The Problem With Women Today

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
cousinbasil
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by cousinbasil »

Bob Michael wrote:
cousinbasil wrote:Nietzsche gives himself a priceless gift - the hour of self contempt. You, on the other hand, "constantly" mow your "self" down. Is your method superior?
Nietzsche gave himself no such "priceless gift." Nor did I ever really choose to 'mow my'self' down'. We both simply happened to built or predestined for the abyss or that valley of the shadow of death.
I have not read Nietzsche deeply, and that which I have was many years ago. I have to take your word for the quote. I call it a priceless gift because 1) it is beyond value, and 2) one must make a choice.

Your problem is that you haven't done it yet. The world is harsh, yes, but it is not grim. How come Nietzsche gets it done in an hour and you have to be at it all the time? If you could look at the worst possible thing in the eye for an hour, or let it sit off to the side where it is always in sight, which would you choose?
sdgreco
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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Kelly Jones wrote:Cows chewing on cud seem happy and content to me. But they're not wise.

I don't equate wisdom with sadness, but with transcending both happiness and sadness. That only comes with understanding God wholly. And God is formlessness.

My female relatives have been of varying contentedness, some more self-assured and relaxed than others. But they're not all that bright. For instance, my aunt, a minister's wife (he, the minister, is a senior chaplain in the RAAF - Royal Australian Air Force - and received an OAM - order of Australia, or some such thing) believes deeply that she is solving the poverty of Bangladeshi women (or some country like that) by helping to sell their handmade clothes in Australia. When I mentioned that the same kind of greed and selfishness present in developed countries, that creates poverty for others in poor nations, is present in the latter, and is exactly what they aspire to, she was silent. She said, "Oh, that's over my head." She doesn't want to think about the causes for suffering. She can't really understand causation. For her, bandaid patches are enough, since that is all she can comprehend. She's a fabulous seamstress, cook, domestic organiser, and so forth, because she's been taught that such behaviours are the highest morality for a woman. Thus, her solutions are very limited and superficial. She thinks love, and a hug, and a piece of lovingly homemade apple pie with a spoon of homemade fresh full-cream will pay the rent or solve global poverty. She's still very much in the animal realms.


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HA HA HA, GOOD ONE!
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Bob Michael
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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cousinbasil wrote:If you could look at the worst possible thing in the eye for an hour, or let it sit off to the side where it is always in sight, which would you choose?
The rose-colored glasses are fully off here, and my sanity is still intact. I consider this quite a feat.
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by sdgreco »

Bob Michael wrote:
Kelly Jones wrote:Cows chewing on cud seem happy and content to me. But they're not wise.
Could it be that you're too wise and void of a genuinely creative outlet for that abundance of wisdom? Could your aunt, in spite of her ways of error, possibly have more contentment and peace of mind in her life than you seem to have? Granted she'll most likely never know the joys of being in the Kingdom of God, but she'll not suffer all that much either, and naturally so, for her 'sins'. Most women think a hug and a kiss and a piece of lovingly made homemade apple pie will make everything all well and good. Which again is why there's a need for real men who can and will put their foot down and keep their woman in line. Starting with the lesson that charity begins at home.
Seriously dude, are you in the Taliban?

Either that or old and going senile.

Does your philosophy allow for the spanking of child and, if all else fails, wife as well?
I'm sure the answer is YES.

Who gets to wack you when you're "out of line"?

Father O'brian, the pedo perhaps.
Get some help, outside of your circle of misogs, if true healing is to have a chance.

---
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Kelly Jones
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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Did you see something funny in my aunt's behaviour, or in my view that she isn't that bright in how she deals with poverty?


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Kelly Jones
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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Bob, people often accuse Weininger of being anti-Semitic for expressing criticism of the culture he was brought up in, yet he explained what anti-Semitism was in quite a rational way (that is, hatred of traits one has in oneself, that one abuses another for having, particularly Jews). One can recognise that he doesn't fit that category. It's the same deal with the criticism that he's misogynistic. It's exactly the same deal. It's very possible to criticise those traits without hating them in oneself; this possibility arises if one doesn't actually have those traits, or has them in such a very small degree that hatred isn't the right word for describing one's transcendance of them. It'd be like a Flatlander who realised there was a third dimension, and had no further inclination for the Flatlander view.


