Depression, Sex & Freemales

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Here's some stuff I found in the Guardian newspaper.

Marriage counsellors report a 40 per cent rise in husbands uninterested in physical relationships
'They tend to be men in their thirties, forties and fifties and married,' he said. 'It is a serious issue. It counts as a psychosexual dysfunction, rather than just a relationship problem, because these men haven't simply gone off their partner, but off sex altogether.'
The article is quite odd is serving up some explanations. The 'depression' angle is interesting when coupled with this other article: People are most likely to become depressed in middle age which points in my opinion not just to clinical depression but a slump more and more people hit because the way society and our life cycle is set up in general. Less energy to go around and more stress and anxiety experienced: the body/mind goes into hibernation.

Having no problem with energy are the single and happy freemales, who don't have time anymore for relationships because of their busy jobs and cramped hobby schedule, combined with a freewheeling social life.

If this research indicates anything but a temporary trend in thinking (not likely as all we have is quickly shifting trends nowadays) where does this all go: men losing interest in sex, women 'engaged' everywhere but in a private relationship? Also this could be not seen as trendy at all but something what was already there and getting more outspoken?
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Diebert wrote:Less energy to go around
What do you mean by this?

I think the reason why people suffer more around middle age is because they realize their chance to achieve something great has been wasted on their career, marriage and kids. These generic attainments produce, for every degree of gratification; worry and torment. Realizing this also contributes to the suffering. Finally, it's around middle age that we've accumulated so many memories of mistakes and blunders, that we can no longer suppress them back. The dam breaks, and sorrow floods the mind.
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

I think what he means is that men lose their motivation for sex because work takes all their energy, and by the time they get home they are too mentally and physically exhausted to even consider the possibility of sex. This is especially true for men working in physically demanding construction jobs, or even jobs that require constant mental focus such as bankers.

I know a guy who complains that sex for him is often a chore because he is so drained from work – this is probably why couples long for the weekend because they can have sex, and not be fighting sleep or exhaustion during the act. Moreover, his fantasies of greatness only extend to inventing air fresheners, he wants to build wealth quickly for himself by manufacturing some dull product that is already being produced better than what he can conceive of. He has no long term vision for humanity. Basically, most men are dimwits, and so their conceptions of freedom are also limited at best.

Moreover, men in their middle age are with women who are no longer physically attractive, and plus they are so out of touch with the younger generation, so it is the thought of how stuck they are with one partner that depresses them. Most men are naturally polygamous, and that is one of the only primitive conceptions of freedom that an unconscious mind has to cling onto, and even that option is unavailable to them. Ironically, their ambition to secure lasting sexual security with a beautiful woman results in being stuck with an old saggy irritating bore…

Oh how fantasies of happiness easily deceive man.

I would say that man’s dreams of greatness are fairly primitive – as their fantasies only extend to material success without a long term vision for humanity – they merely dream of raw wealth earned in ANY capacity, and they are indifferent to how they build that wealth. This is why lottery tickets are such a huge motivating force to keep mediocre people returning back to their jobs every week, they need the hope. However, I’m not against building material wealth, as I believe wealth can be build while providing humanity with something valuable, and steering humanity in the direction of increased rationality.

For instance: the scientist/engineer/ have noble ideals for humanity, their wealth is build by making humanities life better somehow, but most men lack the sophistication of directing their emotional discontent into something of value. Also, The Solway/Quinn teachings operate on a similar dynamic – they direct their emotional discontent into spreading rationality… Each talented mind directs their emotional discontent into whatever humanitarian cause they are genetically suited for.

That is why materialism isn’t necessarily bad – it is only bad if materialism is all that gives ones life meaning and vigor… On the contrary, a wise critical thinker can be the wisest of economists and scientists, as his understanding of human nature, global politics, and western civilization makes him an expert at making predictions, asking deep questions, carrying out experiments, or intuitively feeling out patterns of business behavior over the long-term, and investing accordingly.

A genius has the potential to be a polymath of sorts, as he can apply his discontent into whatever intellectual enterprises that suite his character….
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Cory and Ryan, I am most interested to see what your opinions will be in 20 years.

