The Farce of Philosophical Rationalism

[Loki]

I was inspired by an exchange between Matt and Kevin on a different thread:

MG: I know this has been asked a million times, but it's just not clear to me. Why should we value absolute truth?

KS: You would only value it if you were dissatisfied with anything less.

And you would be dissatisfied with anything less if you didn't like being proven wrong, or if you didn't like making a fool of yourself, or if you didn't like experiencing avoidable suffering.

The key word here is 'dissatisfaction.' Also note how Kevin says repeatedly 'don't like'

Later Kevin responds to Matt:

MG: Being right doesn't put food on the table.

KS: But it feels good. And while it might not put much food on the table right now, in the long term you can reap a harvest

Notice how Kevin says 'feels good'

Reminds me of a lecture by the great Charles Sanders Pierce:

Men, many times fancy that they act from reason when in point of fact, the reasons they attribute to themselves are nothing but excuses which unconscious instinct invents to satisfy the teasing whys of the ego. The extent of this self delusion is such as to render philosophical rationalism a farce......Reason then appeals to sentiment in the last resort.......reason, for all the frills it customarily wears in vital crises, comes down upon its marrow bones to beg the help of instinct.

The rationalists who are convinced that feelings interfere with the most adaptive choices have the matter completely backwards. A reliance on logic alone, without the capacity to feel the anticipatory states of joy, guilt, sadness, or anxiety that might follow a particular judgment, would lead most people to do many, many more foolish things. Wise commentators on human nature have nominated emotion, not logic, as the basis for human civility and prudent selection of alternatives.

[mikiel]

Loki,
Don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent reply from the triumvirate. Their strategy in dealing with the "opposition" is to ignore us. (The head-in-the-sand tactic.)

The forum is a pretense of discussion of the subjects listed at the heading. It is actually obviously merely an instrument of indoctrination into the "QRS Philosophy" in which logic trumps emotion and transcendence is not even in the vocabulary of concepts relevant to enlightenment. (Case in point: my latest thread.)

[Tomas]

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Loki,

In your selected snippets of Matt and Kevin..

You have misquoted Kevin twice.

He says, "didn't like."

You instead claim he said, "don't like."

'do not' are miles from 'did not'..

Then, you say he says, "dissatisfaction".

Uh uh, he twice says, "dissatisfied".

As far as 'feels good' goes, he chose a proper phrase of two words for the short snip of conversation you have provided for us (me, the reader).

If it feels good, the long term of providing would/will return a hundred-fold. Reaping a plentiful harvest is always the endgame in all endeavors.



Perhaps you are going blind .. mind-wise.


Get your storyline straight.

(you musta gotten your ass kicked in debate class)

PS - Provide the thread URL, thanks.



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[Loki]

Kevin & Matt

[Tomas]

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-The Town Crybaby-
Don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent reply from the triumvirate.

-tomas-
First off, Mikiel, I guess you didn't read what Loki said, never mind Matt & Kevin's dialogue.




-The Town Crybaby-
Their strategy in dealing with the "opposition" is to ignore us.

-tomas-
Why step in a puddle of mud if it can be avoided.




-The Town Crybaby-
(The head-in-the-sand tactic.)

-tomas-
This musta happened to you when you about-drowned in Hawaii - you didn't see (because of the sand in BOTH your eyes) where Loki had misquoted Kevin three separate times.




-The Town Crybaby-
The forum is a pretense of discussion of the subjects listed at the heading.

-tomas-
David hasn't publicly put a leash on you, Mikiel.




-The Town Crybaby-
It is actually obviously merely an instrument

-tomas-
I smell a conspiracy theory coming...




-The Town Crybaby-
of indoctrination into the "QRS Philosophy"

-tomas-
There's a new unwieldly group here, fomenting dissention, they are the "ABC Philosophy/Cabal".




-The Town Crybaby-
in which logic trumps emotion

-tomas-
As it should...




-The Town Crybaby-
and transcendence is not even in the vocabulary of concepts

-tomas-
Cut out (most)-all the quote marks, ellipses, capitalization .. tis you'd a more-understood read :-/




-The Town Crybaby-
relevant to enlightenment.

-tomas-
Yes, that pure light...

Maybe in the next lifetime (and beyond).




-The Town Crybaby-
(Case in point: my latest thread.)

-tomas
May it rest in peace .. along with your head-in-the-sand.


Edited to remove "Loki," (as referring to the thread author) at the top

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[Loki]

Tomas,

Don't be a moron.

you didn't see (because of the sand in BOTH your eyes) where Loki had misquoted Kevin three separate times.

In the context of my point, there is no significant difference between 'didn't and don't - nor between dissatisfied and dissatisfaction.

Your just engaging in mindless nit-picking. The point I'm trying to get across is clear to anyone who isn't an imbecile.

Regards,

- Loki

PS: Your post formatting style sucks balls. Please take the time to learn how to use the quote feature properly.

Do you know how to make text appear in a box, like this?

[brokenhead]

It's a safe bet that Tomas knows how to use the quote feature. He prefers his style. At least he's consistent.

[mikiel]

It's a safe bet that Tomas knows how to use the quote feature. He prefers his style. At least he's consistent.

I'll give him consistency in the role of court jester/fool... verbally making goofy faces and sticking out his tongue at those in serious discussion.
I've yet to see an intelligent, substantial contribution.

(His pathos brings tears of compassion to my eyes!... Sometimes even makes me sob. Boo-hoo! Anybody got a handy hanky?)