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cousinbasil
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by cousinbasil »

Kelly Jones wrote:Did you see something funny in my aunt's behavior, or in my view that she isn't that bright in how she deals with poverty?
.
I'm aware you weren't asking me, but I didn't think your answer was funny, nor is your aunt's behavior. But to help us better understand your reason for criticizing her, maybe you could extemporize a few lines on how she might deal more brightly deal with poverty?
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Alex Jacob
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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Here is a link to an entry on Weininger in Antisemitism: A Historical Encyclopedia of Prejudice and Persecution, Volume 1 By Richard S. Levy
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cousinbasil
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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Bob Michael wrote:
cousinbasil wrote:If you could look at the worst possible thing in the eye for an hour, or let it sit off to the side where it is always in sight, which would you choose?
The rose-colored glasses are fully off here, and my sanity is still intact. I consider this quite a feat.
Your sanity isn't the issue, your soul is.
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Alex Jacob
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by Alex Jacob »

Here is another interesting analysis of Weininger and his influence on his era: Jews and Gender: Responses to Otto Weininger.

Though it is only reproduced in part, one can see that good parts of the criticism of Weiniger's ideas have applicability to the GF and to some of its apologists.
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namae nanka
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by namae nanka »

I tried reading past the first page, but the later pages didn't talk of the article and anyway the article is long gone. And alex ruined the fun somewhere around the 25 page mark.

"4. But sadly, the article is one sided and extreme, so no wonder the feminists reacted against his kind. Yes, feminists complain too much and blame too much and pretend too much, but there WAS a glass ceiling."

Glass ceiling is a myth created by feminists who don't seem to realize that you have to basically work yourself to death to rise above a certain level.(above what they have legislated by implementing laws that give promotion and job opportunities to women) While women whine for places in the highest echelon, men continue to populate the glass cellar too.
The difference is, men's achievements aren't achievements really, but mere historial footnotes, a women breaking into men's domains is progress, blow to patriarchy, women's movement's next big achievement, shattering the glass ceiling, blah blah blah.


"6. yeah, women don't achieve like men, so let's just not let them even try!"

The reality is opposite, the current dogma is that women can achieve as well as men if we just provide them with a little self-esteem. The result is:
“If you had a picture of a person doing something positive, winning a race, performing an experiment successfully, etc., [you had to] make sure it was of a girl,” said one of the consultants involved in the revisions. “If you had to have a picture of someone doing a bad thing – bullying, making a mistake, being unsure which course of action to take, etc. – the image was invariably of a boy.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... le1758791/

Girls are doing better in schools, having better scholarship opportunities for colleges.
Numbers are played around in order to show that they do better in schools and colleges and thus are a better choice for further opportunities:
http://bit.ly/fXTIqo
http://www.academia.org/title-ix-conquers-science/


"8. he asks, "Why does the media do this?" (Show a woman doctor.) Well I have news for him, about half of all doctors are now women, and I happen to think they are particularly well suited to it."

They don't work as long as the older men doctors, and see less patients for the same time. Canada has a doctor shortage and though these points were obvious in determining the cause of it, yet efforts are directed towards trying to make the job easier for women.

And women getting financially independent doesn't mean that men are free, but far from it. Women are still net consumers and dependant, but the husband is now government; women might have jobs, but far more in services, government, and HR departments where nothing of value is produced while men get taxed and women get paid.
Men get screwed in divorce courts and being asked to pay alimony and child support, even if they weren't married; it will ultimately lead to men simply stopping to support women in any form save for casual flings.
But this might herald the end of civilized society. A single man doesn't have to work much in order to live, a married man on the contrary has to work hard, his labors not only propping up his family, but also producing a surplus that goes towards betterment of society, not to mention the positive effect fathers have in communities and especially on young men.