Thanks Diebert - it's nice to know that statistically, this is almost as bad as it gets.
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Cory Duchesne
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Cory Duchesne »

Ryan wrote:Moreover, men in their middle age are with women who are no longer physically attractive, and plus they are so out of touch with the younger generation, so it is the thought of how stuck they are with one partner that depresses them.
Yes, especially with the media being so saturated in alluring images of beautiful women. Never before has mankind been so subjected to what is essentially an accentuation of her most powerful features. And then there is the accessibility of porn as well.

I think the more frequent stimulus of exceptionally beautiful people makes it harder for ordinary or ugly looking people to enjoy each other sexually.

The more pleasurable the entertainment, the longer the shadow of dissatisfaction.
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by brokenhead »

Ryan Rudolph wrote:This is why lottery tickets are such a huge motivating force to keep mediocre people returning back to their jobs every week, they need the hope.
Thanks for bursting my damn bubble.
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by xerox »

...
Last edited by xerox on Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jason
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

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Ryan Rudolph wrote:Most men are naturally polygamous,
It surprises me that culture, society, religion, morals, mores etc have so successfully managed to keep a lid on men's sexual desires. Just walk through the average shopping centre(mall) and witness the endless stream of young attractive women in tight and revealing clothing - and then the men continually and reflexively averting their eyes from what they really want to be looking at. Am I wrong when I assume that there is a high level of self-control(or perhaps better "suppression" or "denial") going on here? Elephant in the room anyone?
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by brokenhead »

Jason wrote:It surprises me that culture, society, religion, morals, mores etc have so successfully managed to keep a lid on men's sexual desires. Just walk through the average shopping centre(mall) and witness the endless stream of young attractive women in tight and revealing clothing - and then the men continually and reflexively averting their eyes from what they really want to be looking at. Am I wrong when I assume that there is a high level of self-control(or perhaps better "suppression" or "denial") going on here? Elephant in the room anyone?
You can look but you'd better not, oh no you'd better not touch.
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by brokenhead »

So then I suppose there's something wrong with the fact that I bought a ticket to a Hannah Montanna show?
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Carl G »

The elephant called Girllusion. It's a bitch.
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Pye »

xerox writes:
The possible answers are 1) a loss of sexual interest, 2) loosing interest in the partner, 3) both... a) one as a function of the other or b) as a function of something else.
Off to a better start, xerox, but you forget another scenario here: her losing sexual interest in him. I suspect most men - in fact, anything human - can detect the less-than delighted responses to repetitively monogamous sex. In the case of lost enthusiasm on the part of women, it is written off to a lack of enthusiasm for sex itself. This in itself is a protective thought for men; it becomes a situational license to roam.

A glance at the surprising results of modern paternity testing ought to make it perfectly clear that neither men nor women are completely suited to the breeding model upon which socio-patrician concerns base themselves. In fact, the tendency to 'wander' on the part of women is the patrician's greatest concern, and hence the heavy-handed social system of breeding control (whose is whose). Her punishment for stepping outside of this configuration cascades down through numerous social forces still kept, irrationally, in place. There are many names for women who share an appetite for partner variety, but none of those adjectives is "normal." This, we seem to think, is the "nature" reserved only for men.

Perhaps those DNA tests indicate more than whose is whose: perhaps they reveal a program of genetic variety that is natural (i.e. not-thought/unconscious) for women to pursue (more than one father for her breeding capacity), just as many here tend to consider male sexual appetite as 'unconscious.' If women are considered, as they are often considered, naturally more monogamous than males, then why the great difficulty keeping this whole control of sexual access and breeding practices in place? Oh, right! Someone wants to tell me it's because women are incapable of ethical and moral thought and action. "Moral" as in - you are remanded to one partner, little missy, whereas myself . . . well, my 'higher morals' make it natural for me to variously roam . . . .

I would imagine that any right-thinking male would take pause over the very situation of modernity with which he takes exception. Her access to resources/livelihood without his historic interference places a great and substantial crack in the foundation of patrician breeding practices. She is not stuck with him anymore - not just for her shelter, sustenance, and social inclusion, but for the identity of her children. Yet this thought tends to terrify the modern man, who still sees her sexuality in need of his control, because it is he who needs to know whose is whose; he who demands systematic access. And he, who is rewarded by following the rules of patriarchy by finding a socially sanctioned hole in which to repeat himself ad nauseum . . . .

