The Relationship between Enlightenment and Mental Illness

[DivineIntercourse]

This type of combination may be interpreted as being at odd ends of eachother and therefore persuade the appearance of a cancellation taking place; the said enlightenment/Mental illness components would then be destined to compete as a duo with two opposing purposes - the effects including: a disruption of function vs an enhancement of function.

Depending on the potency and exact effects...

Fuck, there it goes again...

I was just wondering what you think the effects/implications of mental illness and enlightenment would have... ? In another thread, Dan posted something about only physical... **** ...effects being experienced. This puzzles me. I'm sure you can guess as to why... (the mental illness is the result of physical effects... "Ooh"...? -> Was that Dan being sneaky yet again!?)

Anyway: there's unfortunately no cure for a mental illness... So... what do you think?

[DivineIntercourse]

I see problems... Whatever... Your insights would be like a warm cup-a-coco on a cold night!:)

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Mental illness is not just one thing. There are a wide range of nervous ailments that have different origins, areas of the brain they effect, and symptoms. Even in a single type of disorder, the way the ailment manifests varies from person to person. Many types of disorders are treatable to varying degrees. The majority of people with mental illnesses are indistinguishable from people without them, unless they choose to reveal their medical history.

You will have to be specific. Which mental illness effects enlightenment?

[Cory Duchesne]

I was just wondering what you think the effects/implications of mental illness and enlightenment would have... ? In another thread, Dan posted something about only physical... **** ...effects being experienced. This puzzles me.

Dan was talking specifically about bi-polar disorder. If you're not well informed about what this illness is about, then yes, you will be puzzled by his comment.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Using Dan's example, bipolar disorder can have an influence. During an episode, a sufferer loses the ability to reason clearly. However, there are two main ways a person can deal with the disorder when treated: they can say "I am a maniac" or "I have bipolar disorder". In the first case, it becomes part of their identity, and thus reinforces the ego. In the second case, it is like living with high blood pressure. Appropriate precautions are taken, attachments are not invented, and enlightenment is still possible.

[DivineIntercourse]

I appreciate the responses.

You will have to be specific.

How?

Which mental illness effects enlightenment?

How can anyone be sure?

[Trevor Salyzyn]

DI,
Pick one. It doesn't really matter. If you think that mental illness has an effect on enlightenment, then single out a mental illness. There's plenty to choose from. Alzheimer's disorder, schizophrenia, autism, sociopathic personality disorder, attention deficit disorder... whichever.

[messenger-of-God]

How about Schizoaffective disorder, which is according to the Docs. a mood swing.

Yesterday I wrote an excellent article on my experience dealing with this mental illness,
but, I lost it to time expired. So it's out in cyberspace somewhere.

I believe I am amongst many other guinea-pigs for experimental study purposes for future use.

Some drugs enhance a persons brain activity, while other drugs slow the subject's brain activity down,
while other drugs are aimed for different purposes.

My brain produces to much dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter. A prescription drug called fluanxol
controls the measurement of dopamine released. So essentially the Docs are toying with the natural flow of my
brain chemistry.

This natural producing chemical dopamine in my brain is responsible for the europhia which is being robbed from me by
their prescription drug fluanxol. I feel nothing, I feel no real anger, I feel no real happiness, I feel much of nothing, but
I do feel content. I feel completely detached from my feelings. I only begin to feel again after 2 weeks over the due date to be injected again.

To experience feelings or emotions again after being masked for many years is so unpleasant,
that I choose to continue being injected once-a-month. But, it's not really a choice I have,
because this drug fluanxol is an addictive one.

I lied on my couch for seven months trying to withdraw from this drug, the withdrawal symptoms were overwhelming
so much in fact, that I could no longer abstain from it. It became a necessity to get my injection, and not
because I needed it to control the lable inflicted upon me, but because I was severely addicted to the drug fluanxol.

My feelings, or emotions, have been tampered with, with the use of this prescription drug fluanxol. It baffles me
to think how Docs, can prescribe an antisychotic drug for a mood swing.

