Determinism Evades Moral Responsibility

[Animus]

So, recently I am having a debate and an individual, who has no shortage of contempt for modern creationist arguments says

"Are those who advocate a deterministic view of human behaviour simply using philosophical arguments to avoid responsibility for their actions?"

another responds

"No - I think they use " psychobabble " to evade responsibility. It's more fashionably scientific to be able to blame your parents for being a jerk ! To my mind it is fundamentally wrong to argue from an a priori position that one's behaviour is due to externalized causes."

Ironically, when creationists advance the argument that Darwin's theory is an excuse to evade moral responsibility they see it for the absurdity that it is.

I offer reasons why this is not the case, but I also offer a counter-criticism, that Free-Will itself actually evades moral responsibility. It is as follows:

Why Free-Will Actually Evades Responsibility

Free-Will evades responsibility on numerous fronts:



First of all, no free-willist has ever been able to explain how free-will works and by the very definition of free-will cannot be explained. Free-Willists evade the responsibility of explaining Free-Will and providing evidence for it.



Secondly, within a determinist framework an individuals actions continue their causal influence for eternity, affecting the thoughts, feelings and actions of individuals around them, thus making consideration of one's actions important to moral responsibility within a society. Free-Will suggests that any and all actions performed by other individuals has no determining quality on the minds of other individuals and is thus irrelevant. Free-Will suggests an individual is not responsible for the consequences of their actions on the thoughts, emotions and actions of other individuals.



Thirdly, within a Free-Willist framework the society at large is not responsible in any way for the actions of individuals making social policies and programs futile and society devoid of any moral obligations to the individual.



Thoughts?

[Nick]

Why would simply recognizing the truth that free will doesn't exist necessarily mean that one is trying to evade moral responsibility? In my view, understanding and remaining open to truth is the most moral way to behave. To deny the truth because of some egotistical need to believe one is on a moral high ground is the real evasion of moral responsibility.

[sue hindmarsh]

Nick,

My understanding of what Animus is saying is that those who are anti-causation - those "Free-Willists" - are the ones evading "moral responsibility" because believing in free-will as they do, they are, as Animus describes, stating by their belief "that any and all actions performed by other individuals has no determining quality on the minds of other individuals and is thus irrelevant".

Animus:

Free-Will suggests an individual is not responsible for the consequences of their actions on the thoughts, emotions and actions of other individuals.

within a Free-Willist framework the society at large is not responsible in any way for the actions of individuals making social policies and programs futile and society devoid of any moral obligations to the individual.

And then he describes the alternative:

within a determinist framework an individuals actions continue their causal influence making consideration of one's actions important to moral responsibility within a society.

within a determinist framework an individuals actions continue their causal influence for eternity, affecting the thoughts, feelings and actions of individuals around them, thus making consideration of one's actions important to moral responsibility within a society.

Your question about why "simply recognizing the truth that free will doesn't exist necessarily mean that one is trying to evade moral responsibility" is, as Animus' logic describes, due to people's minds being so fried by their fantasies they'll believe any old rot - such as, free-will.

[Nick]

My understanding of what Animus is saying is that those who are anti-causation - those "Free-Willists" - are the ones evading "moral responsibility" because believing in free-will as they do, they are, as Animus describes, stating by their belief "that any and all actions performed by other individuals has no determining quality on the minds of other individuals and is thus irrelevant".

Yeah that makes sense. Kind of like if a person scams another person out of some money and that person takes their own life. The scammer might be put on trial for being an accomplice in their suicide in addition to just pulling a scam, and their defense might be that they had no involvement in that person's death because they had "free will" to make the decision to commit suicide. In all actuality the victim probably would never had committed suicide were it not for being scammed, so the whole idea of free will goes flying out the window.

[Joe-Draper]

Determinism Evades Moral Responsibility

Determinism is more important than Moral Responsibility in that without
the determination to respond to moral responsibility, neither would matter.

Without determinism uselessness would occur.

Q. Moral responsibility to who?
A. To everyone

Everyone has to be considerate of others, to be morally responsible to others is to help them in a crisis.
Humans are naturally morally responsible, but not all humans are determined. Determination is the key to
erradicating boredom, without determination one would not grow productively, one would
stay at an arrested development.

Determinism is what makes a person move forward, moral responsibility stops a person in their tracks to
accommodate morality.

Should a person put their own determination on the back burner to accommodate moral responsibility?

Moral responsibility is one's responsibility to behave one's self morally speaking. Let's not ever forget
Freedom of Speech, which is a great example of exercising one's behavior when not slurring racism
is considered.

The poisoning of people's minds is something that could be related to moral responsibility or the lack of,
groups do this--like the blind lead the blind. One hates this or that and promotes his hatred to the others
poisoning their minds--but this can only happen if they are no-minds--followers/sheep.