Pretty good replies by skipair,
http://www.theabsolute.net/phpBB/viewto ... &start=400

About women being actresses, here is some work done by a man who explains that while female strategy for obtaining sex and its entailments involves dishonesty, male strategy goes about it in the honest way.
http://www.heretical.com/sexsci/index.html

While men's fear is being duped into caring for another man's kid and thus mate guarding and jealousy, women's fear is of being deprived of the choice of selecting their sexual mates. The fear of rape is as instinctual in women, as a lion's drive to kill the cubs of previous pride leader. To keep their choices valid, they would do anything, even emasculate their own boys and men, though it's a double-edged sword, for they'll remove the same things that they are attracted to.

http://www.heretical.com/sexsci/theorems.html

Though as society grows more feminine, you'll have males adopting female strategies in order to obtain sex; the "game" that skipair talked about, and in more extreme cases, males will even display female behavior:

http://lostinstockholm.com/2008/03/31/t ... male-look/
What is it? Ladies, you know the look you give a man in the bar/restaurant/party etc that you’re interested in him? You look at him, make eye contact, smile shyly, look away, look back at him, and turn away. That, is basically the look a Swedish man gives.
Another quote by someone in the past pages:
I don't know. Girls would probably enjoy seeing animals fuck each other, and no doubt the size and power of a horse/horse dick would have some effect, but I could only speculate.
I think this study kinda agrees with it, though not because of that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magaz ... ire-t.html


Another article about what's wrong with women:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/ ... lf-esteem/
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Bob Michael
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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Kelly Jones wrote:Bob, people often accuse Weininger of being anti-Semitic for expressing criticism of the culture he was brought up in, yet he explained what anti-Semitism was in quite a rational way (that is, hatred of traits one has in oneself, that one abuses another for having, particularly Jews). One can recognise that he doesn't fit that category. It's the same deal with the criticism that he's misogynistic. It's exactly the same deal. It's very possible to criticise those traits without hating them in oneself; this possibility arises if one doesn't actually have those traits, or has them in such a very small degree that hatred isn't the right word for describing one's transcendance of them. It'd be like a Flatlander who realised there was a third dimension, and had no further inclination for the Flatlander view.
Yes, we're on the same page here, Kelly. I see Christ similarly. My grandmother used to say there's a little bit of Jew in all of us. And she had no hatred in her heart for anyone. Contempt maybe at times, but not hatred. How do you view Weininger's early death by suicide? Where did you pickup the term Flatlander? Who by the way always seem to need a scapegoat of some sort or someone to dump on.

I generally consider a man who avoids a relationship with a woman and constantly criticizes and belittles them a misogynist. Or, as Weininger said, someone who hates his own not yet overcome sexuality or himself in general. Someone who has probably been so deeply emasculated by his conditioning that there can be no overcoming of it. Of course there are also those who can but are too weak and cowardly to do so.
cousinbasil
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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namae wrote:To keep their choices valid, they would do anything, even emasculate their own boys and men, though it's a double-edged sword, for they'll remove the same things that they are attracted to.
Always with the "they." The idea that "they" are running around with sharp objects planning to slice off the testicles of "their men and boys" is about as rational as thinking that "they" are somehow attracted to that same hairy nut sac.
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Alex Jacob
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by Alex Jacob »

Bob wrote: "Yes, we're on the same page here, Kelly. I see Christ similarly. My grandmother used to say there's a little bit of Jew in all of us."

What is the page you find yourself on? I didn't quite understand. What did your grandmother mean?
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cousinbasil
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by cousinbasil »

Alex Jacob wrote:Bob wrote: "Yes, we're on the same page here, Kelly. I see Christ similarly. My grandmother used to say there's a little bit of Jew in all of us."