Then one wonders at a 'loss of interest?'

Luckily for him, his social system will permit him sexual access that flies under the radar, too, as long as he's discrete (pornography, prostitution, sex-slave market, etc.). Law enforcement takes it in turns to wink and look the other way.

Men and women alike suffer from innumerable dissatisfactions from this operative model of social order. Its sheer repetitiveness is of the sisyphusian variety of spirit-crushing activities. Can't remember where Nietzsche pointed this out (so I paraphrase): identifying differences is intellectual child's play, compared to the seeing of the samenesses in things.

xerox:
A male mouse with one female mouse, will go at it and then his sexual interest will suddenly fall off sharply. Introduce another female and his sexual interest is again piqued. This can go on idefinately and the male mouse never looses interest in sex, as long as its having sex with a different female.
Patriarchal "science." You want to see a wave instead of a particle; you'll see a wave. This male mouse does not go on "indefinitely." He responds to the estrus cycle of the female, just as every other mammal does.

Except the human. His great social ordering of sexual access to suit his appetite and identify his young is the leviathan under which he also crushes himself; and he takes everything else with him - women and children - as he goes down . . . .

I might venture a thought that the human species - out from under these patrician practices of breeding obsession and more aligned with the sexual nature of females (cyclical, varietal and not constant) could even-out a world population and back the species off from its fateful patriarchal hangover of multiply, multiply, multiply . . . . fuck, fuck, fuck . . . .
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Cory Duchesne wrote:
Diebert wrote:Less energy to go around
What do you mean by this?

I think the reason why people suffer more around middle age is because they realize their chance to achieve something great has been wasted on their career, marriage and kids. These generic attainments produce, for every degree of gratification; worry and torment. Realizing this also contributes to the suffering. Finally, it's around middle age that we've accumulated so many memories of mistakes and blunders, that we can no longer suppress them back. The dam breaks, and sorrow floods the mind.
The "middle age" seems to me quite a recent phenomenon. The organism is perhaps not optimally developed to last that long? My speculation would be that our body (and as such mind) peaks between 15-25 and after that it's downhill. The slide is better noticed in minds that were peaking in the first place. A rebirth or reset of some kind seems to occur later on and people experience a golden autumn of some kind with higher spirits and a more balanced out energy.

These are just generalizations and it seems a lot of circumstantial elements and mental reorientation could influence this "biological clock" big time.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

xerox wrote: A male mouse with one female mouse, will go at it and then his sexual interest will suddenly fall off sharply. Introduce another female and his sexual interest is again piqued. This can go on idefinately and the male mouse never looses interest in sex, as long as its having sex with a different female.
The interesting thing in the article for me was the implication it was not sexual desire for just the available female that was diminished. I assume they made sure at the counseling it was not a case of the grass being greener elsewhere, lovers on the side, trips to Thailand, etc. That would be old hat.

Unless you want to suggest these males desperately lied to keep up an appearance to the therapist they were deeply in love with, secretly?
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Jason »

Pye, who do you think created this (supposed) patriarchy exactly, or how was it created? It seems to me that the average man is largely simply fulfilling the conditioning and gender-expectations that he was born into and inherited. He had no say in it, just as with the average woman. And that has been the state of affairs for countless generations. No one ever consulted me about the running of the patriarchy.

In many a Muslim country where women live under significantly different laws etc to men, the women can often be ardent supporters of that system and its treatment of women. It seems difficult to me, to try to single out one sex as having some sort of upper hand or more responsibility or power in society, when society really seems to equally brainwash everyone, and then both genders equally pass this brainwashing on to the following generation.
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Jason wrote:
Ryan Rudolph wrote:Most men are naturally polygamous,
It surprises me that culture, society, religion, morals, mores etc have so successfully managed to keep a lid on men's sexual desires. Just walk through the average shopping centre(mall) and witness the endless stream of young attractive women in tight and revealing clothing - and then the men continually and reflexively averting their eyes from what they really want to be looking at. Am I wrong when I assume that there is a high level of self-control(or perhaps better "suppression" or "denial") going on here? Elephant in the room anyone?

