What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.

What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:04 pm

I am reuniting with a former lover after many years, and I am moving out of state to do so. To Boise, Idaho, in fact. At the ripe old age of fifty-two, we have found each other via the Internet. In fact, I found her last Chritmas Eve, and we have been exchanginging emails like there is no tomorrow. I never stopped loving her, and yet I feel like I am falling in love all over again. Can this be possible? What do y'all think?
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Nick Treklis » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:12 pm

I think if you wanted to blog about your personal life you should have gone somewhere else.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Blair » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:17 pm

What is love?

It's a manifestation of our inner insecurity, inverted, projected outward.

A shared delusion is what it is. You love me with all my flaws, and I love you with all your flaws, and together we can get through this thing called life.

But the serpent bites to the last. It will get you too.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:27 pm

Nick Treklis wrote:I think if you wanted to blog about your personal life you should have gone somewhere else.

Fuck you, Nick. I try to keep my personal shit out of this forum. But some of us have lives.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby David Quinn » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:32 pm

Is there is a point to this thread? Otherwise, I'll delete it.

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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:33 pm

prince wrote:What is love?

It's a manifestation of our inner insecurity, inverted, projected outward.

A shared delusion is what it is. You love me with all my flaws, and I love you with all your flaws, and together we can get through this thing called life.

But the serpent bites to the last. It will get you too.

I hear you, Prince. I do have a duly negative outlook myself, most of the time.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:36 pm

Yeah, axe it, David. I wanted to hear the women GFers' reactions, but what the fuck. I just wanted some feedback.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Shahrazad » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:39 pm

Romantic love sucks. It will come to an end and you will pay a price for it.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby David Quinn » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:42 pm

brokenhead wrote:Yeah, axe it, David. I wanted to hear the women GFers' reactions, but what the fuck. I just wanted some feedback.

Why?

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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby |read| » Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:45 pm

Yes, this can be possible. I can't say much else without knowing any details of your specific situation, but you're probably wise not to post them here, as I'm sure you can see.

Not that I'm an expert, but it seems entirely possible to me that 2 people can care about each other, and contribute to each other's emotional well-being, in much the same way they can contribute to each other's knowledge by communicating. Of course, this comparison hinges on the assumption you haven't dismissed emotion itself as worthless delusion, which seems to be in vogue with this particular "enlightenment" crowd.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby David Quinn » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:01 pm

Careful, don't go out on a limb there, |read|

Hard to believe, but this thread is actually going downhill as it goes along.

I'm now fascinated to see where it will end.

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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby |read| » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:21 pm

Careful? Limb? It's going downhill, and you're fascinated? I'm a bit confused by your cryptic remarks.

Anyway, I want to give brokenhead at least one vote of confidence. Caution is always prudent, but good things also frequently involve an element of risk. It takes guts to make a major move in life. It's easy to be pessimistic about love, but it's hard to have enough confidence in yourself and your judgment of others to take a chance on a relationship. I respect your courage and your positivity, and I sincerely hope it works out, brokenhead.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Nick Treklis » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:32 pm

|read| wrote:It's easy to be pessimistic about love


If it's so easy then how come I've never met someone who has not built their hopes, dreams, and aspirations on it?

|read| wrote:but it's hard to have enough confidence in yourself and your judgment of others to take a chance on a relationship.


Again, it doesn't seem very difficult considering everyone and their mom is doing just that.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Shahrazad » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:34 pm

read,

It's easy to be pessimistic about love, but it's hard to have enough confidence in yourself and your judgment of others to take a chance on a relationship.
It's much easier to let yourself be carried by the high produced by love, and take the big risk, not because you're bold, but because the high is so strong that it will nullify your reason. I find love to be much more addictive than alcohol (don't know about drugs -- never tried them).

Saying that he who goes for love is bold is like saying that a drug addict is bold for risking his life for his drug.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby |read| » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:47 pm

I think what is difficult and what is easy is very much a product of each of our individual characters and previous life experiences. For some love is a the easy, default option, and for others it is the most difficult challenge. The former have a tendency embrace relationships when they probably shouldn't, and it may be difficult for them to stand alone. The latter have a tendency to avoid relationships even when they have the potential to be the best thing in their lives. Each probably finds it hard to believe the other exists. Personally, I'm in the latter category, and I find it hard to believe love is easy for anyone. Nevertheless, I've met people for whom love does appear to be easy, so I accept the fact that there are people different than me.