What is the page you find yourself on? I didn't quite understand. What did your grandmother mean?
Hey Bubbeleh, maybe she meant that everyone knows the schlemiel spills the soup... on the schlamozzel.
namae nanka
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by namae nanka »

cousinbasil wrote:
namae wrote:To keep their choices valid, they would do anything, even emasculate their own boys and men, though it's a double-edged sword, for they'll remove the same things that they are attracted to.
Always with the "they." The idea that "they" are running around with sharp objects planning to slice off the testicles of "their men and boys" is about as rational as thinking that "they" are somehow attracted to that same hairy nut sac.
Well, the literal usage went out a long time ago, and the problem that you have with "they", substitute anything you want.
To control men's sexual behaviour, while uncertainties in the same behaviour are the turn-ons.
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Bob Michael
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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Alex Jacob wrote:What is the page you find yourself on? I didn't quite understand.

By saying 'we're on the same page', I meant we're in agreement.
Alex Jacob wrote:What did your grandmother mean?
Let's say here that none of us are totally free of the seven deadly sins.
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Kelly Jones
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by Kelly Jones »

cousinbasil wrote:
Kelly Jones wrote:Did you see something funny in my aunt's behavior, or in my view that she isn't that bright in how she deals with poverty?
I'm aware you weren't asking me, but I didn't think your answer was funny, nor is your aunt's behavior. But to help us better understand your reason for criticizing her, maybe you could extemporize a few lines on how she might deal more brightly deal with poverty?
She mistakenly assumes that her own lifestyle is environmentally sustainable if extrapolated to every adult on earth having children, like she has done. I haven't visited where she lives, and actually have no idea where she lives, but I know she depends on advanced medical care for her husband, and is a highly sociable person. If she was serious about ending poverty, she'd focus on, firstly, helping everyone to become enlightened to maximise rationality and non-attachment (thus ending greed and the unnecessary suffering and devastation from war), then focus on some practical solutions like reducing population levels, and help everyone to live zero-carbon-emission lifestyles.


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Kelly Jones
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

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Bob Michael wrote:How do you view Weininger's early death by suicide?
Probably, he was deeply worried about his capacity to live up to the demands of his ethics. His final investigations were into the criminal mind, and I think he found a great deal of it in himself because of his imagination and perfectionism. It worried him. But, as my theory goes, this would not have been so bad if his book had been accepted. Since no one wanted to hear it, he found, all at once, that not only was he completely alone with his understanding of the ideal ego and the depravity of the criminal mind - and would have to struggle to find solutions completely on his own, a rather terrible and daunting process - but he had the massive undertaking of trying to help a deaf, dumb, and dead audience to become conscious, also completely on his own. It is no wonder that he felt overwhelmed. In turn, his fears would have caused him to see a great deal more criminality in himself than he really had.

It's rather complex, but I think there were two main triggers for his suicide. He valued the message more than his own development, and used his suicide to create a scandal, creating publicity for the book. It was rather a cynical solution, but it had the pulse of his times. It worked; the dead were awakened through their criminal love for seeing misery and suffering. The second trigger was his psychological instability, which would have regarded the suicide as something of a punishment for evils he really didn't have to the degree he'd imagined.

Just a theory. He was a very creative, insightful young man, with a very powerful and mostly logical mind (at least, in his thesis). But he was still young, still exploring.

Where did you pickup the term Flatlander?
Check out the link in the Worldly Matters thread "Short literary demisters", in the last post I made, to the science-fiction story Flatland.

Who by the way always seem to need a scapegoat of some sort or someone to dump on.
Who are you referring to?

I generally consider a man who avoids a relationship with a woman and constantly criticizes and belittles them a misogynist.
The former isn't a sign of misogyny, if you mean sexual-emotional relations. One could avoid such relations with anyone for good reason.

Or, as Weininger said, someone who hates his own not yet overcome sexuality or himself in general. Someone who has probably been so deeply emasculated by his conditioning that there can be no overcoming of it. Of course there are also those who can but are too weak and cowardly to do so.
I wouldn't call a deluded person a misogynist. But it all depend what you mean by the word.

I use it to mean a rejection of female psychology, without hatred of an emotional kind. I find it very interesting that so few people can understand this definition; it's an excellent epigram.