It isn't just the guys who are struggling to keep a lid on desires. Since women have been let out of the house more since WWII, it is becoming even more common for a female to stray.

On the one hand, I'd say it is fair to assess most humans as naturally polygamous - but on the other hand, this whole jealousy issue between partners also seems quite common - at least in western countries. In polygamous cults, the women interviewed have said that even though they are not jealous of the other wives, it still "feels strange to see your husband going out the door with another woman." I wonder if they would feel better about it if they had the option of going out the door with another man.

Of course is seems to be most often men who get into a murderous rage when they find out that their wife has been cheating. I suspect that women are naturally polygamous, and men are naturally greedy.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Jason wrote: In many a Muslim country where women live under significantly different laws etc to men, the women can often be ardent supporters of that system and its treatment of women.
Speaking from my experience and talks with couples it's quite often the woman who desired the traditional treatment and garments. Even in situations the environment was way more liberal (no peer pressure) the same conviction remained or resurfaced (back to the roots).

The power of the female in fundamentalist traditions within Christianity and Islam, both a major vehicle of patriarchy is surprisingly badly researched. With as consequence the example of regime changes in Afghanistan and Iraq, thought to improve the position of women actually had the opposite effect. By removing a weak, slightly progressive patriarchal structure a more populist, more fundamentalist, more female driven movement rises to power and demands those sets of values that are way less conductive to any male-female equality.
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Pye »

Jason, indeed the average person can but reflect the conditioning into which they are born and exposed. Hence, you will find as many women as men who support the very conditions that entrap them. The above is meant as a reminder of that, for all of us. We lose our memory of origins (as Nietzsche reminds) and when we do so, we consider as nature what is actually conditions - the latter of which are fluid and changeable by us, since humans set them there in the first place. Unless one is a Christian and considers patrician order a natural and communicated demand from Mr. God.

I once wrote here extensively about my own theory of how patriarchy came about (been way out of this loop the last half-year or so), but I don't remember in what thread. Briefly stated, I consider patriarchy to be a conscious social corrective for males to deal with their redundancy in nature. It was the first great handshake of civilization amongst males to cease killing each other for breeding access and instead, order that access to accommodate redundancy. Now each and every male can have his castle and his sex as long as he follows a few simple rules: don't fuck other men's women; don't fuck your daughters; take care of your reproductive issue. To each his own.

It's lost to the memory of many, so questions such as yours get asked. Since females do not face, in nature, the problem of knowing whose children she bears (she bears her own in every case!); nor does she face in nature a dearth of willing partners, there is/was no need for her to secure heavy-handed social order -unless someone withholds actual, living resources from her. This was/is the only playing card for males, in order to secure her complicity in answering to his natural redundancy. Consider the situation that many men bemoan today: she can have her own property/money now; work & care for her own children; pick and choose her mates; in general, not have territory, resources, food, or anything else withheld from her. Many men have returned to the terror of their original redundancy in rejecting this turn of affairs.

The social punishments for this are still flopping tenaciously (and hopefully dying) on the shore: you need a man to uphold your intrinsic worth; you need romance to copulate; there is something wrong with you if you don't love longer and more loyally than men; you are worthless if you fuck around too much; worthless if you don't breed and love motherhood above all else. Also, there is something wrong with a woman who is not obsessed with attracting males, so you'd better get those new implants; wear those cosmetics; and continue to behave in an entirely unthreatening manner to males i.e. boost his ego. Women uninterested in designing their priorities and lives around relationships are considered unnatural (or frigid or lesbian, etc.). In reinforced conditions such as these - with a heap of attention and rewards for complicity - how willing do you think women are to reveal to men their natural selves? What natural selves? Millennia of social conditioning make this mighty hard to locate - for either of us.

How was it originally enforced? Originally superior strength. Female animal who fucks out of line will mostly likely have her young killed or driven off (in the social-setting, ostracized, disinherited, bastardized, along with her own moral character). Male who grows to his own sexual maturity must go seek his own promised land away from that of the alpha-male, or he, too, faces immanent danger.

Lacking makes everything. Had the original lacking been a female one, I am sure matriarchies would have been the order of the day. Man's deficit in nature creates his necessity to extract the difference from her positive account.