Before ever taking this drug 12 years ago, I wasn't able to concentrate, or focus on any subject. Everything was
rapid and still is, even with the taking of this drug. My speech is rapid, my movement is rapid, my walking is rapid,
and my thinking is rapid.

I believe a person can be enlightened more than once, I am living experience. Before I was out-of-control insane,
now I am in-control insane.

I now have the ability to remove myself from a potential threat, instead of being just the instigator of it. I instigate
situations, just to solve the problem I created. Now I've learned to instigate constructively for beneficial purposes.

Insanity can be developed as I know from empiracal knowledge, if a person doesn't learn from their insanity, then it just
developes uncontrolled behaviour throughout the years. But, when a person learns from insanity,
they have chosen to reach higher than the grips of Satan, loosening the bondage of evil, allowing the light of Christ to shine within them.

Thus, coming to a complete balance-of-the-mind where happiness has been found, where living with nothing is all you
need. The Word of God sates your soul, sates your desires, sates your everyday living, bringing to you a whole balanced happy person.

I can write more, but I must stop now, for interuptions plague at me.

[messenger-of-God]

My relationship with mental illness is that of influence over the people,
power-of-persuasion, controlling others--dominating them, mentally abusing them,
while at the same time loving the insufferable bores.

I create problems just to solve them. I deliberately instigate situations
for the purpose of making things better.

If the Docs lable me with a mental illness, then I'm the best at it, which
I then turn into a mental skillness.

My mental skillness is that of uncanny insight, visions, awareness, and high intellect.

[DivineIntercourse]

The above is a good example of why I don't just write everything that comes to my mind.


How can one be sure that meds/or other treatment options are the right choice to make? In mental illness there is evidence that the brain isn't working correctly, but whether or not, this is enough evidence, cannot/ is not yet known (that's the bottom line!). History shows some rotten treatments/cures - does one not need to learn from it? (can what is learned about then be true for now?). Obviously it has improved, but it's still a case of control and experimentation. Now that may be true. But it's also true that doctors do care about their patients (for whatever it's worth), and the meds/treatments help some people. Not all benefit, some don't respond while others harm themselves. I'm not completely satisfied that all people diagnosed as mentally ill: 1) are truly mentally ill, and 2) should be taking pills/engaging in brainwash sessions. I would only takes meds/treatment if it was the only step guaranteed to ensure a much more worthwhile existence.

Maybe I'm unnecessarily being paranoid, one never knows. A very simple example of my paranoia: Control for profit. It happens all the time. When and where, and to what extent is the real issue!

[messenger-of-God]

I would prefer to be in your position than mine.

To be able to function with emotions is ultimately living life, but to be detached
from emotions is learning to live without them.

Now that I've been on these drugs for 12 years, to withdraw from them
might be a detriment to my health. Perhaps, I could become a mental
deficient. Perhaps, it would be totally dangerous to withdraw from this
drug.

Before the drug prescription, I was a high energy person, feeling quite euphoric,
but also, I was a scatter-brain who couldn't focus on any subject. Now, I am still
high energy, but with no euphoric feelings, but am now able to focus completely.

The lessening of euphoria is not to say I can't laugh, because a new found laughter has been discovered
deep within me. I believe I'm unblocking the barriers of the drugs, and euphoria is slipping
through once again, but in very small measures.

I believe Doctors do indeed care about their patients, but most people care about the contents
of their wallets too!

What is mental illness?

It is years of developed behavioral patterns that has gone unnoticed for to long. The behavior worsens
without medication, and lessens with the help of prescription drugs. But, control is the key word here,
to be able to control ones-self is difficult with mental illness. It takes many years of trying to control
the mental illness, which I believe stems from childhood environment.

Mental illness is a learned thing inflicted upon the victim. It is born from mental illness.

The victim watched in horror her daddy axing the door down, to kill her mommy laying drunk on the bed.
The sounds of splitting wood echoes in her fragile mind, as she witnesses the shattering of the door, the bastard
raises the axe over his head, and with one sweep swings it down, only to be stopped in mid-air...

