Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden

[Kelly Jones]

I mean, it's not talking about seeking truth, is it?

Seek liberation from what? Falsehood? Suffering?

[clyde]

Yes.

[Kevin Solway]

Zen and Tibetan Buddhism are like chalk and cheese.

[clyde]

Kevin;

I am not familiar with the phrase “like chalk and cheese”, but I think I get your point.

I acknowledge that I prefer the simple and direct approach of Chan/Zen, but that is a preference based on my personality and style. Others may find different approaches more suited to their personality and style.

Regarding Tibetan Buddhism, while their path does not suit me, I have read some texts in that tradition and, reading with an eye to see wisdom, have found wisdom. See, for example, the Eight Verses on Training the Mind and Atisha’s Lamp for the Path to Enlightenment (translations and commentary can be found in Lighting the Way by the Dalai Lama). And there are other texts as well. Still, the Tibetan tradition is certainly not for everyone.

clyde

[geniuine]

And to think that the solution is so simple!

Anyone can criticize, but not everyone can come up with a solution. It's as it should be, right?

[Ataraxia]

The Dalai Lama is the most over rated 'wise person' on this planet.

Where is the wisdom in taking counsel and making important decisions from shamans in trances? i don't think he even tells the truth alot of the time these days. As Kevin pointed out he blankly refuses to admit first hand eye witness evidence(about violence in his name) prefering to stick to delusions.

Theres no more dangerous liar than a revered one.

[Tenzin]

Dear Kevin Solway,
I am not able to stop the PR machine of the New Kadampa Tradition or Western Shugden Society, however, I am at least able to balance it by adding another pov or some links.

Regarding the three YouTube Links you added: The Swiss Docu has itself raised much controversy in Swiss and the TV station had to sent more broadcasts to balance the one-sided claims by Shugden followers which they overtook too easily from them without verifying it. At the end even the media laughed about the chief of the TV station that he was so naive. (see http://www.tibetfocus.com/shugden/index.html)

In Swiss there are many Tibetans and it is not that easy to blur them about what they know for themselves. NKT/WSS abuses the internet and the media to spread their misleading and exaggerated claims - welcome in the NKT World of Perception.

If you speak of Karma maybe your observe your own Karma and also think what led towards the situation that nowadays most think Shugden followers are fundamentalists. There is no Dalai Lama to blame for this but the own radical and dishonest, aggressive attitudes.

I set up a blog to balance the NKT/WSS propaganda:
http://westernshugdensociety.wordpress.com/

The article by Zen Teacher Barbara O'Brian adds another perspective as well:
http://buddhism.about.com/od/vajrayanab ... hugden.htm

For more balanced information:
http://info-buddhismus.de/new_kadampa_tradition.html

Also Tricycle Editor's Blog offers other perspectives:
http://blog.tricycle.com/?p=741

I am amazed to see how dominant NKT is in the internet again....

Best Wishes, Tenzin

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

In video 1, the narrator referred to the question & answer period of Buddhist teachings as

Precise logic at the highest level.

Nevertheless, the vid linked with it involved raised voices and shoving. Yelling and shoving are symptoms of emotionalism, not signs of logic.

It was also stated that Tibetan belief in that deity caused a risk to the life of the Dalai Lama. The Chinese government enforces atheism, so I wonder if he is responding to earthly threats from humans. I also wonder just how much the DL actually believes in Tibetan Buddhism. He cut off their deity, changed laws so that the DL can be overthrown... when he was younger he was more interested in science and worldly matters than finishing his Buddhist studies.

On the other hand, doesn't Buddhism teach non-attachment? Obviously the people in the video had gotten quite attached to their deity. "If you see the Buddha on the street, kill him."

[Kevin Solway]

Tenzin,

I have no idea what point you were trying to make with your post.

What I found most interesting about those videos was the Dalai Lama's obvious denial of reality, and the fundamentalist and ignorant nature of the Dalai Lama's followers. These are things I have confirmed for myself by meeting a great many fundamentalist Tibetan Buddhists in person, and I have confirmed that they are indeed extremely ignorant and behave like a cult.

Shugden worship is not true Buddhism, but nor is 99% of Tibetan Buddhism. The worship of the Dalai Lama as some sort of a god is just as bad as the worship of Shugden, and leads to just as much violence.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

There seems to be some debate about whether or not Tibet is a part of China. The first video contradicts some basic tenants in the videos Kevin posted:
Tibet: The Truth (A Political History)

The second and third contradict each other:
Tibet was NOT, is NOT, and will NEVER BE a part of China
Tibet WAS,IS,and ALWAYS WILL BE a part of China

Hmm, time for some non-YouTube sources to back up these claims:
An Australian news source similarly states that the Dalai Lama was being paid by the CIA of the United States.

I googled "cia dalai lama" and found a lot - but I'm not so sure of the reliability of the sources. Nevertheless, the whole Dalai Lama gig can't have been just a ploy by the CIA as some of the sites seem to suggest, because the first DL Gendun Drup also Gendun Drub and Kundun Drup (1391–1474), and the second DL who formalized the practice - were both well before the United States was even formed. Still the actions, ethics, and motivations of this DL (14th) are a curiosity.

[Tomas]

.

There seems to be some debate about whether or not Tibet is a part of China. The first video contradicts some basic tenants in the videos Kevin posted:
Tibet: The Truth (A Political History)

-tomas-
The geographical landscape changes (within) every generation.

At the end of the day, Tibet can take its case to the United Nations.

Why don't you sell your worldly goods, get a passport and move on over there? And, book a flight with Kevin on board, too.




-Elizabeth-
The second and third contradict each other:
Tibet was NOT, is NOT, and will NEVER BE a part of China
Tibet WAS,IS,and ALWAYS WILL BE a part of China

-tomas-
Who fawking cares? This bullshit has been flying before we were born and will continue long after we have returned to the soil...




-Elizabeth-
Hmm, time for some non-YouTube sources to back up these claims:
An Australian news source similarly states that the Dalai Lama was being paid by the CIA of the United States.

-tomas-
His brother was an agent, this homosexual/pedophile was/is with British intelligence.




-Elizabeth-
I googled "cia dalai lama" and found a lot - but I'm not so sure of the reliability of the sources.

-tomas-
Try http://www.altavista.com




-Elizabeth-
Nevertheless, the whole Dalai Lama gig can't have been just a ploy by the CIA as some of the sites seem to suggest, because the first DL Gendun Drup also Gendun Drub and Kundun Drup (1391–1474), and the second DL who formalized the practice - were both well before the United States was even formed. Still the actions, ethics, and motivations of this DL (14th) are a curiosity.

-tomas-
Blah, blah and more blah.

What are you on about this crap?



.

[Blair]

Tomas, King gossiper, ladies and gentleman.