Universal Consciousness or Oneness

[Leyla Shen]

You mean inferred, Laird---INFERRED, because that's the only possibly way your narrow, dogmatic mind can see.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Trevor, my perspective is that in favourable conditions, the amount of suffering produced by attachment to sex is minimal when compared with the great pleasure that it provides. I'd be interested to know Dan's reaction to that perspective.

I'll leave responding to this to Dan, then.

[earnest_seeker]

Leyla, you seem to be going out of your way to attack practically everything that I write, and not only that, but to attack me personally. What is your objective?

[Dan Rowden]

Trevor, my perspective is that in favourable conditions, the amount of suffering produced by attachment to sex is minimal when compared with the great pleasure that it provides. I'd be interested to know Dan's reaction to that perspective.

I'll leave responding to this to Dan, then.

People who get a lot of sex, by definition, get a lot of pleasure. There's nothing to argue there; it also necessitates that they have a lot of desire. Desire necessarily means absence. It's what the word means. I mean, let's get fair dinkum here: if you can't grasp that, you can't grasp anything at all.

[Leyla Shen]

It's a divine act of God, Laird...

[brokenhead]

Leyla, you seem to be going out of your way to attack practically everything that I write, and not only that, but to attack me personally. What is your objective?

Clearly, she's bored.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

People who get a lot of sex, by definition, get a lot of pleasure. There's nothing to argue there; it also necessitates that they have a lot of desire. Desire necessarily means absence. It's what the word means. I mean, let's get fair dinkum here: if you can't grasp that, you can't grasp anything at all.

Certainly. But Laird seemed to be doing some hedonistic calculus there. How do you convince a utilitarian that not having desire at all is better (leads to greater happiness) than having some desire accompanied by large amounts of pleasure?

[Dan Rowden]

People who get a lot of sex, by definition, get a lot of pleasure. There's nothing to argue there; it also necessitates that they have a lot of desire. Desire necessarily means absence. It's what the word means. I mean, let's get fair dinkum here: if you can't grasp that, you can't grasp anything at all.

Certainly. But Laird seemed to be doing some hedonistic calculus there. How do you convince a utilitarian that not having desire at all is better (leads to greater happiness) than having some desire accompanied by large amounts of pleasure?

I don't know. I'm not actually trying to convince him of that. If you weigh things up and find the scales fall on the pleasure side of the ledger, then that's fine by me. What I'm trying to do is get his brain to work. How to do start to do such accounting if you can't even recognise the nature of the things to be weighed?

[Carl G]

Laird seems to be wearing out his re-welcome here with excessive posting and indication of respectively less than ideal ratio of introspection. Maybe it's just me.

[Dan Rowden]

I'm deliberately pushing him hard for two reasons. The most important one being that he needs to see there are things he's unwilling to concede for emotional, rather than logical reasons. You can't begin to do philosophy till you see that dynamic in yourself. Did Aquinas formulate the 5 "proofs" for the existence of God because he wanted to get to the bottom of Reality or because he wanted to build a justification for extant beliefs?

[Trevor Salyzyn]

How to do start to do such accounting if you can't even recognise the nature of the things to be weighed?

I guess this should be a question for Laird:

What are the things being weighed in your pleasure/pain calculation, and how would you define them?

[Shahrazad]

Earnest, I am so disappointed in you. You just couldn't help yourself, could you?

[earnest_seeker]

What are the things being weighed in your pleasure/pain calculation, and how would you define them?

The things that I'm weighing are:

* On the pain side: frustration when you don't get what you want.

* On the pleasure side: not only the obvious - the physical pleasure of sex - but also the slightly less obvious: the savouring of your partner's desirability and of your desire for her; the anticipation and the build-up to the act, which can take place over days or even weeks.

I don't know what definitions you'd like me to provide so I've skipped that bit of the question.

Sher, I have no idea why you're disappointed. I didn't post the link.

[HYPNOSIS]

A blog dealing with the Truth of enlightenment, through wisdom, logic and truth based on universal understanding from a christian viewpoint. Although the vedic scriptures, the Upanishads, talk of a sea of consciousness and eternal truths. One consciousness and different cultural history all form the understanding. :-)

http://uk.blog.360.yahoo.com/elderwoodxxx

FOR ALL Entry for 05 June 2008
AS ONE IN YOU FOR ALL


Dear father and lord of all that you are, the Almighty one of All things, long you dwell in your temple and yet not long. Your work is soon to be complete. Your spirit now shines to all as one through Jesus Christ whom you made as our atonement for sin in continued ignorance of you. Know that your will is being made known and that many do not rest night and day until they have made you known to all man of this world.


Confusion reigns in mans world, even though you have redeemed many purchased by your blood. May you continue to purchase souls in your righteousness and perfection and may many who are still lost see with their hearts and mind that you hold the keys to Hades and that your will is made known for All as One.