[Loki]

I second that. Tomas is consistent in parody, gossip and shallow politicking. He doesn't have any interest in teaching or learning. He's always thumbing his nose, and engaging in worthless nit-picking.

[Tomas]

Kevin & Matt

Thanks

Warm Regards,
Tomas


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[Loki]

Tomas,

I apologize for being harsh. I was in the grip of my anger.

- Loki

[Tomas]

.


Loki,

We're cool.


Tomas



SHUT UP AND DRINK THE KOOL-AID
~ Barack Obama
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hUqhilguoPs/S ... arxist.JPG



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[mikiel]

Tomas,
I don't apologize, was not angry at all in my post and actually suspect that you are a brain-damaged moron with nothing better to do than mock conversations which are over your head on these boards.

PS:
Loki,
I think it was spineless cowardice of you to back off and eat crow just because you spoke (wrote) with the passion of radical honesty... which you mistook for 'shameful' anger... which we are conditioned to believe makes us bad boys and girls... requiring such a lame apollogy as you submitted.
I thot you had more guts to stand up for the truth as you see it than that.
But now you are both making nice... and I'm sure you both feel better.
All that was sacrificed was honesty... a small price to pay for feeling good about each other.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Tomas isn't actually a serious philosopher, as he proves this constantly by his comedic antics that never cease, and his refusal to engage in serious debate, he cannot even be thoughtful enough to use the quote feature for the sake of others.

He has proven that he cannot regularly engage in consistent and serious critical thinking, and the end result is that he is actually a negative force on the forum, as his presence becomes a drain on the more serious members...

perhaps Tomas should find another forum that is more akin to his own interests....

[Ryan Rudolph]

Loki,

A reliance on logic alone, without the capacity to feel the anticipatory states of joy, guilt, sadness, or anxiety that might follow a particular judgment, would lead most people to do many, many more foolish things. Wise commentators on human nature have nominated emotion, not logic, as the basis for human civility and prudent selection of alternatives.

I disagree, judgements that are distorted by emotion reflect a mind that is trying to protect the emotions of another, but emotions in themselves are dishonest, meaning that when two honest men are around each other, there is no fear of hurting the others emotions because it isn’t even possible, as both men are beyond emotional hurt altogether.

And yes, Evolution favours the protection of the ego, which is essentially emotional preferences, and that is why the self is so unstable because its happiness is dependent on castles made of sand, meaning dependent on temporally pleasure states provided by the outside world of finite forms.

That is why love is so dangerous because it is based on stealing the wrong types of emotional energy from another, and becoming addicted to them, which only results in loneliness, sadness, depression, more intense longings and desires, and a fear of being alone. The most loving thing the world could do is to abandon love altogether, but that is not something that will happen easily, as most couples won’t give up that sort of chemically induced euphoria.

The main causes of hatred and violence in the world is man’s addiction to the various forms of love whether they be women, drink, power, material toys, or what have you. Men are addicted to the illusionary world of forms, and he has lost his way from the will of god by falling into the trap of ego gratification and continuation of his own ego as reality.

[brokenhead]

Tomas,
I don't apologize, was not angry at all in my post and actually suspect that you are a brain-damaged moron with nothing better to do than mock conversations which are over your head on these boards.

PS:
Loki,
I think it was spineless cowardice of you to back off and eat crow just because you spoke (wrote) with the passion of radical honesty... which you mistook for 'shameful' anger... which we are conditioned to believe makes us bad boys and girls... requiring such a lame apollogy as you submitted.
I thot you had more guts to stand up for the truth as you see it than that.
But now you are both making nice... and I'm sure you both feel better.
All that was sacrificed was honesty... a small price to pay for feeling good about each other.

Get a grip, mikiel. No one is forcing you to read Tomas' posts.

[brokenhead]

That is why love is so dangerous because it is based on stealing the wrong types of emotional energy from another, and becoming addicted to them, which only results in loneliness, sadness, depression, more intense longings and desires, and a fear of being alone. The most loving thing the world could do is to abandon love altogether, but that is not something that will happen easily, as most couples won’t give up that sort of chemically induced euphoria.

Ridiculous. You are talking about selfish love. Love does not have to be dangerous.

Look, electricity is dangerous, Ryan. Should the world give it up because sometimes people shock themselves, or accidentally get electrocuted, or are sometimes struck by lightning? Or because, like love, so few people really understand it?

[xerox]

...

[mikiel]

broke:

Get a grip, mikiel. No one is forcing you to read Tomas' posts.

Do you have a problem with my confrontation of Tomas' moronic melodrama? It's no trouble, really. Whether or not he can hear and use the feedback is up to him, and I'm totally unattached to whether he does or not.

I do agree with your criticism of Ryan's take on the dangers of love, which apply only to possessive "love" not True Love. The latter is unconditional, and is not only not dangerous but is the saving Grace of life, the bond of "conscious unity" (if you will) between us all.
It even transcends the bickering between you and me. Universal Love is the essence of enlightenment, but it does not forbid confrontation of egocentricity. The motivation for the latter is to help folks get over themselves in prep for the ultimate surrender of the false sense of separate self.

[mikiel]

Hey Loki,
Did I blow you clear away?
It was nothing personal. I'm a longtime practitioner of radical honesty.
It's about truth telling *at all cost* even if it hurts *feelings.*

If you were actually remorseful, I'd like to know what changed your mind about Tomas. If you were, as I suspected, just making nice, ashamed of your anger... well... glad to have pointed it out, and you're welcome.