Now what child wouldn't be affected by witnessing this scene?

But, it is only one bad scene among many good scenes, thus making it bareable to survive in a dysfunctional family.

[DivineIntercourse]

I would prefer to be in your position than mine.

And what position is that?

Perhaps, I could become a mental deficient.

Isn't emotionlessness considered a mental deficiency by the mental health community (clinicians, psychiatrists, educators, etc)?

Mental illness is a learned thing inflicted upon the victim. It is born from mental illness.

What do you mean? Some people experience the worse shit imaginable and never suffer much. Others, on the other hand, almost get hit by a car and end up killing themselves because the panic attacks are too extreme. There's more to it, much more. It's like saying that all psychopaths had difficult childhoods. The reality is that somethings appear to happen for no reason at all. It's contributory factor but only if the predisposition exists.

But, it is only one bad scene among many good scenes, thus making it bareable to survive in a dysfunctional family.

Every family has their problems.

Pick one. It doesn't really matter. If you think that mental illness has an effect on enlightenment, then single out a mental illness. There's plenty to choose from. Alzheimer's disorder, schizophrenia, autism, sociopathic personality disorder, attention deficit disorder... whichever.

Can you please define mental illness and enlightenment? Are you mentally ill? If so, how are the meds working for you? Have they changed you (in what way?)?

During an episode, a sufferer loses the ability to reason clearly.

What is this episode and why does it take place? It is odd in that the episodes come and go. Obviously a true mental illness would have biological causes. It's an X-disease. Many people with mental illnesses have undiagnosed known diseases.

In the first case, it becomes part of their identity, and thus reinforces the ego. In the second case, it is like living with high blood pressure. Appropriate precautions are taken, attachments are not invented, and enlightenment is still possible.

I don't see the difference.

If you're not well informed about what this illness is about, then yes, you will be puzzled by his comment.

Would you mind explaining it to me please?

Mental illness is not just one thing. There are a wide range of nervous ailments that have different origins, areas of the brain they effect, and symptoms. Even in a single type of disorder, the way the ailment manifests varies from person to person. Many types of disorders are treatable to varying degrees. The majority of people with mental illnesses are indistinguishable from people without them, unless they choose to reveal their medical history.

Most of the DSM is BS. They'd rather treat than cure - and talk therapy re-enforces the need for treatment.

The majority of people with mental illnesses are indistinguishable from people without them, unless they choose to reveal their medical history.

How would you know? I think that stupidity is more of a mental illness than most certifiable mental illnesses.

[messenger-of-God]

I hear what you are saying when you say, how can one be sure that meds/or other treatment options are the right choice to make.

I can be sure that I've done the right thing despite the loss of emotions, sexual desire, and bone degenerative. I only know this by experiencing it. I would rather not feel emotion, then to feel it. I've concluded this only after experiencing years without feeling my emotions, then suddenly feeling them when I'm way over-due for my injection. It feels so odd, to feeeeeeeel again. I don't like it. So I quickly get to the Docs office and get injected.

If the meds are indeed the thief of my emotions, then drugs are no good to consume into the human body! So community
Mental Health needs to do some more research.

The drugs control people--I never ever in my life needed to be controlled by anyone, before I came onto the internet. I controlled myself pretty well in life, except through the insanity, then the verbal abuse would bring my victim to surrender to my wit.

It matters not to me in the least who opposes me, I'm perfectly fine with opposition, I certainly don't feeeeeeel threatened.

I know answers intuitively and from empirical knowledge, book knowledge is only someone else's ideas, I prefer to use my own ideas. Originality of ideas is best when dealing in the written field.

Stupidity is not a word I fear, actually, I fear no one. I have literally been enlightened from the bondage of stupidy
to oneness with my Lord and Heavenly Father, and if you call that stupid, then stupidity must be your greatest trait!