Expect a thing to spend its life in a cage of restrictions, and you can bet a heap of Stockholm Syndrome will come to the fore. It's right here, right now. For men and women alike, and all throughout the history of the only social order this species has ever known.

Few are willing, or able, to envision anything else.
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Alex Jacob
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

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Pye wrote:

"I would imagine that any right-thinking male would take pause over the very situation of modernity with which he takes exception. Her access to resources/livelihood without his historic interference places a great and substantial crack in the foundation of patrician breeding practices. She is not stuck with him anymore - not just for her shelter, sustenance, and social inclusion, but for the identity of her children. Yet this thought tends to terrify the modern man, who still sees her sexuality in need of his control, because it is he who needs to know whose is whose; he who demands systematic access. And he, who is rewarded by following the rules of patriarchy by finding a socially sanctioned hole in which to repeat himself ad nauseum . . . . "

It seems to me this best describes the back-drop for the situation described in those articles. Savvy women who have options. There is really not even a great deal to be said about it, except: deal with it.

It seems to me there is something those articles are not mentioning, but that is just an intuitive hit. In England, perhaps in Europe generally, and maybe all over the place for all I know, women's electric masturbation devices have become very popular. Given the extraordinary physical range of female sexual response, a woman can satisfy herself physically with no recourse to a man if she is comfortable using the contraption. The only thing that might be lacking is the emotional satisfaction from a human lover. But physically these machines are making inroads into the whole sexual landscape. If the machines provide a more fulfilling orgasmic experience, what then is the real use of the male partner? Especially if he is seen as any sort of a charge, a burden, a dampening presence? (The 'mediocre' man in those articles). Why in the name of Heaven would a woman, with all options at her fingertips, ever want to return to a more traditional arrangement. It was hardly ever such a nice arrangement for her, in fact.

The traditional women, as Diebert points out, though they seem 'programmed' to resist change (an embedded adaptive quality?), soon get with the program. Once you give 'freedom', or once it is taken, those who are freed rarely look back.

What we seem to see, therefor, is men with a certain 'list of complaints' but all they can do is mope around, complaining a little bit. In the end, their only refuge may indeed be 'depression'.

Personally, I can see very little that is enviable in the American or European man's situation. It seems to me that the advantages have shifted so radically in favor of the woman that one almost has to back out of the game. The GF option is perhaps a good one given the field: simply opt-out of the game altogether and dedicate yourself to 'wisdom'. It's all 'sour grapes' anyway.

The option I chose, personally, is to live in places where this northern brand of liberalism has not yet established itself 'with all the force of the law'. It is now, for me, very difficult even to relate to North American women, of I should say it is essentially distasteful, because there are other 'tastes' to savor. The thought, now, of actually cohabiting with one is not even a possibility, literally. I do understand why viagra becomes, therefor, a necessity for some men. The very best aphrodisiac, I hate to say it, is a 20 year old girl. This must sound terribly regressive, I know, and it has taken some time to clarify my own thinking on the matter. My own mother, a feminist in her day who hung out with some of the major molders of the movement, would likely be ashamed of me!

The 'great joy' of living in Latin America and being with latinas is that, still, many of them really enjoy men. It is as simple as that. They have not been 'trained' (or retrained) to respond negatively to men, with a whole subterranean inner-ocean of bitterness, dissatisfaction. But the truth is, the more sophisticated the women (in all cultures), the more education she has, the better economic circumstances she has, the more she fits the emerging model.

Elizabeth writes:

"Cory and Ryan, I am most interested to see what your opinions will be in 20 years."

I assume these fellows are in their 30s? I am almost 47 and have all-the-time access to women in their 20s. I can't rely on them for 'intellectual companionship', but then (I realized) I never really wanted that anyway: it is always best for men to have other men for intellectual companionship. Maybe my position is what Cory's and Ryan's is after those 20 years have passed? The key is to have your own economic situation established, one that cannot be taken away.

Jason wrote:

"Just walk through the average shopping centre(mall) and witness the endless stream of young attractive women in tight and revealing clothing - and then the men continually and reflexively averting their eyes from what they really want to be looking at."

