Re-establishing fundamentals
- Trevor Salyzyn
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Re-establishing fundamentals
What are the most important fundamentals of thought? How does one take the quickest, most direct, path from philosophic and spiritual ignorance to total, perfect enlightenment? What tools and what virtues are necessary for the task?
Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
The fundamental of thought is that it is a system. Thought is not in the individual, but is in the whole of a group or society at once. It is shared meaning. Thought is not merely verbal, but is part of the body and emotions and perception. Thought tries to represent perception (description) and actively modifies perception. Most thought is in the form of a reflex, that is activated when certain environmental conditions (for its arising) are created. Stress arises when the system is in conflict with itself, which generally happens when thought forms inaccurate descriptions of the world.Trevor Salyzyn wrote:What are the most important fundamentals of thought?
The quickest and most direct path is to be aware of the activity of the whole system of thought (that is verbal emotional and perceptual). To strive to see clearly how this system works. After gaining this knowledge to end the conflict in the system.Trevor Salyzyn wrote:How does one take the quickest, most direct, path from philosophic and spiritual ignorance to total, perfect enlightenment?
Patience perseverance and logic. Ability to handle stress and emotional strain. Desire for truth above all else.Trevor Salyzyn wrote:What tools and what virtues are necessary for the task?
Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
Trevor,
Honesty and impartiality are a good place to start.What are the most important fundamentals of thought?
Reading this after your previous question, you seem to imply that thinking is what takes one to enlightenment. Right thinking may help set the stage but there is no kind of thinking in itself that constitutes enlightenment. Thinking is a tool, not an end.How does one take the quickest, most direct, path from philosophic and spiritual ignorance to total, perfect enlightenment?
Well the first prerequisite is to have some stability of mind. The five precepts (no lying, no stealing, no harming, no sexual misconduct, no drugs) are offered as a means to achieve that. With stability of mind, awareness of thinking becomes a possibility. Without that, you simply become identified with the thought process and thus unable to transcend it. With awareness of thinking, the ego can become an object of inquiry, am I the body/mind or is there something else? Self-inquiry coupled with a willingness to surrender, i.e. take the ego down a notch from its lofty perch in everyday life, is the well-worn path to enlightenment.What tools and what virtues are necessary for the task?
- RobertGreenSky
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Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
'the well-worn path to enlightenment.' - Sam
If there really was a well-worn path we could buy it in a book or perhaps instead in a set of CDs or DVDs with handsome covers and interesting art and we would all be enlightened at one low price payable in four easy installments. There being no well-worn path there can be no quickest way to travel it.
Sam is likely right however about 'preparation'. I think he is also right about this:
You can learn how thinking is viewed in Buddhism in many different sources including Madhyamaka which is the school developed from Nagarjuna.
Note: I do not have Sam's permission to agree with him and so do not let my agreement taint him here at GF.
If there really was a well-worn path we could buy it in a book or perhaps instead in a set of CDs or DVDs with handsome covers and interesting art and we would all be enlightened at one low price payable in four easy installments. There being no well-worn path there can be no quickest way to travel it.
Sam is likely right however about 'preparation'. I think he is also right about this:
Sam wrote:
... you seem to imply that thinking is what takes one to enlightenment. Right thinking may help set the stage but there is no kind of thinking in itself that constitutes enlightenment. Thinking is a tool, not an end.
You can learn how thinking is viewed in Buddhism in many different sources including Madhyamaka which is the school developed from Nagarjuna.
Note: I do not have Sam's permission to agree with him and so do not let my agreement taint him here at GF.
- Alex Jacob
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Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
[Funny, you are talking about a thing that is completely undefined. I mean none of you have defined it. Or have I simply not yet seen the Wiki page that defines 'enlightenment'?]
Ni ange, ni bête
- Dan Rowden
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Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
It's obvious that enlightenment is not a "thought state" whilst necessarily excluding delusional thought states.
- RobertGreenSky
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Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
'Enlightenment', Mr. Jacob, is something I try to avoid mentioning. And no sir, I do not believe in it. Beliefs are not necessary, I don't believe.
- RobertGreenSky
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Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
Whilst it is thinking about what is 'not a "thought state"', that's an intriguing idea.Dan Rowden wrote:It's obvious that enlightenment is not a "thought state" whilst necessarily excluding delusional thought states.
- Dan Rowden
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Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
I suggest you just aren't paying attention, busy as you are constructing and telling stories.Alex Jacob wrote:[Funny, you are talking about a thing that is completely undefined. I mean none of you have defined it. Or have I simply not yet seen the Wiki page that defines 'enlightenment'?]
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Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
That is simple. One only has to make becoming enlightened the most important thing in one's life and the path will then be revealed.Trevor Salyzyn wrote:How does one take the quickest, most direct, path from philosophic and spiritual ignorance to total, perfect enlightenment?
Single-mindedness, perseverance, unwillingness to compromise, courage, &c.What tools and what virtues are necessary for the task?
Hope this helps.
- Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
maestro,
samadhi,
Greg,
Is the stress in the whole of a group at once?The fundamental of thought is that it is a system. Thought is not in the individual, but is in the whole of a group or society at once....
...Stress arises when the system is in conflict with itself, which generally happens when thought forms inaccurate descriptions of the world.
samadhi,
Is thinking a necessary tool?Right thinking may help set the stage but there is no kind of thinking in itself that constitutes enlightenment. Thinking is a tool, not an end.
...no wonder I have so much difficulty with enlightenment when I have an episode.Well the first prerequisite is to have some stability of mind.
Greg,
Before making enlightenment the most important thing in my life: what is enlightenment?That is simple. One only has to make becoming enlightened the most important thing in one's life and the path will then be revealed.
It does. Everyone seems to agree on those virtues.Single-mindedness, perseverance, unwillingness to compromise, courage, &c.
Hope this helps.
Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
Indeed conflict in the society, disturbance in the emotions, contradiction in the description.Trevor Salyzyn wrote: Is the stress in the whole of a group at once?
Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
Trevor,
Whether it's necessary or not depends on your path.sam: Right thinking may help set the stage but there is no kind of thinking in itself that constitutes enlightenment. Thinking is a tool, not an end.
Trevor: Is thinking a necessary tool?
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Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
That is for you to define, but I would say that it is Directly Understanding Reality.Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Before making enlightenment the most important thing in my life: what is enlightenment?
Greg Shantz wrote:Single-mindedness, perseverance, unwillingness to compromise, courage, &c.
Hope this helps.
With good reason!It does. Everyone seems to agree on those virtues.
Re: Re-establishing fundamentals
Questioning.Trevor Salyzyn wrote:What are the most important fundamentals of thought?
Acceptance.Trevor Salyzyn wrote:How does one take the quickest, most direct, path from philosophic and spiritual ignorance to total, perfect enlightenment?
Observation.Trevor Salyzyn wrote:What tools and what virtues are necessary for the task?