Judge no one! Just because some psyche lables a person with a mental illness, doesn't mean the person is stupid, in
most cases it means they are brilliant!

[DivineIntercourse]

If you're not gonna answer my questions then what's the point of posting? Your posts don't make any sense.

[Tomas]

If you're not gonna answer my questions then what's the point of posting? Your posts don't make any sense.

One way to snap out of the doldrums is to go to bed at a normal hour. Staying up half the night in front of a computer screen isn't my idea of normalcy.

PS - I still think Dan & Company should have an "emergency moderator" (on-call) for all the Sad Sacks out there in cyberland. He/she could sit-in for 10-hour segments..

Any volunteers?

All job applicants would be interviewed at 2:50 AM, local time.


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[Alex Jacob]

Is there any reason why the mentally ill cannot spell correctly? Here, this can help.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Can you please define mental illness and enlightenment?

Mental illness is what the phenomena of madness has become since it came under the jurisdiction of medicine.

Enlightenment is the undeluded understanding of reality.

Are you mentally ill? If so, how are the meds working for you? Have they changed you (in what way?)?

I'm not obligated to answer these questions. But yes, and the medication is working just fine, and they allow me to function at what I call "normal".

What is this episode and why does it take place? It is odd in that the episodes come and go.

As I understand it, bipolar disorder is caused by the brain's inability to regulate important neurotransmitters. Sometimes the brain is flushed with these for long periods (mania), whereas othertimes they are practically non-existent (depression). For quite some time, it was diagnosed as two separate ailments, and thus resisted treatment. IIRC, first generation treatments only came out in the 70's. Few people take the first generation treatment (lithium) any more. It's kind of dangerous: a last resort.

I don't see the difference.

One approach is egotistical; the other is not.

Most of the DSM is BS. They'd rather treat than cure - and talk therapy re-enforces the need for treatment.

You can blame patients for the BS in the DSM: psychiatry relies largely on patient report in interviews. Even with extremely obvious ailments (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder), I'm sure most psychiatrists wish they had better tools for just looking at what's going on in the brain -- let alone getting rid of the causes altogether. It's only technologically feasible to apply chemical band-aids to the worst of it. When someone finds a way to reverse the effects of schizophrenia (which begin in the womb), they won't hide it. Nobel Prize, right there.

How would you know?

One in five people you meet has a mental illness. Tell me, how many of those did you correctly identify?

[messenger-of-God]

Just because you don't understand my posts does not mean they don't make sense.

And why do you think they don't make sense?

Anyone above normalacy would seem a bit strange anyway.

I would not regard myself as mentally ill anymore. I am clear-minded, balanced, and a little above nomalacy.

What is normal?

Normal is not pacing the floors like a madman
Normal is not thoughts racing
Normal is not 3 digit IQ it's 2 digit IQ
Normal is not rapid talk, rapid walk, rapid thought

I experience all of these, so I am not totally normal, but I am mentally competent.

I look normal, I act normal, but I am above it a wee bit.

And 2:40 am your time is daylight time here, so I don't stay up all night at all, so wake up toad-brains.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

mog,
The ideal treated patient has mental states that are normal for them, not in a social sense. If someone is claiming they are someone else, or have suddenly developed special powers, or are having difficulty performing easy tasks like chores, then it's not much of an inductive leap to say that they are not experiencing normal functioning.

[Tomas]

mog,
The ideal treated patient has mental states that are normal for them, not in a social sense. If someone is claiming they are someone else, or have suddenly developed special powers, or are having difficulty performing easy tasks like chores, then it's not much of an inductive leap to say that they are not experiencing normal functioning.

Are messenger and divine the same person (from Calgary, Alberta)?
Please, no high-powered medical mumbo-jumbo..

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[Trevor Salyzyn]

tomas, I dunno. It looked like messenger was having difficulty separating the two types of normal -- social and personal -- and I was trying to give him a hand. (The medical mumbo-jumbo is a mix between Foucault's History of Madness, a textbook on Psychiatric Interview Processes, and personal history dealing with psychiatrists and patients in hospitals. I hope it doesn't sound too pretentious. I like to think of it as a step above the attitude of those vocal psychiatric patients that are convinced the real crazies are the doctors.)