Your spirit is pouring fourth as One and your will is upholding your eternal law for completion. Let man now see how he makes his own wrath as verily he harvests his own desires. I am as ever your most humble servant whom you have renewed with your might, Spirit and world, with your eternal mercy, grace and love.


Your consciousness as One with All things is being made known to those whom still cannot hear you in the fact that I have heard many things about their belief. There is some confusion in mind that they are many things, unaware of being purchased through your blood, will and might. They shine lights of your making in accordance with your will of all that IS. You dwell in their bodies joining them in spirit to the stars through Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour, our redeemer, our atonement. May his grace be known to all man, as the key to the freedom of ALL. By your consciousness you lift us up through him, so that as men like him we can come to you in light and love as now One in unity.



Oh lord I long for the day of your glory to be made known to all nations as One, for your heaven to be realised for all man in you. To be realised as man for you. You make all things possible so that we can turn and love all things, knowing that you have sent them in accordance with your most perfect design and will. Please keep me close to you so that the world may bathe in the glory of your light. You dwell in the bodies of those you redeem and through them you are made known to the world. We are now becoming One dear Lord so that All expressing for the many can shine as lights in expression of the One, made possible through your power, gifts of grace and eternal unconditional love for All things.


You are bringing your heaven to Earth, by raising your Earth in consciousness as now ONE. We are coming together in light of our divinity as One and together we can all help change our world in peace and harmony, ready for the time that you choose to once more dwell among us as one in eternity, wrapped in immortality and strengthened from within all hearts joined as One, as ALL.


Like ancient times past, long before and when you made the new world for All, let us now shine in glory as a united shower of your might. Show the people that are strangers to you that they are now only deceiving themselves and the cups they pour are of their own making. You hold the keys dear Lord and have set them among men to shine as stars, lighting the way for your return into our presence.

You have shown me the might of your selfless love which set me free from death of mans world and renewed my spirit within me, so that I may understand your strength within the illusion of a mans heart hardened by the world around me. You allow me to see all hearts and minds as One with a heart that is already free. You gave me my freedom so that I could do your will by showing me why mans hearts have become hard. You showed me how to understand why the illusion created in density encases many hearts, cutting them off from you.


Forever have I searched a mans heart to find one that I could understand as my own. None did I find except yours, which has taught me how to love most perfectly, without the shadows of man dimming my light. You gave me your heart so that I may search all others and allow man to understand that all hearts are ONE. For in you we beat as One, a voice on the winds of eternity, consciousness now together, alive in the oceans of immortality.


You are my God who makes all things possible and with you, possible are all things. I am born of man, joined as One through Christ to be reborn a child of light. I am now all that IS. Through your graceful mercy, you redeemed me unto you, you set my soul FREE. You have given me pure free will in the escape from entrapments of selfish ego desire, and helped me to understand why I was already free yet once blinded in Self doubts darkness of a fallen worldly demise.


You made me so I could understand you. You make us ALL.


Amanda Thomas 2008


An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind...........Ghandi

I understand the part about truths being interpreted differently! Yet, I see things the way a dolphine could pin a ball on it's nose.

[elderwoodxxx]

I understand the part about truths being interpreted differently! Yet, I see things the way a dolphine could pin a ball on it's nose.

As do I, CLARITY comes with understanding and wisdom.. I see crystal.
amandaxxx

[earnest_seeker]

I'm deliberately pushing him hard for two reasons. The most important one being that he needs to see there are things he's unwilling to concede for emotional, rather than logical reasons.

Dan, I've been pondering this for a while now, particularly since brokenhead conceded that you were right. I was willing to concede that I was wrong, however after some analysis I've come to the conclusion that I'm after all justified in rejecting your assertion that desire is equivalent to absence. Here's my counter-assertion: desire is an attractive force which exists regardless of whether one possesses or lacks of the subject of the desire. I reiterate my original example: that a man can desire a woman even when he possesses her.

There you go, Carl, a little bit of introspection for ya.

earnest: Leyla, you seem to be going out of your way to attack practically everything that I write, and not only that, but to attack me personally. What is your objective?

brokenhead: Clearly, she's bored.

Leyla: It's a divine act of God, Laird...

Oh, really, Leyla, is that the best that you've got for me? You heap scorn, ridicule, and contempt upon me, and all that you have to justify it is a pissy come-back line? Please, I'm looking for honesty and sincerity, here, not dismissiveness. Why are you being so harsh with me?

Brokenhead, boredom is no excuse for the way that Leyla has written towards me. It's like saying "Satan was bored so he decided to burn a few souls in eternity for kicks". Well, not really, but you take my point I hope.

[brokenhead]

Brokenhead, boredom is no excuse for the way that Leyla has written towards me. It's like saying "Satan was bored so he decided to burn a few souls in eternity for kicks". Well, not really, but you take my point I hope.