It is interesting to compare the 'highly civilized environment' to one where this civilizing restrain has not arrived. Living on the Northern Coast of Venezuela in a seaside village for a number of years, mostly Black but close enough to Caracas for a steady stream of Latinos and Europeans travelers, completely changed my outlook on life, literally. No 'cap' has been put on anything, no response was concealed or disguised, everything open and naked. The 'law' had not yet arrived. Horribly regressive again, no doubt, but I grew to love it. But to talk about that, of course, is to talk about 'life as it really is' or can be, which we don't like to do on the GF, so highly civilized it is.

Carl wrote:

"The elephant called Girllusion. It's a bitch."

Turning off the switch is one option, it's true.
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Elizabeth Isabelle
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Alex Jacob wrote:I assume these fellows are in their 30s? I am almost 47 and have all-the-time access to women in their 20s. I can't rely on them for 'intellectual companionship', but then (I realized) I never really wanted that anyway: it is always best for men to have other men for intellectual companionship.
Those fellows are in their 20's, so yeah, your perspective may be much like theirs will be.

What do you think of women your age? Can you even generalize women your age, or do you find them distinct enough to need to be categorized?
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by maestro »

Alex Jacob wrote:I assume these fellows are in their 30s? I am almost 47 and have all-the-time access to women in their 20s.
How come? Are you running a brothel?
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Relo »

maestro wrote:
Alex Jacob wrote:I assume these fellows are in their 30s? I am almost 47 and have all-the-time access to women in their 20s.
How come? Are you running a brothel?
That could be the case for any public scenery, such as a shopping mall or what not, if it was a question.
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by brokenhead »

xerox wrote:A male mouse with one female mouse, will go at it and then his sexual interest will suddenly fall off sharply. Introduce another female and his sexual interest is again piqued. This can go on idefinately and the male mouse never looses interest in sex, as long as its having sex with a different female.
Maybe it doesn't have to be a different female. Just put a teensie little blonde wig on her and see what happens...
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by brokenhead »

If the machines provide a more fulfilling orgasmic experience, what then is the real use of the male partner?
The sybian can't mow the lawn.
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Re: Depression, Sex & Freemales

Post by Alex Jacob »

Pye wrote:

"The above is meant as a reminder of that, for all of us. We lose our memory of origins (as Nietzsche reminds) and when we do so, we consider as nature what is actually conditions - the latter of which are fluid and changeable by us, since humans set them there in the first place. Unless one is a Christian and considers patrician order a natural and communicated demand from Mr. God."

The Christian god as an artificial construct, invented by patrician culture to support patrician desires and goals. Yes, so far so good. But interestingly, if there is a 'god' (and anyway one can just interchange the word 'nature') s/he established as part of the natural order vast differences between men and women, and radically different reproductive roles. I'd almost take a Mr God over a Madame Nature. Just an interesting point to consider.

It is the contrived social order that would allow for modern feminist notions (and mores and laws) to arise, which is also something to consider.

It is likely 'patrician' as well, but in terms of 'naturalistic philosophy', a philosophy that supposedly is based on an 'objective' view of nature, some Chinese philosophy speaks of a 'natural categorization' that is inevitable, and therefor assigns specific roles to man and women, roles that must be upheld. There is also the vedic idea of 'rta' which is sort of 'natural order' to all thing, and an attempt to model social arrangements on this, supposedly, solid and unalterable base.

The present arrangements, which have so many ramifications, has come about as a result of a giant shift in contrivances. Yet it could be argued that it is quite frail. A change of circumstances, a change in fortune, could change the whole contrivance.
____________________________________

Elizabeth,

If there are categories, they are cultural categories. These days, I find I have so very little in common with my own culture generally, both masculine and feminine, that there is effectively no relationship. Most of the women I knew in my university days, by and large, held and may still hold a general view pretty similar to Pye's. All of them have made some adaptations to the 'present order' to be able to get what they need to live. Some are now relatively 'conservative' in terms of their choices and their attitudes, others more radical.

Maestro,

No, no brothel. The places I live do not place such harsh restrictions on associations between the ages. American culture seems particularly harsh in this. These cultures are also generally (statistically) much younger.
Ni ange, ni bête
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