My read on brokenhead is that he falls in the latter category also, and that he's reaching out for support as he musters his courage. I could be wrong, though; I may be projecting my own viewpoint.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Shahrazad » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:07 pm

read,

From what broken said, he has been in love with the same woman all or most of his life. Sounds to me like it's pretty easy for him.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby |read| » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:16 pm

Being in love and making a relationship work are 2 different things. But maybe you have more background information than I do. I guess my generalized advice would be determine which option feels easier and more comfortable, and then look critically at your own motivations - are you choosing the easy option, and if so, why?
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Nick Treklis » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:33 pm

Why are you so focused on whether something is easy or hard, as opposed to reasonable or unreasonable, moral or immoral, selfish or selfless, wise or foolish? To me it just sounds like you're on some ego trip about doing what you perceive to be the hardest thing to do just because it's hard.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby |read| » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:44 pm

Quite the opposite. In order to decide whether or not something is truly reasonable, we need to look at our own biases, and compensate for them. The easy thing may look completely reasonable at first, but perhaps not so after we acknowledge that it is indeed the easy thing. As you say, the converse is also possible - some people may have a bias toward seeing the harder thing as more reasonable. My point is we need to identify this bias before we can decide what is reasonable.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Nick Treklis » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:20 pm

|read| wrote:In order to decide whether or not something is truly reasonable, we need to look at our own biases, and compensate for them.


What does it mean to compensate for one's bias? What if one has no bias, meaning one is not attached to any particular point of view and is able to think and behave logically regardless of the situation? Wouldn't this be a much more complete and effective route to ensure one is 100% accurate in deciding whether a thing, thought, or individual is reasonable?

|read| wrote:The easy thing may look completely reasonable at first, but perhaps not so after we acknowledge that it is indeed the easy thing.


How would acknowledging something as easy help us figure out if it's reasonable?

|read| wrote:As you say, the converse is also possible - some people may have a bias toward seeing the harder thing as more reasonable.


Reason has nothing to do with it if one is simply and easily choosing to do something based on whether they perceive it as easy or hard.

|read| wrote:My point is we need to identify this bias before we can decide what is reasonable.


Isn't the act of uncovering our biases and eliminating them an act of reason? That is, wont it help us make logical decisions instead of delusional ones?
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:29 pm

|read| wrote:Not that I'm an expert, but it seems entirely possible to me that 2 people can care about each other, and contribute to each other's emotional well-being, in much the same way they can contribute to each other's knowledge by communicating. Of course, this comparison hinges on the assumption you haven't dismissed emotion itself as worthless delusion, which seems to be in vogue with this particular "enlightenment" crowd.

Thanks, |read|. This sounds level-headed to me.

FWIW, I believe it is foolish to dismiss "emotion." Because few people who try to dismiss emotion even have a clue as to what it is. Emotion is part and parcel of what every person has to face during their time on earth. If you dismiss it, ignore it, belittle it, or otherwise maltreat it, it will respond in kind and make your life miserable. The best thing, I find, is to learn how to control it. And I do not think of love as an emotion.

Shahrazad wrote:Romantic love sucks. It will come to an end and you will pay a price for it.
You know, Shah, you are right. It did come to an end already, about 30 years ago. Because we did not know how to handle it. She got married and I never saw the point if I was not going to marry her, she was my best mate. Why be tethered to anyone? Because the relationship ended, but not the love. We still love each other and can finish each other's sentences and all that happy horseshit. So, Shah, the price has already been paid. I have not loved anyone else except for one person a dozen years ago who was the quintessential Woman of the QRS description. That was a total disaster.

So I have paid already. Now it is time to get something for my payment. She is leaving a marriage that did not work, and I have nothing to lose.

She was my best friend growing up, in the late teens/early twenties. Neither of us are wide-eyed innocents, and we are proceeding as carefully as we can. I don't see how I can lose.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:33 pm

I thought you were going to kill this thread, David.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Blair » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:13 pm

brokenhead wrote:I don't see how I can lose.


I Can.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby Blair » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:21 pm

prince wrote:
brokenhead wrote:I don't see how I can lose.


I Can.


I'm sure DQ can leave this thread as a humiliator of fuckwits exactly like you.
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Re: What is Love? Or did we do this before?

Postby brokenhead » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:12 pm

prince wrote:
prince wrote:
brokenhead wrote:I don't see how I can lose.


I Can.


I'm sure DQ can leave this thread as a humiliator of fuckwits exactly like you.
OK, that's fine by me. How is it that I am supposed to get humiliated? I make the move, my life turns to shit? My life is about to get better, you loser. I'll tell you what happens. You're on.
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