creating two dove
A two-way street where respect is earned
But when it is lost the dove is burned
An apology is needed and the love is returned
The dove are in love and the desire is yearned
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Great Day

Postby Tomas » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:10 am

mensa-maniac wrote:
brokenhead wrote:I am reuniting with a former lover after many years, and I am moving out of state to do so. To Boise, Idaho, in fact. At the ripe old age of fifty-two, we have found each other via the Internet. In fact, I found her last Chritmas Eve, and we have been exchanginging emails like there is no tomorrow. I never stopped loving her, and yet I feel like I am falling in love all over again. Can this be possible? What do y'all think?


"I don't know how I can lose"

With love you cannot lose, instead you choose!

Love never dies if two doves fly together!

When one dove lets go, the other dove can no longer fly, he longs for her return, "if it comes back it is yours, if it doesn't it never was"

"If you love something, set it free
If it comes back it is yours,
If it doesn't, it never was"

What is Love

A yearning
A burning, a desire to love
A feeling intense from the God above
The God within you, the feeling is grand
To love one another is the law of the land
Express it, receive it, accept it too
Responding to another is what to do
For they see a something inside of you
Similarities connect a couple of two
Intimacy is the level of love
You share with each other creating two dove
A two-way street where respect is earned
But when it is lost the dove is burned
An apology is needed and the love is returned
The dove are in love and the desire is yearned

You tell'm Donna. You should know Idaho sucks, big time! Shazam

Oh, by the way .. Brokenhead morphed into CousinBasil. As if you didn't know ;-)

You're intuition is mahhvelous .. simply mahhhh.........

PS - Pull over here, we're stayin' the night.

She said, "Pull over here, we're stayin' the night."

It was a great day to be alive!
Don't run to your death
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby GodsDaughter1 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:29 am

brokenhead wrote:
prince wrote:
prince wrote:
brokenhead wrote:I don't see how I can lose.


I Can.


I'm sure DQ can leave this thread as a humiliator of fuckwits exactly like you.
OK, that's fine by me. How is it that I am supposed to get humiliated? I make the move, my life turns to shit? My life is about to get better, you loser. I'll tell you what happens. You're on.


GodsDaughter says: Quiet down children, Brokenhead didn't stir-up all the shit you created, what he has to say is not shit, it is a perfectly good to talk about love. Go for it Brokenhead, you've got nothing to lose in accepting her love and giving her yours. It takes two Dove to fly together, one is incomplete alone. That's why humanity and animals come in pairs--to go forth and multiply!

GodsDaughter says: Love is a time humanity shows itself from a light of goodness within.
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Re: Great Day

Postby GodsDaughter1 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:59 am

Tomas wrote:
mensa-maniac wrote:
brokenhead wrote:I am reuniting with a former lover after many years, and I am moving out of state to do so. To Boise, Idaho, in fact. At the ripe old age of fifty-two, we have found each other via the Internet. In fact, I found her last Chritmas Eve, and we have been exchanginging emails like there is no tomorrow. I never stopped loving her, and yet I feel like I am falling in love all over again. Can this be possible? What do y'all think?


"I don't know how I can lose"

With love you cannot lose, instead you choose!

Love never dies if two doves fly together!

When one dove lets go, the other dove can no longer fly, he longs for her return, "if it comes back it is yours, if it doesn't it never was"

"If you love something, set it free
If it comes back it is yours,
If it doesn't, it never was"

What is Love

A yearning
A burning, a desire to love
A feeling intense from the God above
The God within you, the feeling is grand
To love one another is the law of the land
Express it, receive it, accept it too
Responding to another is what to do
For they see a something inside of you
Similarities connect a couple of two
Intimacy is the level of love
You share with each other creating two dove
A two-way street where respect is earned
But when it is lost the dove is burned
An apology is needed and the love is returned
The dove are in love and the desire is yearned

You tell'm Donna. You should know Idaho sucks, big time! Shazam

Oh, by the way .. Brokenhead morphed into CousinBasil. As if you didn't know ;-)

You're intuition is mahhvelous .. simply mahhhh.........

PS - Pull over here, we're stayin' the night.

She said, "Pull over here, we're stayin' the night."

It was a great day to be alive!



GodsDaughter says: It's great to be alive even when I'm sad, because I realize my sadness will flee quickly by the next day. I seize the moment of sadness, grasp it, because without it one wouldn't realize happiness. I've come to realize that suicide is not worth the thought, so I dismiss it as a poison to my nature.

GodsDaughter says: What do you mean BrokenHead morphed into CousinBasil?
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Tomas » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:52 am

David Quinn wrote:Careful, don't go out on a limb there, |read|

Hard to believe, but this thread is actually going downhill as it goes along.

I'm now fascinated to see where it will end.

-

Pace yourself, David.

It's just getting started now that Brokenhead has morphed into the new, improved CousinBasil.

As far as where it will end is when (or if) CousinBasil (formerly Brokenhead) tells us all "why" he came back with his tail tucked 'tween his beta legs.

Prolly why he pulled a Talking Ass on the Forum and sock-puppeted into a poorly-reasoned but less-hidden alias.

Boo-hoo, his wording style belies his intentions.
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Re: Great Day

Postby Tomas » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:04 am

-Gods Daughter-
It's great to be alive even when I'm sad, because I realize my sadness will flee quickly by the next day.

-tomas-
Hey Baby. Tell me about it. True story, Darling. Last night I was dreaming my (literal) wife was cutting some hair off my head while we were about to turn out the lights. [I'm growing my hair out for 'locks of love' people with cancer-related issues chemo-radiation] Well, I just up and told her that that was that! I jump out of bed (unknown as to whether I had clothes on in the dream-state) stormed out somewhere and woke from the dream. Had serious regrets right quick but waking up was hard to do. Have thought whether one should apologize to her in the waking hours but because my rise-and-shine hour is an hour before hers I've been torn twixt and between whether I should discuss this "dream" with her. Thought it best to ask for your advice because you (and Sherazad) are rather famous for having intuition about matters of the heart ;-)


-Gods Daughter-
I seize the moment of sadness, grasp it, because without it one wouldn't realize happiness.

-tomas-
Tell ya what, Honey. It's cloudy, 57F and not gonna warm up here in North Dakota. I'm leaning towards telling her, will relate the story on our "date night" which occurs pretty much every Tuesday evening for decades now.


-Gods Daughter-
I've come to realize that suicide is not worth the thought, so I dismiss it as a poison to my nature.

-tomas-
Only happened once to me when I was an Army boy doing Uncle Sam's killing adventures in where else but VietNam. Popped the barrel end into my mouth and very gently started applying some index finger pressure and hesitated thinking "What the fuck?"

A few seconds later the regret hit and saw the wife and kids in my memory hole and that was that.

Went back to my usual GI Joe killing ways (but is there any other way?) About two weeks later was hit by some RPG shrapnel and a ticket home.


-Gods Daughter says- What do you mean BrokenHead morphed into CousinBasil?

-tomas-
Did you know there is a 'Brokenhead Indian Reservation' in Canada. Not too far from Idaho, no less.

As far as morphing goes depends whether Brokenhead/Cousinbasil cares to fill the folk in here at Genius Foundations [The Magi Group] on this melodrama called 'falling in love all over again.' What is the learning curve...? Huh?
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