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Bob Michael
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by Bob Michael »

Kelly Jones wrote:Just a theory. He (Weininger) was a very creative, insightful young man, with a very powerful and mostly logical mind (at least, in his thesis). But he was still young, still exploring.
Thanks Kelly. I wonder if Weininger was incapable of full development? Did he see no hope for the awakening of anyone in his time, like Nietzsche? I find his following line rather interesting and often felt the same way about myself, none of which yet came to be: "There are three possibilities for me, the gallows, suicide, or a future so brilliant that I don't dare to think of it."

I'll continue to assume a "Flatlander" is an unawakened or unenlightened person, who always seem to need something or someone to dump on.

And I'll give the misogynist business rest for now.
namae nanka
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by namae nanka »

I generally consider a man who avoids a relationship with a woman and constantly criticizes and belittles them a misogynist.
I have too much respect for women to fuck them, and just enough for my intellect to not have a relationship with them.
There's no point in hating women, but one should hate woman.
Or, as Weininger said, someone who hates his own not yet overcome sexuality or himself in general.
And thus he relegates woman to nothing but sexuality.

As for W's suicide:

Ordinary people seem not to realize that those
who really apply themselves in the right way to
philosophy are directly and of their own accord
preparing themselves for dying and death. If this
is true, and they have actually been looking
forward to death all their lives, it would of course
be absurd to be troubled when the thing comes
for which they have so long been preparing and
looking forward.
—SOCRATES, PHAEDO
There is a very popular opinion that choosing life is
inherently superior to choosing death. This belief that life is
inherently preferable to death is one of the most widespread
superstitions. This bias constitutes one of the most obstinate
mythologies of the human species.
-Mitchell Heisman
http://www.suicidenote.info/


and just random feminism thing:
http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?cont ... moothing=3
cousinbasil
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by cousinbasil »

Kelly wrote:She mistakenly assumes that her own lifestyle is environmentally sustainable if extrapolated to every adult on earth having children, like she has done.
I think you are assuming what it is your aunt assumes. I think it is fair to say you cannot know her very well since you do not even know where she lives, although I am tempted to agree that the women on both sides of your family should have reconsidered their reproductive efforts:
then focus on some practical solutions like reducing population levels, and help everyone to live zero-carbon-emission lifestyles.
Maybe if you visited her once in a while it wouldn't be so easy to publicly criticize her. Wait, don't tell me - visiting her would be a needless waste of nonrenewable, carbon-producing resources. In all likelihood she would agree, as I am sure she would rather not be assailed by the barrage of self-righteous criticism from you that such a visit would entail.

Since it is your head and not your ears that is pointy, while I shall continue to respectfully call you Kelly, I shall be thinking Mr. Spike.
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Tomas
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by Tomas »

brokenhead wrote:
Shahrazad wrote:Broken,
I wonder, Nick, do you actually read what he writes?
I'd be surprised to find someone who does.
Shah, I read a lot of what Alex writes. He's hilarious. This is all up for grabs, mind you. If you went back and culled his
posts, you would have enough material to last you a lifetime as a stand-up on the Borscht Belt circuit.
Some of his YouTube addendums are rather tedious.

On the whole, though, it's good to have a Resident Jew on this Genius Forum
Don't run to your death
sdgreco
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Re: The Problem With Women Today

Post by sdgreco »

Kelly Jones wrote:Did you see something funny in my aunt's behaviour, or in my view that she isn't that bright in how she deals with poverty?

Hi Kelly. I guess i was amused and also impressed with your clever comparison to cows of the resident misogs idea of the perfect woman, all we can do is hope he was at least a wee-bit enlightened!
And while you're here I've got a request of my own, I noticed that you are amigos with one of the infinite moderators, during your next chat would you (or anyone for that matter) mention to Mr K Sinfinite that some 50 sycophants now await his response to my response to his MOI videos.

I know that I am new here but the wait does seem excessive, shouldn't we have an expectation of cooperation, in particular from forum owners?

Regards, SG
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