[Tomas]

tomas, I dunno. It looked like messenger was having difficulty separating the two types of normal -- social and personal -- and I was trying to give him a hand. (The medical mumbo-jumbo is a mix between Foucault's History of Madness, a textbook on Psychiatric Interview Processes, and personal history dealing with psychiatrists and patients in hospitals. I hope it doesn't sound too pretentious. I like to think of it as a step above the attitude of those vocal psychiatric patients that are convinced the real crazies are the doctors.)

I guess Trev, the reason I ask is I responded to Divine Intercourse and messenger-of-god replies!

PS - I'll stay on the sidelines (this thread) and you all figger this one out.


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[Carl G]

One in five people you meet has a mental illness. Tell me, how many of those did you correctly identify?

I would estimate two out of five.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

You see double.
OneInFive.au and Canadian mental health statistics

Psychiatrists can have their "mental illness". Insane and mad work perfectly fine when I need to insult someone's judgement.

[DivineIntercourse]

Mental illness is what the phenomena of madness has become since it came under the jurisdiction of medicine.

And what do you think of that after considering the possible benefits/disadvantages?

Enlightenment is the undeluded understanding of reality.

I've heard that one before.

I'm not obligated to answer these questions. But yes, and the medication is working just fine, and they allow me to function at what I call "normal".

That wasn't meant for you, Trevor. You chose medication because it was the only option you saw. You were ill, someone thought for you (or maybe you had enough clarity to see that meds were the best choice). It appears it was the right thing to do at the time.

As I understand it, bipolar disorder is caused by the brain's inability to regulate important neurotransmitters. Sometimes the brain is flushed with these for long periods (mania), whereas othertimes they are practically non-existent (depression). For quite some time, it was diagnosed as two separate ailments, and thus resisted treatment. IIRC, first generation treatments only came out in the 70's. Few people take the first generation treatment (lithium) any more. It's kind of dangerous: a last resort.

I get the impression that you're sort of stuck in this kind of thinking: My brain's biology malfunctions, I have no control over this. Meds work towards fixing this biological/chemical error – hence, meds are the most effective option(?). I tend to neglect such views because they seem too... lopsided.

I agree that we are the results of that which the brain dictates. So if we suddenly think of a flower it's likely that there is some sort of a shift in the state of the brain beforehand in order to produce that mental image + the accompanying feelings/memories, and the like – as all this is happening the brain is constantly going through changes (which correspond exactly with whatever we're experiencing). It's very complicated. I know you know this.

Let's go on into what I've been thinking about. It seems reasonable. The worst that can happen is that you'll change my mind, if this happens then I should have been on meds all along and since the barrier that's stopping me from taking my meds now will have melted away, I'll have no other choice. It's win-win for me.

Take depression as an example: lack of serotonin, a chemical imbalance. The reasons for this as you've acknowledged aren't known well enough to indicate a cause. All we really know is that it happens. This is where my so-called fantasy comes into play and it dictates this: if we take out that chemical which makes us feel happy, we'll feel depressed until it's replenishes. Now, our brain controls this, but by no means does that mean that we're at its mercy and there's nothing we can do about it. I feel, we can develop methods to make ourselves feel better. Instead of succumbing to the depression and letting it take over our lives, we can make an attempt and more. Free will, however determined, is still free will. So in order to overcome the depression, the mentally ill person in a sense has an influence on the processes in control. Let me make this illustration: 3 people all develop depression, it's actually the same person but with different modes of thinking:

1)become depressed, no hope, etc. Outcome: severe depression
2)become depressed, make attempts to feel better, etc. Outcome: mild depression
3)become depressed, fight it, etc. Outcome: no signs of depression

The bottom line is: Mental illness is, to me, it seems like it's all an experiment to learn about the human brain (this isn't such a stretch). I wouldn't go as far in saying that it's one huge conspiracy for power rather it's all about gaining knowledge from the suffering. I don't believe that all who are diagnosed as mentally ill are necessarily destined to forever suffer unless they get appropriate treatment. It varies, but I also believe the the mental community do an injustice to those who come to them for help by throwing theories around, etc. The very existence (or lack thereof) of these theories may act as a catalyst which is further re-enforced by these “doctors”. Over the years the visits with mental health “professionals" has been unpleasant. It's not really surprising, because I was asking a lot of questions that they had no answers to yet their purpose was to put on a front that they had the answers – how else could they treat?