Yes, quite. I'm just trying to on my best behavior when I plead before her.

[brokenhead]

...desire is an attractive force which exists regardless of whether one possesses or lacks of the subject of the desire.

I agree with this. And can in kinder, gentler moments be called "love."

[earnest_seeker]

earnest: ...desire is an attractive force which exists regardless of whether one possesses or lacks of the subject of the desire.

brokenhead: I agree with this. And can in kinder, gentler moments be called "love."

Lovely! We're on the same wavelength.

[brokenhead]

earnest: ...desire is an attractive force which exists regardless of whether one possesses or lacks of the subject of the desire.

brokenhead: I agree with this. And can in kinder, gentler moments be called "love."

Lovely! We're on the same wavelength.

As always, La - um, earnest_seeker.

[earnest_seeker]

"La - um"? Is that a new and funky mantra? Dang, I haven't been keeping up with the Joneses! Maybe I'm backwards in reciting the "Hare Rama" mantra! I really haven't kept up.

[earnest_seeker]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanway, who am I kidding? Every regular knows who I am already. Go ahead and say it, brokenhead.

[elderwoodxxx]

There seems to be a lot of love starting to flow here ;-) hmmmmm!
and agreement in underdstanding...... Selfless love of all things IS a key to awareness. When one place the interests of another first we have the unconditional nature of it. Selfless desire therefore, is wanting what is best for the next, as they then would want that for you. To shine a light reflected in another allows one to see who they really are.

amandaxxx

[Dan Rowden]

There seems to be a lot of love starting to flow here ;-) hmmmmm!

Yes, and banning will likely follow for one poster if things continue down that road. I'm giving him a heads up that he needs to heed and put in the context of his original experience. i.e. you can't undertake the same actions and expect a different outcome.

and agreement in underdstanding......

It's agreement in non-understanding and slippery wordplay. Desire, by definition, means absence because it means wanting and wanting denotes absence. If it didn't it'd be sublimation. Brokenhead has already introduced an entirely new word (and psychological reality) to get around this problem.

Selfless love of all things IS a key to awareness.

Selfless love is a consequence of awareness (i.e. part of the manifestation of it). You have this whole thing arse-about. And, the above exchange has no relation to selfless love whatsoever.

When one place the interests of another first we have the unconditional nature of it.

How does one judge that the interests of another are desirable and worthy of attention? Would you put the interests of a pedophile or murderer or thief first?

Selfless desire therefore, is wanting what is best for the next, as they then would want that for you.

Wanting the best for "the next" based on whose valuations? Theirs or yours?

To shine a light reflected in another allows one to see who they really are.

Yes, and mostly that adds up to them being indiscriminately stupid.

[elderwoodxxx]

elderwoodxxx wrote:
There seems to be a lot of love starting to flow here ;-) hmmmmm!


Yes, and banning will likely follow for one poster if things continue down that road. I'm giving him a heads up that he needs to heed and put in the context of his original experience. i.e. you can't undertake the same actions and expect a different outcome.

No but one may undertake differnt actions to gain the out come they require. Firstly we need to assertain how we perceive love.. many i am sure think it is fluffed up and non sensical. However basic morality and 'care' for another as you would care for your self is needed to become aware of who you are.

Quote:
and agreement in underdstanding......


It's agreement in non-understanding and slippery wordplay. Desire, by definition, means absence because it means wanting and wanting denotes absence. If it didn't it'd be sublimation. Brokenhead has already introduced an entirely new word (and psychological reality) to get around this problem.

I agree that outwardly desire through self seeking causes absence and separation, however selfless desire does the opposite. for it enables the then 'seeker' of this to understand oneself and worth in relation to all others. One has to learn how to love self before then knowing how to truly 'love' all others. I know this may sound 'fluffed' up but again perceptions allow agreement, i am not telling you it IS i am offering you a 'thought'.

Selfless love of all things IS a key to awareness.


Selfless love is a consequence of awareness (i.e. part of the manifestation of it). You have this whole thing arse-about. And, the above exchange has no relation to selfless love whatsoever.

Yes it is or it can be for some what maintains that awareness and allows it to form initially. This is why I talk about it a lot for it is through understanding feelings that we can learn to transcend the negative ones.

Quote:
When one place the interests of another first we have the unconditional nature of it.


How does one judge that the interests of another are desirable and worthy of attention? Would you put the interests of a pedophile or murderer or thief first?

One 'judges' that as a deep down feeling of what is moraly right for you. I believe this is what we call conscience. While i do not profess to know ALL others abominations and their reasons for doing so, we must ask our selves what actions and experience from others wrong led them to it in the first place. What i simply meant by that sentence was to put others before yourself, and to be aware of your own actions and thus consequences upon another which leads to their own...... Two wrongs as you know do not make a right. Revenge allows for self deceit.