One approach is egotistical; the other is not.

Because one is treated as fact and the other isn't?

You can blame patients for the BS in the DSM: psychiatry relies largely on patient report in interviews. Even with extremely obvious ailments (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder), I'm sure most psychiatrists wish they had better tools for just looking at what's going on in the brain -- let alone getting rid of the causes altogether. It's only technologically feasible to apply chemical band-aids to the worst of it. When someone finds a way to reverse the effects of schizophrenia (which begin in the womb), they won't hide it. Nobel Prize, right there.

I'm sure you're aware how the DSM came to be. Even if there were zero people that appeared different (the geniuses/mentally ill) as opposed to being “normal”, people would still want to learn about the brain and create experiments and the like. Ever heard of (I don't know the word for it) people/animals act differently if they know that they're being observed (security mechanisim?). Well, by making people comfortable that they're not being observed they can gather much more valuable data (I would think so).

Nobel prize? I suppose it's possible, but I wouldn't be so sure. Whatever happened to being cynical? What if it didn't fit into their grand skeem (spelling?) of things. Just because it seems like a huge leap in reason doesn't mean it's not true. Based on what's out there it seems very likely.

Genetics – schizophrenia? There's an extremely weak link (I've heard of studies, but to my current knowledge, little has been discovered). Btw, that's an argument that has to do with nature vs nurture. Genetics is very complicated. I've read somewhere that genes can be turned on and off. Ever heard of Alopecia (hair loss) and how it “skips” generations? Well, that's misguiding, because it doesn't actually skip, rather it's not activated (or maybe the mutation didn't take place, I don't know). People experience problems with this world, some let it be, while others want to understand why. The mental illness industry creates stressors by something as simple as : parading mental illness as some sort of a disease similar to cancer/diabetes. Then, if this profession misdiagnoses a patient with it, it adds more stress, because they now finally have the answer for their discomfort/confusion (the search is over for some). One thing leads to another and before you know it they're imprisoned, when they fight back, they're infected with drugs by force, and eventually they may become half brain dead because of several 10's of 1000's of volts searing through their brain. This can happen to anyone. Put a genius under the appropriate circumstances and you've got a slobbering defect sitting motionless in a padded cell. Meanwhile he's being tested with the newest brand of drug in hopes that he'll reawaken. Right, that makes sense! Anyway, back to -> Obviously, a genetic component is involved.

One in five people you meet has a mental illness. Tell me, how many of those did you correctly identify?

How sick is that? I was talking personally. I have delusions that everyone knows that there's something wrong with me. This definitely doesn't help when I'm out in public. I know it's not true, but it served its purpose.

The ideal treated patient has mental states that are normal for them, not in a social sense. If someone is claiming they are someone else, or have suddenly developed special powers, or are having difficulty performing easy tasks like chores, then it's not much of an inductive leap to say that they are not experiencing normal functioning.

Do you ever get personal? Before I developed these symptoms, I started hanging out with the wrong types of people because I was interested in dabbling with drugs. The current friends which played tennis or completed homework during lunchtime weren't interested and I didn't care much about studying at that point, so... etc etc etc. Anyways, because of influences and the drug use, I started... changing... I started creating weird concepts that weren't accurate representations of reality and I started spending more and more time in my head, this became worse once I dropped out of school and became isolated. I don't want to get into that right now. The point is: I feel like I'm responsible for my life, this mental illness is my fault.